# The Trump Administration: A Clusterfuck in the Making **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 7, 2016, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070 "2016-12-07T00:25:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1013
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/20245 "2018-05-11T14:24:07Z")
[Fact: Most people join the military to help pay for college.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0) ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/20246 "2018-05-11T14:30:47Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > [Fact: Most people join the military to help pay for college.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0) God damn you!!! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/20247 "2018-05-11T14:37:00Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Let’s see. > > Morgenstern - “Unicorns are real and they run the government” > > Me - “I’m fairly certain that’s not true” > > Morgenstern - “Oh yeah? Prove it!” > > :rolleyes: More like; “I don’t think so” Everyone else says; “LOL, wrong again.” ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/20248 "2018-05-11T15:32:58Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > More like; > “I don’t think so” > Everyone else says; > “LOL, wrong again.” Well, if by “Everyone else says” you mean a few anonymous posters on a message board and a paper from 1998, then sure, you’re right. Congrats! ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/20249 "2018-05-11T15:51:07Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Well, if by “Everyone else says” you mean a few anonymous posters on a message board and a paper from 1998, then sure, you’re right. Congrats! fwiw, there’s even less evidence that the assertion is inaccurate. Why not reserve judgment rather than decide that it’s inaccurate? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/20250 "2018-05-11T15:52:55Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > You wouldn’t happen to have any statistical studies to support that assertion about the actual reason, would you? > [@Slash1972](#): > > Sorry, but I’m fairly certain that this is not actually true. Doing a bit of digging… Nope. I tried to find a breakdown of the family wealth of recruits, but pretty much came up empty on that. So, I can only go be the anecdotal data that, out of the people that I knew that served in the military, nearly all did so because of the college opportunities. Now, the fact that I met most of them in college may skew that a bit. But, had they not joined the military, I wouldn’t have met them there. Even for those who could “afford” it, it is still a massive burden either on their family or on their future earning potential in paying off student loans for a decade or more, so, while it may not be necessary, it is still a major motivating factor. That said, I am willing to change the “most”, to “many”, and I don’t see how that would change my point in the slightest. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/20251 "2018-05-11T15:58:20Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > That said, I am willing to change the “most”, to “many”, and I don’t see how that would change my point in the slightest. How about “some”? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/20252 "2018-05-11T16:46:31Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > not some insignificant little country in the middle of nowhere. Bordering China and South Korea and near Japan is the “middle of nowhere”? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/20253 "2018-05-11T16:55:48Z")
> [@PatriotX](#): > > fwiw, there’s even less evidence that the assertion is inaccurate. > > Why not reserve judgment rather than decide that it’s inaccurate? Let’s see. PatriotX - “Most people join the military because they get a free pony for enlisting” Me - “Sorry, but I don’t think that’s true” PatriotX - “Prove me wrong!” :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/20254 "2018-05-11T17:21:13Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > If you want to treat “Most people join the military because that’s the only way to pay for college” the same as “College incentives are in the top 10 of reasons given” then feel free. > > Also note, that link is a paper from 1998. This [2011 Pew study](http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2011/10/05/chapter-3-fighting-a-decade-long-war/) of post-9/11 veterans seems to support the assertion that most people join the military for the educational benefits > [@](#): > > Recent veterans are more likely than those from earlier eras to say they joined to get educational benefits (75% vs. 55% say it was an important reason). This [2014 report](https://ticas.org/sites/default/files/pub_files/Debt_Facts_and_Sources.pdf) from the Institute for College Access & Success indicates that 71% of 4-year college graduates carry student loan debt. Perhaps “it’s the _only_ way” to pay for college is not exactly accurate, but it’s not a huge jump to surmise that most military recruits consider the educational benefits they receive as preferable to usual method of assuming debt to obtain a college degree. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/20255 "2018-05-11T17:23:47Z")
> [@Knowed\_Out](#): > > He’s got big lecterns too. Only the biggest. and he’s got … huge … tracts of land! ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/20256 "2018-05-11T17:26:09Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Wait, were the Red Lecterns the bad guys in _Buckaroo Banzai_? No silly, they are part of the “DC Universe”… Green Lecterns, Yellow Lecterns, Black Lecterns, and Red lecterns. It’s got something to do with Hal Jordan and Sinestro. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/20257 "2018-05-11T17:28:02Z")
> [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](#): > > This [2011 Pew study](http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2011/10/05/chapter-3-fighting-a-decade-long-war/) of post-9/11 veterans seems to support the assertion that most people join the military for the educational benefits According to that chart, 88% of people said “To serve my country”. So, most people joined the military to serve their country. Would you consider that statement accurate or not? > [@](#): > > Perhaps “it’s the _only_ way” to pay for college is not exactly accurate, but it’s not a huge jump to surmise that most military recruits consider the educational benefits they receive as preferable to usual method of assuming debt to obtain a college degree. I am positive that most military recruits consider the educational benefits they receive as preferable to usual method of assuming debt to obtain a college degree. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/20258 "2018-05-11T17:35:59Z")
When a young man or woman is considering joining the military, it would not surprise me that college help was in the top ten reasons. It would surprise me that there _are_ ten reasons. Back in the day, when I studied this question by kerosene lamp, young men would join the Air Force so they wouldn’t get drafted into the Army. The Coast Guard had a waiting list. Even the Texas Air National Guard was very, _very_ selective. Protecting the skies above Amarillo from Viet Cong aircraft. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/20259 "2018-05-11T17:53:37Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > How about “some”? How about “75%”? You’re nitpicking about bullshit. Stop hijacking the thread, you nitwit. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/20260 "2018-05-11T17:57:43Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Sorry, but I’m fairly certain that this is not actually true. I joined the Air Force because I had a low draft number and there was this little thing going on in Vietnam. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/20261 "2018-05-11T18:03:02Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > How about “75%”? > > You’re nitpicking about bullshit. Stop hijacking the thread, you nitwit. I blame the Trump Administration for the willful misuse of statistics as evidenced by the declaration that 75% of people join the military because that was the only way to pay for college! How’s that? Anything? Carry on the Administration bashing I guess. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/20262 "2018-05-11T18:03:34Z")
Holy shit this nit-picky semantic discussion of why people join the military is the most inane hijack of a thread I’ve ever seen. And that’s saying something. ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/20263 "2018-05-11T18:05:44Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > According to that chart, 88% of people said “To serve my country”. So, most people joined the military to serve their country. Would you consider that statement accurate or not? It helps if you actually read the study as opposed to getting all your information from the pictures: > [@](#): > > **Ask veterans of any era why they joined, and the answer is usually the same: to serve their country**. Nearly nine-in-ten post-9/11 veterans (88%) and a slightly larger share of those who served before the terrorist attacks (93%) say that serving their country was an important reason they joined the military. > > **Recent veterans are more likely than those from earlier eras to say they joined to get educational benefits (75% vs. 55% say it was an important reason).** You implied that a study from 1998 was not current enough. This one specifically refers to the reasons that more recent veterans give and now you’ve decided that you like the statistics that include the reasons older veterans gave. Which is it? As to the percentages, would you agree that recruits often cite multiple reasons for joining which is why 88% and 75% exceed 100% and, further, that one reason doesn’t negate another? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/20264 "2018-05-11T18:08:05Z")
> [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](#): > > It helps if you actually read the study as opposed to getting all your information from the pictures: > > You implied that a study from 1998 was not current enough. This one specifically refers to the reasons that more recent veterans give and now you’ve decided that you like the statistics that include the reasons older veterans gave. Which is it? As to the percentages, would you agree that recruits often cite multiple reasons for joining which is why 88% and 75% exceed 100% and, further, that one reason doesn’t negate another? What are you talking about? It clearly says “Nearly nine-in-ten **post-9/11** veterans (88%)” (bolding mine). That is a reason newer veterans gave. 88% of them. Like I said. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=1012) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=1014)