# The Trump Administration: A Clusterfuck in the Making **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 7, 2016, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070 "2016-12-07T00:25:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 101
**Author:** ![ckalli1998](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a3d4f5/32.png) [@ckalli1998](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ckalli1998)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2017, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/2001 "2017-03-09T18:37:01Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > That’s how socialized health care is funded too, and that’s public as well. So are you now saying that isn’t socialist either? > > You have no idea what socialism is do you? Socialism means common social ownership, by which the government mandates the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole. In this case, Canada clearly has socialized health-care. Also, QuickSilver, I never claimed that Canada was socialist because Trudeau didn’t let pro-life people run on his party line, I claimed he was an ultraliberal leftist because of that ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2017, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/2002 "2017-03-09T18:38:19Z")
> [@ckalli1998](#): > > Public libraries are not products of socialism, WTF? They can’t be consider socialist in any way. They are funded by taxpayer dollars and are public, however that is not synonymous with socialism The best health care system in America - the one military veterans like me got when we were active duty - is socialized. You’re demonstrating that you don’t actually know what socialized means. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2017, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/2003 "2017-03-09T18:40:05Z")
> [@ckalli1998](#): > > Socialism means common social ownership, by which the government mandates the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole. > > In this case, Canada clearly has socialized health-care. > > Also, QuickSilver, I never claimed that Canada was socialist because Trudeau didn’t let pro-life people run on his party line, I claimed he was an ultraliberal leftist because of that That first paragraph describes libraries, fire fighting, law enforcement, the military and military health care, and many other aspects of American society. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2017, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/2004 "2017-03-09T18:44:49Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Well, based on that, you’re either trolling or so far removed from reason/knowledge that I have little expectation of productive conversation with you. It’ll just be mockery from me, if anything, for the near future. No, he’s right. We’re a socialist country. As soon as my soulless grey jumpsuit arrives in the mail we’re off to burn down the TSX. See you there? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2017, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/2005 "2017-03-09T18:46:31Z")
Public schools: Won’t anybody think of those millions of socialist children?! ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2017, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/2006 "2017-03-09T18:50:42Z")
> [@ckalli1998](#): > > Also, QuickSilver, I never claimed that Canada was socialist because Trudeau didn’t let pro-life people run on his party line, I claimed he was an ultraliberal leftist because of that We just call it the Liberal Party. ---
**Author:** ![ckalli1998](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a3d4f5/32.png) [@ckalli1998](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ckalli1998)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2017, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/2007 "2017-03-09T18:51:46Z")
> [@The\_Tooth](#): > > No, he’s right. We’re a socialist country. As soon as my soulless grey jumpsuit arrives in the mail we’re off to burn down the TSX. See you there? Wrong. There is a fundamental way in which the library is not socialist: the production of goods. While some libraries do indeed produce books (a trend that will grow), and it could be argued that the provision of public space and programs is often “produced” by library staff, the overwhelming stock of the library is and will continue to be produced by others: mainly individuals, but also (as in newspapers, magazines, and electronic resources) by corporations. The public sector invests in the private; the private sector (through taxes and philanthropy) invests in the public. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2017, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/2008 "2017-03-09T18:52:19Z")
> [@ckalli1998](#): > > Canada has universal, _socialized_ healthcare, which entails massive government involvement and is one of the tenets of socialism. Pointing this out doesn’t make me a troll or removed from reality. No, it just makes you wrong. ---
**Author:** ![tonyfop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/85f322/32.png) [@tonyfop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tonyfop)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2017, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/2009 "2017-03-09T18:52:52Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > The best health care system in America - the one military veterans like me got when we were active duty - is socialized. You’re demonstrating that you don’t actually know what socialized means. ??? The best health care system in America? The most convenient, maybe, but not the best. At best I found the care inconsistent. I had no control over my PCM, so I had good ones, and bad ones, and no ability to switch. Same with my family when they were seen at the Military clinic or hospital. We had a pediatrician who was the greatest doctor ever, then we also had terrible doctors, and no ability to change. ---
**Author:** ![ckalli1998](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a3d4f5/32.png) [@ckalli1998](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ckalli1998)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2017, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/2010 "2017-03-09T18:53:11Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > No, it just makes you wrong. Is this fucktard really denying Canada has socialized healthcare? LOL ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2017, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/2011 "2017-03-09T18:54:13Z")
> [@ckalli1998](#): > > The public sector invests in the private; the private sector (through taxes and philanthropy) invests in the public. That sounds very much like the Canadian Healthcare system. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2017, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/2012 "2017-03-09T18:57:09Z")
> [@tonyfop](#): > > ??? The best health care system in America? The most convenient, maybe, but not the best. At best I found the care inconsistent. I had no control over my PCM, so I had good ones, and bad ones, and no ability to switch. Same with my family when they were seen at the Military clinic or hospital. We had a pediatrician who was the greatest doctor ever, then we also had terrible doctors, and no ability to change. Very different than my experience, but active duty military has very good health outcomes, in my understanding, and everyone gets coverage and care with low waiting times. Veterans care sucks, but not active duty, despite both being socialized. ---
**Author:** ![ckalli1998](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a3d4f5/32.png) [@ckalli1998](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ckalli1998)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2017, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/2013 "2017-03-09T18:58:52Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > That sounds very much like the Canadian Healthcare system. Wrong. We’ve always had a mixed economy where social programs have been a major part. The problem is how to keep check on the ever growing demand for entitlements. When government, a non productive sector of society drains valuable resources or as we call it, “misallocates capital” from the productive sector, the section that creates value, there is always a downturn. Welfare reform is an example of a check on entitlements that kept resources in the private sector. Of course, if you’re a socialist you don’t believe in property rights so all this means nothing since no one “owns” anything. ---
**Author:** ![Punoqllads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d2c977/32.png) [@Punoqllads](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Punoqllads)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2017, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/2014 "2017-03-09T19:14:02Z")
> [@ckalli1998](#): > > There is a fundamental way in which the library is not socialist: the production of goods. What goods does a hospital produce? ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2017, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/2015 "2017-03-09T19:19:06Z")
Can we not let the troll derail this perfectly cromulent thread on Trump’s clusterfuckery? You want to debate the definition of socialism and merits of universal healthcare, open your own thread. I come in here for two things: To chew gum and laugh at the fat orange orangutan in the Oval Office. Now I’m out of gum, and you’re all getting in the way of the fucking orangutan. ---
**Author:** ![ckalli1998](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a3d4f5/32.png) [@ckalli1998](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ckalli1998)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2017, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/2016 "2017-03-09T19:20:17Z")
> [@Punoqllads](#): > > What goods does a hospital produce? A hospital is not socialist; it prodouces and provides goods and services to treat patients with curative, preventive, rehabilitative, and palliative care ---
**Author:** ![ckalli1998](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a3d4f5/32.png) [@ckalli1998](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ckalli1998)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2017, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/2017 "2017-03-09T19:21:59Z")
Let me be perfectly clear on what I mean when I use the term “ultraliberal leftist” and the like. In my opinion, ultraliberal leftists are represented by the Pelosi-Schumer-Reid-Obama-Warren wing of the Democratic Party, while its moderate side is represented by Jon Tester, Heidi Hetkamp, and Joe Manchin. An ultraconservative, in my view, would be represented by people like the late Antonin Scalia, Sens. Mike Lee, Marco Rubio, Rand Paul, John Cornyn, and the Republican Study Committee and House Freedom Caucus. The Marxist government would be described by me as being hard-leftist. Note, I was using “ultraliberal leftist” only in connection with American politics compared to other political parties in the U.S., not with center-right parties in Europe. The U.K. Conservative Party, for example, is much more liberal than its American counterpart, the Republican Party. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2017, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/2018 "2017-03-09T19:26:28Z")
> [@ckalli1998](#): > > A hospital is not socialist; it prodouces and provides goods and services to treat patients with curative, preventive, rehabilitative, and palliative care The bit before the semicolon has no relation to the bit after the semicolon. It’s like saying “A penguin is not a bird; it has black upper parts and white underparts and wings developed into flippers for swimming under water.” ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2017, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/2019 "2017-03-09T19:29:31Z")
> [@Punoqllads](#): > > What goods does a hospital produce? Babies? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2017, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/2020 "2017-03-09T19:31:02Z")
> [@ckalli1998](#): > > Is this fucktard really denying Canada has socialized healthcare? LOL Ha, you doubled down on your wrongness. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=100) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=102)