# The Trump Administration: A Clusterfuck in the Making **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 7, 2016, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070 "2016-12-07T00:25:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1085
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2018, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/21685 "2018-06-18T03:37:53Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > I just watched this movie, _The Post_, and let me tell you, some of the shit in that thing was damn unnerving. There was a line in there about the President trying to shut down the press because he did not like what they were saying. This from the mid '70s, but it spoke to today in a way that really creeped me out. Watch All the President’s Men next. It opens exactly where The Post leaves off, with the Watergate burglary. The last scene of The Post is the first scene of ATPM (which I’ve watched at least 10 times since thump was elected). Jason Robards is a better Ben Bradlee than Tom Hanks. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2018, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/21686 "2018-06-18T04:12:20Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > I hear you about the fears some white people cherish, of being “overrun” by the non-whites. As a white person myself I recall reading, probably as a young teen, that whites wouldn’t continue to be the majority in the USA; that decades hence, we’d be a minority. I suppose every white person hears that at some point in their development. > > And some react with “hell no, I will die first.” But others react with “there’s no way to keep that from happening that wouldn’t also destroy both my soul, and the principles this nation was founded on. So: I’ll adjust. My tribe is the human species, not The Whites, so: I’ll adjust.” > > The people you describe are the “I will die first” folks–I get that. > > What I’m saying is that _even for those people_, the truth that Trump is an insecure cowardly weakling will matter----if they are forced to look at that truth time and time and time again. > > Yes, they will ignore it and call it fake news, the first many times it’s put in front of them. But as time goes on and they keep seeing more and more evidence, some will…be affected. Perhaps the most virulent haters won’t, but many others will. And even the most virulent haters won’t be thrilled to see Trump’s insecure cowardly weakness highlighted each time it recurs. (And it recurs a _lot_.) > > Ask them how they feel about the question of WHO is paying for The Wall. Trump was supposed to be the Big Dog who would make Mexico pay! But…he was too weak. Too weak. _Too weak_. > > Ask them how they feel about that. Regarding the Tea Party and Trump, I’ve said before that a lot of people were dissatisfied with those they voted for while they were mad, so they voted for someone while they were furious and expected him to be better. If you can make those people dissatisfied with Trump, do you really want to see who they vote for next? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2018, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/21687 "2018-06-18T04:12:49Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > President Chump makes Nixon look like Lincoln. I lived through the Nixon years. I thought his re-election was the low point in US politics until the election of Trump. Nixon was a monster, but I think he genuinely cared about the US and the welfare of its citizens, which is more than I can say for Trump. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2018, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/21688 "2018-06-18T04:25:23Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Watch All the President’s Men next. The fuck do you take me for, some kind of masochist? I lived through that shit. I came home from school every day, went downstairs and sat in front of Archibald Cox/Leon Jaworski on the 19" B/W TV we had in the rec room. It was a fucked-up confusing time that I think would be better off in the back of the bottom drawer, next to what we are facing today. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2018, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/21689 "2018-06-18T04:40:43Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > I lived through the Nixon years. I thought his re-election was the low point in US politics until the election of Trump. Nixon was a monster, but I think he genuinely cared about the US and the welfare of its citizens, which is more than I can say for Trump. Trump is either an anarchist and/or a traitor. Nixon was evil but he was neither an anarchist nor jumping to the call of our nation’s two strongest competitors (to be charitable). I grew up with Nixon and came of age with Reagan. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2018, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/21690 "2018-06-18T04:59:03Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > I’ve spoken with Trump supporters. I’ve been reluctant to bring this up, as I didn’t want to be accused of doing the I’m-Not-Saying-It-They-Are bit; but what the hell. > > Their POV: we’re at war. There are, if you will, bad hombres who want to come across our border and Do Bad Things. And there are some folks here who want to wave those enemies of America in. And there are some folks here who don’t. > […] > And if that’s so, then _why would his supporters care_ about the size of his hands, or his sensitivity about that? Or about Ivy League credentials, or lack thereof? Or about him scrapping the visit of a sports team? He’s trying to keep the enemies of America _out,_ while other folks want to let them _in,_ and _ain’t the rest trivia?_ The thing is, if it were _just_ that, then I’d get it. I’d disagree obviously but I’d at least understand the psychology. But trump does and says at least 2-3 things a week that should be utterly disqualifying. That anyone with principles, and any interest in truth and credibility should find appalling. But his supporters don’t care about e.g. contradicting themselves and handwaving something that they claimed was the more important principle last week. Dear Leader can do no wrong. It’s more than just “I hate brown people, so I like the cut of this racist’s jib”. It really is some kind of cult. That’s why it’s scary. Where does it end? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2018, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/21691 "2018-06-18T07:30:34Z")
The thing is, we’re not actually at war, no matter how much the trumpers want to pretend we are. As for their bigotry, Trevor Noah put it best. He said that they don’t mind being bigots; they just hate being called bigots. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2018, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/21692 "2018-06-18T08:02:32Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > No one can live with their fingers in their ears full-time. Someone should have notified my maternal grandmother, she never got the memo. And re. manipulation by Russia: welcome to Spain from the 1960s until… well, until I’ll let you know if I ever see it. So far we’ve managed to survive, we’ll see how we all do. > [@asahi](#): > > The US of Trump is going to nuke its benefactor, which would promise the end of our country and existence in return? > > Oooooookaaaaaay.:rolleyes: The biggest thing keeping Trump from hitting the Big Red Button while saying “what does this do?” is that it’s in fact not a Big Red Button; it’s a little more complicated than that. Who knew nuclear launch codes would be so complicated? ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2018, 9:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/21693 "2018-06-18T09:03:13Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Certainly I believe it. They are fascists; that sort of rhetoric is classic xenophobic fascist talk. > > What they _want_ is to kill everyone on Earth who isn’t exactly like them, as painfully and slowly as possible. They don’t care that Trump is scum, because _they_ are scum. They don’t care that he’s hurting innocent people, because _they_ want to hurt innocent people. They don’t care that Trump is hurting them too, because their hate matters more than life itself to them. > > The ultimate goal of a Trump supporter is to be the last fanatic left alive on a world of corpses. I will back this up, although a little extreme, but I won’t believe any trumpeter that claims they think the immigration laws are wrong. Or the ones who actually-- and I will never understand why-- think he is brilliant because he’s rich. (He’s not either.) A dozen trump supporters standing over smoldering land from sea to shining sea would call it a victory, 'cause the others ain’t left anymore. Win-win. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2018, 10:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/21694 "2018-06-18T10:33:51Z")
I don’t doubt that Trump would nuke a country, just not Russia. There’s just no conceivable way he does that unless you believe he has severe dementia already. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2018, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/21695 "2018-06-18T12:32:10Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > I lived through the Nixon years. I thought his re-election was the low point in US politics until the election of Trump. Nixon was a monster, but I think he genuinely cared about the US and the welfare of its citizens, which is more than I can say for Trump. This. Nixon may have been a monster but he was _our_ monster. Trump is nothing but unbridled Id, a three-year old in a power tie. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2018, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/21696 "2018-06-18T12:39:25Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > The fuck do you take me for, some kind of masochist? I lived through that shit. I came home from school every day, went downstairs and sat in front of Archibald Cox/Leon Jaworski on the 19" B/W TV we had in the rec room. It was a fucked-up confusing time that I think would be better off in the back of the bottom drawer, next to what we are facing today. I was 25 during the Watergate hearings and came home from work every day to watch John Dean testifying. That time does not belong in the back of a drawer–it belongs right out in front, if only because so many people are alive today who weren’t (or who were toddlers) when it happened. They don’t remember the audible sigh of relief that swept across the country when Gerald Ford was sworn in as President. I think you would find watching All the President’s Men uplifting and inspiring, if only to see what relentless, driven investigative journalism can accomplish. It’s a wonderful movie that keeps you on the edge of your seat even though you know exactly how it comes out. And when you watch it, go to the IMDB and read the trivia section. Next, watch Mark Felt, about the man who was Deep Throat. A whole 'nother perspective on those times. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2018, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/21697 "2018-06-18T14:16:27Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Regarding the Tea Party and Trump, I’ve said before that a lot of people were dissatisfied with those they voted for while they were mad, so they voted for someone while they were furious and expected him to be better. > > If you can make those people dissatisfied with Trump, do you really want to see who they vote for next? My thoughts exactly. Next up would be Stephan Miller. Trump is not quite enough of a Nazi for them. A good first step though. [Work safe, but view at your own risk](https://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images?p=steven+miller+trump+advisor&fr=yfp-t-s&imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.foxbusiness.com%2FBrightCove%2F854081161001%2F201603%2F231%2F854081161001_4822153933001_032916-rr-miller1.jpg%3FpubId%3D854081161001#id=2&iurl=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.foxbusiness.com%2FBrightCove%2F854081161001%2F201603%2F231%2F854081161001_4822153933001_032916-rr-miller1.jpg%3FpubId%3D854081161001&action=click) ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2018, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/21698 "2018-06-18T15:12:46Z")
> [@Club\_33](#): > > And Trump is the guy God warns us about. This part I think is actually true. At least, the Bible does warn of people like Trump. There’s a reason I sometimes call him “an anti-Christ.” You can’t get more diametrically opposed to Jesus’s teachings than him. Fundamentalists aren’t even close, since they still believe in at least the concept of kindness. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2018, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/21699 "2018-06-18T15:21:58Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > This. Nixon may have been a monster but he was _our_ monster. Trump is nothing but unbridled Id, a three-year old in a power tie. I think Nixon believed in occasional presidential excesses because he believed that the ends justified the means. As you and Colibri have said, I think that Nixon’s ends were ultimately a passionate (even if bordering on psychotic), patriotic love for America - or at least his version of it. Trump is a pathological narcissist, whose end game is to enrich himself and his family. And now that the federal government has him and his clan in its cross hairs, and now that he has a congress that has abdicated its constitutional role as a check on his power, he views the United States government as an existential threat to his existence, and is determined to destroy it (as we’ve known it, anyway). ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2018, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/21700 "2018-06-18T15:26:01Z")
Even [the Mooch has a limit](http://thehill.com/latino/392738-scaramucci-trump-should-stop-atrocious-policy-of-separating-families): > [@](#): > > Former White House communications director Anthony Scaramucci on Monday slammed the Trump administration’s “zero tolerance” policy of removing children from their families at the southwest border, calling it “inhumane” and “cruel”… ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2018, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/21701 "2018-06-18T15:42:08Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > I was 25 during the Watergate hearings and came home from work every day to watch John Dean testifying. That time does not belong in the back of a drawer–it belongs right out in front, if only because so many people are alive today who weren’t (or who were toddlers) when it happened. They don’t remember the audible sigh of relief that swept across the country when Gerald Ford was sworn in as President. > > I think you would find watching All the President’s Men uplifting and inspiring, if only to see what relentless, driven investigative journalism can accomplish. It’s a wonderful movie that keeps you on the edge of your seat even though you know exactly how it comes out. And when you watch it, go to the IMDB and read the trivia section. > > Next, watch Mark Felt, about the man who was Deep Throat. A whole 'nother perspective on those times. In both of these examples, we had two important institutions to protect us from this madness: a robust and professional free press, and federal institutions such as the FBI. We also had a congress that acted as a check on unconstitutional usurpation of power by the President. I don’t know if the same can be said today. Going back to the issue of the family separations at the border for a moment, it is imperative that ordinary citizens understand the dangerous signal that is being sent. Healthy democracies and libertarian societies don’t act with such cruelty - those are symptoms of societies that encourage authoritarianism and the abuse of human rights. Such abuse might start with “illegal aliens;” it can end with university professors, journalists, or other enemies of the state, who say things people in power don’t want others to hear. All it would take is the modern equivalent of the red scare. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2018, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/21702 "2018-06-18T16:34:33Z")
It’s official: [“innocent until proven guilty” only applies to citizens](http://www.startribune.com/the-latest-ex-trump-adviser-questions-border-talking-points/485815061/). ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2018, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/21703 "2018-06-18T16:38:00Z")
I’m not seeing where your link says “innocent until proven guilty” ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2018, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/21704 "2018-06-18T16:50:38Z")
> [@](#): > > President Donald Trump is asserting that children “are being used by some of the worst criminals on earth” as a way to enter the United States along the southern border. IOW: children from the other side of the border are not innocent. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=1084) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=1086)