# The Trump Administration: A Clusterfuck in the Making **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 7, 2016, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070 "2016-12-07T00:25:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1122
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2018, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/22425 "2018-07-04T17:14:30Z")
While I agree that’s true, if you read into the story, it was more than snowballing. I’d agree that in a serious national security discussion in the Oval Office, “why can’t we just invade” is a perfectly good brainstorming question even a non-idiot President would ask to commence an intellectual exercise. But Trump persisted with the question over and over, including raising the idea to a number of South American leaders. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2018, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/22426 "2018-07-04T17:20:03Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > While I agree that’s true, if you read into the story, it was more than snowballing. > > I’d agree that in a serious national security discussion in the Oval Office, “why can’t we just invade” is a perfectly good brainstorming question even a non-idiot President would ask to commence an intellectual exercise. But Trump persisted with the question over and over, including raising the idea to a number of South American leaders. Going outside the west wing to other countries does make him (us) look bad, I’ll agree, but honestly, I want my president having long, hard debates with his advisers, even if for a week or more, so he can fully understand why something should happen (or not happen) a certain way. I don’t care if it took a week to convince him, that debate would arguably make him a more effective president (as long as he learned something, which with the current idiot is not a given). Having this leaked is worse than the debate itself, imo. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2018, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/22427 "2018-07-04T17:25:08Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > I’m actually more alarmed about the leak of this info than the info itself. If a president can’t snowball, even stupid shit, and have debates with his advisers without fear of it going public, something’s wrong. A nitpick, but I think you mean spitballing rather than snowballing. Spitballing is a slang term for throwing out wild ideas just to stimulate a discussion. Snowballing is a slang term for when small problems are left unchecked and grow larger. I’ll grant that both terms apply to the Trump administration in general but I believe spitball is the correct one for this context. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2018, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/22428 "2018-07-04T17:43:55Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > A nitpick, but I think you mean spitballing rather than snowballing. > > Spitballing is a slang term for throwing out wild ideas just to stimulate a discussion. Snowballing is a slang term for when small problems are left unchecked and grow larger. > > I’ll grant that both terms apply to the Trump administration in general but I believe spitball is the correct one for this context. Or “brainstorming.” But then there have to be brains involved so never mind. I think snowballing is also a term for something naughty. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2018, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/22429 "2018-07-04T17:52:18Z")
But why? Why invade Venezuela? I don’t get it. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2018, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/22430 "2018-07-04T18:03:04Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > But why? Why invade Venezuela? I don’t get it. So we can steal their oil. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2018, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/22431 "2018-07-04T18:05:19Z")
Profit!!! ETA: Ninja’d! Damn you, Johnny! ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2018, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/22432 "2018-07-04T18:13:55Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > A nitpick, but I think you mean spitballing rather than snowballing. > > Spitballing is a slang term for throwing out wild ideas just to stimulate a discussion. **Snowballing is a slang term for when small problems are left unchecked and grow larger.** I understand it’s also a slang term for something more Rule 34-related… ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2018, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/22433 "2018-07-04T18:34:55Z")
> [@Guest-starring\_Id](#): > > Surprised Turkey\* is one of the countries slapping the US with retaliatory tariffs… > \*Sure, they’re part of the EU, but they’re not exactly considered ideal team players at this moment. The footnote would be [a surprise to the EU](https://europa.eu/european-union/about-eu/countries_en). Turkey has been making eyes at us sort of somewhat maybe, but there’s still the little issue of Cyprus. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2018, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/22434 "2018-07-04T19:47:01Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > I understand it’s also a slang term for something more Rule 34-related… … and in which he may have engaged with Stormy Daniels. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2018, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/22435 "2018-07-04T19:55:22Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > A nitpick, but I think you mean spitballing rather than snowballing. > > Spitballing is a slang term for throwing out wild ideas just to stimulate a discussion. Snowballing is a slang term for when small problems are left unchecked and grow larger. > > I’ll grant that both terms apply to the Trump administration in general but I believe spitball is the correct one for this context. You’re absolutely correct, and I blame it on my brain being on holiday mode. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2018, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/22436 "2018-07-04T19:58:09Z")
Dozens of immigrant women moved outdoors during Nielsen visit to detention center > **[Dozens of immigrant women moved outdoors during Nielsen visit to detention...](https://thehill.com/latino/395500-dozens-of-immigrant-women-moved-outdoors-during-nielsen-visit-to-detention-center/)** > > Dozens of detained immigrant women who were separated from their children were reportedly moved out to a soccer field during Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen’s visit to a detention cent… Potemkin Villages are live and well. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2018, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/22437 "2018-07-04T20:02:59Z")
> [@](#): > > …the group attempted to yell “ayúdenos” to the group of officials, meaning “help us” in Spanish… I would be somewhat reassured if she either knew what that meant or asked someone to tell her. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2018, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/22438 "2018-07-04T20:09:24Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > I’m actually more alarmed about the leak of this info than the info itself. If a president can’t snowball, even stupid shit, and have debates with his advisers without fear of it going public, something’s wrong. I disagree. We NEED to know shit like this. We NEED a “trail” showing how unstable and dangerous this fucker really is. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2018, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/22439 "2018-07-04T20:11:03Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > I disagree. We NEED to know shit like this. We NEED a “trail” showing how unstable and dangerous this fucker really is. Yes, I have to agree with that disagree. There is a clear and present danger with this so-called “president,” and we need to know this shit. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2018, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/22440 "2018-07-04T20:56:01Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > Yes, I have to agree with that disagree. There is a clear and present danger with this so-called “president,” and we need to know this shit. Disagree on the disagree. This kind of policy discussion needs to be behind closed doors. We need lots of inside people pushing back on this president when it comes to this kind of stuff, and the fact that he listened is good. If this kind of shit continues to get leaked, maybe next time he won’t listen. Maybe next time he just says “Fuck my advisers.” This leak doesn’t do us any good diplomatically, militarily, or politically. We know he’s a dangerous idiot from the shit he says in public. For better or worse, he’s here; he needs to be able to have open, frank discussions with advisers, even if the whole thing is centered around a stupid premise or series of questions. This leak just gives those of us who already hate him a chance to shake our heads and say “SEE?!” Those who love him will ignore it or not care about the gravity of it. Those in the middle/indifferents will say “Nothing happened, why is this even coming out?” It does absolutely nothing to move the needle or fix anything. Presidents should be able to propose things, stupid or otherwise, and have the right people talk them out of it without it getting out into the public. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2018, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/22441 "2018-07-04T21:15:46Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > Disagree on the disagree. This kind of policy discussion needs to be behind closed doors. We need lots of inside people pushing back on this president when it comes to this kind of stuff, and the fact that he listened is good. If this kind of shit continues to get leaked, maybe next time he won’t listen. Maybe next time he just says “Fuck my advisers.” This leak doesn’t do us any good diplomatically, militarily, or politically. We know he’s a dangerous idiot from the shit he says in public. For better or worse, he’s here; he needs to be able to have open, frank discussions with advisers, even if the whole thing is centered around a stupid premise or series of questions. > > This leak just gives those of us who already hate him a chance to shake our heads and say “SEE?!” Those who love him will ignore it or not care about the gravity of it. Those in the middle/indifferents will say “Nothing happened, why is this even coming out?” It does absolutely nothing to move the needle or fix anything. > > Presidents should be able to propose things, stupid or otherwise, and have the right people talk them out of it without it getting out into the public. Presidents yes, Chump no. Fuck Chump. Same as I would agree to see this sort of thing done with Hitler but not Merkel. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2018, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/22442 "2018-07-04T21:42:54Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > I disagree. We NEED to know shit like this. We NEED a “trail” showing how unstable and dangerous this fucker really is. I dunno, it’s not necessarily a problem for a president to consider military options, but I don’t get the excess concern over the leak, either. I suppose it might indicate that Trump hires people who are too dumb to keep their mouths shut, which is a big problem in and of itself. ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2018, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/22443 "2018-07-04T22:00:03Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > But why? Why invade Venezuela? I don’t get it. Venezuela is a mess. Trump has learned nothing from history and thinks an invasion would be met with flowers and that the aftermath would be a Nobel peace prize. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2018, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/22444 "2018-07-04T22:12:15Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > Presidents should be able to propose things, stupid or otherwise, and have the right people talk them out of it without it getting out into the public. Generally speaking, I agree. But it could be that McMasters and/or Tillerson (let’s assume they’re the source) want the public to know just how batshit crazy things are in the White House. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=1121) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=1123)