# The Trump Administration: A Clusterfuck in the Making **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 7, 2016, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070 "2016-12-07T00:25:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1159
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/23165 "2018-07-18T17:51:41Z")
> [@DJ\_Motorbike](#): > > Were you born yesterday? Try being coherent. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/23166 "2018-07-18T17:59:21Z")
Trump criticizes tiny NATO ally Montenegro as being “very aggressive” and hints he wouldn’t defend them if they were attacked. Hint, hint. > **[Trump slams 'aggressive' NATO ally, cites potential for new world war](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/trump-calls-out-very-aggressive-montenegro-latest-nato-jibe-n892311)** > > The U.S. ally — which is smaller than Connecticut and about as populous as Baltimore — found itself in the president's crosshairs. ---
**Author:** ![Chip\_Dundas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b5a626/32.png) [@Chip\_Dundas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chip_Dundas)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/23167 "2018-07-18T18:00:48Z")
Democracy will never work, so to say the “USA is a democracy” is to say the USA is destined to fail. Democracy, like communism, only works in a fake utopia. Our “expert community” that says they can keep us safe, LOL, and swears up and down that Drumpf worked with the Russians. Of course no one asks about Israel’s influence, Saudi Arabia’s influence, or Mexico’s influence in our govt. ---
**Author:** ![DJ\_Motorbike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90ced4/32.png) [@DJ\_Motorbike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DJ_Motorbike)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/23168 "2018-07-18T18:07:11Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > So, here’s a (probably stupid) question. > > Are you actually interested in discussing, debating, understanding, etc.? Or are you just here in an attempt to score cheap rhetorical points and “pwn the libs”? > > Because if the former: _nobody here wants war between the US and Russia_. The single most shitty, obnoxious thing you can do is present stupid strawman arguments about your opponents, and the interesting thing about trolls on this forum is that, for the most part, they don’t stick around long enough to earn a seniority bonus á la **doorhinge**. > > Nobody here wants war with Russia. That said, it is important to keep in mind that Putin is an aggressive, expansionist dictator with a trail of dead bodies in his wake who has been doing quite a lot to upset the modern western order and destroy the cohesion that’s given Europe _unprecedented_ peace and prosperity. The only way to deny his meddling in the US election is to completely reject the conclusions of the entire US intelligence apparatus. Maybe you do this; maybe Iraq was the last straw for you. (I’d hope it was equally the last straw for the republican party, but apparently not - what’s your opinion on John Bolton?) I think that’s foolish, but okay, that’s an opinion. I’d just hope you’d apply it _consistently_. John Bolton should be fired. Out of a cannon. Into the sun. I despise that warmongering neo-con monster. Lidderally Hitler made a mistake in hiring him. I stared lurking here during the buildup to the Iraq war as it was one of the only places I could find some dissent. Now you’re all for the establishment and push their war mongering narratives. edit:Sorry for not having made SDMB celebrity status. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/23169 "2018-07-18T18:12:28Z")
I don’t watch Fox News because I don’t want to die of apoplexy, but Meghan McCain today on The View said she watched it yesterday and they were gong with “If you don’t support Trump you want the United States to go to war.” And Trump specifically said that in a Tweet today: “Some people HATE the fact that I got along well with President Putin of Russia. They would rather go to war than see this. It’s called Trump Derangement Syndrome!” > This is the new line of attack. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/23170 "2018-07-18T18:17:30Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > I don’t watch Fox News because I don’t want to die of apoplexy, but Meghan McCain today on The View said she watched it yesterday and they were gong with “If you don’t support Trump you want the United States to go to war.” And Trump specifically said that in a Tweet today: > “Some people HATE the fact that I got along well with President Putin of Russia. They would rather go to war than see this. It’s called Trump Derangement Syndrome!” > [https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1019544304853966853](https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1019544304853966853) > > This is the new line of attack. Explains the pair of trolls we’ve had today. ---
**Author:** ![DJ\_Motorbike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90ced4/32.png) [@DJ\_Motorbike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DJ_Motorbike)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/23171 "2018-07-18T18:22:03Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Maybe you do this; maybe Iraq was the last straw for you. (I’d hope it was equally the last straw for the republican party, but apparently not - what’s your opinion on John Bolton?) I think that’s foolish, but okay, that’s an opinion. I’d just hope you’d apply it _consistently_. Another thing, my dude. Since you asked consistency for me are you as concerned about Obama’s meddling in Israel’s election. He had people on the ground in Israel and spent tax dollars trying to sway that election. Was it okay for him or does he get a pass. Could it be that countries do this kind of thing to each other routinely? Could it just be that maybe . . . just maybe this is being pushed for reasons that aren’t completely honorable. Why would they just go and do that. Just go and lie about something. Kind of makes you think. Well, makes some of us think. I guess. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/23172 "2018-07-18T18:24:29Z")
> [@DJ\_Motorbike](#): > > John Bolton should be fired. Out of a cannon. Into the sun. I despise that warmongering neo-con monster. Lidderally Hitler made a mistake in hiring him. > > I stared lurking here during the buildup to the Iraq war as it was one of the only places I could find some dissent. Now you’re all for the establishment and push their war mongering narratives. > > edit:Sorry for not having made SDMB celebrity status. One might argue that it would be imbecilic to suppose that our opposition to the Iraq invasion was based on a position that it would never be acceptable for the US to deploy military assets. One might argue that it would be equally imbecilic to suggest that a posture of wariness toward the strongman who is patently engaged in attempting to reestablish the Soviet Union can only be based on “a warmongering narrative.” And one would be objectively correct when advancing such arguments. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/23173 "2018-07-18T18:28:45Z")
> [@DJ\_Motorbike](#): > > Another thing, my dude. Since you asked consistency for me are you as concerned about Obama’s meddling in Israel’s election. He had people on the ground in Israel and spent tax dollars trying to sway that election. Was it okay for him or does he get a pass. > > Could it be that countries do this kind of thing to each other routinely? > > Could it just be that maybe . . . just maybe this is being pushed for reasons that aren’t completely honorable. > > Why would they just go and do that. Just go and lie about something. > > Kind of makes you think. Well, makes some of us think. I guess. All I saw when I looked at this post was “What about…?” :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![APB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e8cbc/32.png) [@APB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/APB)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/23174 "2018-07-18T18:32:04Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Okay, so I might be wrong about Philip being there, but clearly the Queen reviewed the Troops recently, despite what Trump said. You’re still missing the point. The Queen reviews and inspects troops all the time. But that’s not what is going on when a foreign head of state is visiting. Then it is the visiting head of state who is doing the reviewing and inspecting. It is a standard bit of diplomatic protocol that most countries, including the USA, follow. For some reason, perhaps no more than a desire to give him something to do, the Queen has usually delegated that bit of the ceremony to Prince Philip. But it so happened that Trump’s visit was the first one since Philip retired from public duties. (The most recent one before then was that of King Felipe of Spain a year ago and [then Prince Philip performed those duties as usual](https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/world/queen-welcomes-spains-king-felipe-vi-to-uk-797491.html).) So some minor adjustments were required. Especially as, if some press reports are accurate, both Prince Charles and Prince William refused to attend. Had either of them been present, they would presumably have taken Prince Philip’s place. If all this has any interest at all, it is probably this. What is not too difficult to deduce is that someone, whether on the British or the American side, must have pointed out to Trump that this was new, in the hope of impressing him. Which as he subsequently mentioned it (in his usual garbled fashion) evidently did just that. So soft power at its most effective. I suspect most US Presidents in the past would have been rather more hard-headed. ---
**Author:** ![FloatyGimpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/floatygimpy/32/7750_2.png) [@FloatyGimpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FloatyGimpy)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/23175 "2018-07-18T18:33:23Z")
> [@DJ\_Motorbike](#): > > You’re just sad that hostilities aren’t escalating between Russia and the US. We’re supposed to be mired in endless war like the Good Lord intended, right? Just like all those wars the US was in with Russia during Obama’s presidency, right? :smack: Just how long does my ignore list have to be ffs! ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/23176 "2018-07-18T18:36:37Z")
For context, it may be useful to take this Russian business in the context that Many of Trump’s bible-beater supporters admire Putin and welcome his help in subverting America if it advances their bible-beater agenda. [https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/what-was-maria-butina-doing-at-the-national-prayer-breakfast/ar-AAAeQJo](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/what-was-maria-butina-doing-at-the-national-prayer-breakfast/ar-AAAeQJo) ---
**Author:** ![DJ\_Motorbike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90ced4/32.png) [@DJ\_Motorbike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DJ_Motorbike)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/23177 "2018-07-18T18:46:16Z")
> [@FloatyGimpy](#): > > Just like all those wars the US was in with Russia during Obama’s presidency, right? :smack: > > Just how long does my ignore list have to be ffs! Obama has Libya on his bloody hands. > [@](#): > > One might argue that it would be imbecilic to suppose that our opposition to the Iraq invasion was based on a position that it would never be acceptable for the US to deploy military assets. > > One might argue that it would be equally imbecilic to suggest that a posture of wariness toward the strongman who is patently engaged in attempting to reestablish the Soviet Union can only be based on “a warmongering narrative.” > > And one would be objectively correct when advancing such arguments. Leftist demanding war over trumped up shit. You’ve become Paul Wolfowitz. Buh buh Russia is eeeeeevil. They just went and invaded a country. Like, what kind of country just goes and does that. Just invades a country like that. I can’t even begin to think of another country that just goes out and invades a country. There may be one but honestly I can’t think of it. Someone help me out here. There was something that happened in 2003, but no. It’s on the edge of my mind but . . . sorry I just can’t grasp it. Russia is NOT OUR ENEMY. You’re being told that by the very people who brought you the Iraq invasion. You fools. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/23178 "2018-07-18T18:53:04Z")
> [@DJ\_Motorbike](#): > > John Bolton should be fired. Out of a cannon. Into the sun. I despise that warmongering neo-con monster. Lidderally Hitler made a mistake in hiring him. It just strikes me - you’re clearly still quite pissed about Iraq (as we all should be). You talk about escalating to war. You do realize Bolton was gunning hard for war with Iran _this year_, and is currently part of Trump’s cabinet, right? > [@](#): > > I stared lurking here during the buildup to the Iraq war as it was one of the only places I could find some dissent. Now you’re all for the establishment and push their war mongering narratives. Um… Dude? Who is the president? Which party has control of both houses of congress and a majority on the supreme court? “The establishment” is Trump and his party. They run the show. They call the shots. They are in charge. Their warmongers are in the national security council. (Coincidentally, it is the same party that led the charge into Iraq.) Who, exactly, do you think is pushing for war with Russia? ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/23179 "2018-07-18T18:54:06Z")
> [@DJ\_Motorbike](#): > > Leftist demanding war over trumped up shit. One more try! Who is demanding war with Russia? Is **FloatyGimpy** actually asking for that? ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/23180 "2018-07-18T18:55:11Z")
> [@DJ\_Motorbike](#): > > Another thing, my dude. Since you asked consistency for me are you as concerned about Obama’s meddling in Israel’s election. He had people on the ground in Israel and spent tax dollars trying to sway that election. Was it okay for him or does he get a pass. Before you parrot everything Sean Hannity tells you, you might want to do some fact checking. [http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2015/mar/25/blog-posting/blog-claims-us-funded-anti-netanyahu-election-effo/](http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2015/mar/25/blog-posting/blog-claims-us-funded-anti-netanyahu-election-effo/) To save you some reading: > [@](#): > > A conservative blog claimed, “Obama has been sending taxpayer dollars, at least $350,000 to fund anti-Likud, anti Netanyahu groups in Israel for tomorrow’s election.” > > First, there is the matter of the dollar amount. If any U.S. money was used to mobilize anti-Likud voters, it would have been in Israel. A more accurate figure would be $233,500. > > Next, there is a matter of the blog’s tense. “Has been sending” says the action is continuing. In this case, the money stopped flowing in 2014, before elections were called in Israel. > > Finally, the allegation that the money was spent to fund anti-Likud, anti-Netanyahu groups in Israel for the election is based on speculation. Yes, Obama sent money to OneVoice, a group that promoted a two-state solution. And yes that group partnered with a different group V15 that wanted Netanyahu defeated. But there is no paper trail that the money given to OneVoice was spent on an electoral ground game. It would be naive to ignore that OneVoice’s policy positions mesh well with V15’s voter mobilization, but that’s different from saying that American taxpayer dollars were spent by V15. > > That may change as more evidence comes to light. > > PunditFact’s rulings are based on when a statement was made and on the information available at that time. This claim rates Mostly False. Even if Obama’s money went to efforts to defeat Netanyahu, that pales in comparison to Russian troll farms and Cambridge Analytics targeting conservatives in Facebook and feeding them false news reports designed to get their paranoia all heated up. Remember all the communist tactics the conservatives have been warning us about since the 50’s? Here’s ample evidence. Now they ignore it, or dismiss as “everybody does it” because the cowardly spineless bastards don’t have the gumption to own up to the principles they’ve been establishing for decades. Fucking hypocrites and traitors are trying to rewrite history to cover their yellow asses and not admit they stupidly bought a false bill of goods from Trump. “Whatabout” might work among you Hannitites, but the rest of us are being the actual patriots and trying to rid this country of its biggest menace. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/23181 "2018-07-18T18:56:05Z")
> [@DJ\_Motorbike](#): > > Russia is NOT OUR ENEMY. You’re being told that by the very people who brought you the Iraq invasion. You fools. If I remember correctly, and correct me if I’m wrong, but wasn’t the Iraq invasion done by the same Republicans who are now licking Trump’s ass? ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/23182 "2018-07-18T18:58:36Z")
> [@APB](#): > > You’re still missing the point. The Queen reviews and inspects troops all the time. But that’s not what is going on when a foreign head of state is visiting. Then it is the visiting head of state who is doing the reviewing and inspecting. It is a standard bit of diplomatic protocol that most countries, including the USA, follow. > > For some reason, perhaps no more than a desire to give him something to do, the Queen has usually delegated that bit of the ceremony to Prince Philip. But it so happened that Trump’s visit was the first one since Philip retired from public duties. (The most recent one before then was that of King Felipe of Spain a year ago and [then Prince Philip performed those duties as usual](https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/world/queen-welcomes-spains-king-felipe-vi-to-uk-797491.html).) So some minor adjustments were required. Especially as, if some press reports are accurate, both Prince Charles and Prince William refused to attend. Had either of them been present, they would presumably have taken Prince Philip’s place. > > If all this has any interest at all, it is probably this. What is not too difficult to deduce is that someone, whether on the British or the American side, must have pointed out to Trump that this was new, in the hope of impressing him. Which as he subsequently mentioned it (in his usual garbled fashion) evidently did just that. So soft power at its most effective. I suspect most US Presidents in the past would have been rather more hard-headed. US Presidents in the past would’ve paid attention to their briefing material and known what was going on. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/23183 "2018-07-18T19:13:38Z")
[Contradicting Coats, Putin puckerer posits Kremlin cancelled clandestine activities.](https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/18/trump-no-russia-is-not-targeting-the-united-states.html) As fast as he swaps positions, there’s got to be something he could be hooked up to that would generate electricity. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/23184 "2018-07-18T19:16:12Z")
So I guess Russia wants to question former US ambassador to Russia Michael McFaul in relation to some alleged financial crimes while McFaul was serving in Moscow. In her press conference today, Sarah Huckabee Sanders said the topic was addressed in Helsinki, and she did not rule out the possibility that Trump would cooperate with Russia’s effort to prosecute McFaul. Well, sure, we extradite former diplomats all the time. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=1158) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=1160)