# The Trump Administration: A Clusterfuck in the Making **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 7, 2016, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070 "2016-12-07T00:25:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1250
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2018, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/24985 "2018-09-06T03:08:02Z")
I don’t think it’s Pence. I don’t he’s quite that stupid to drop a word like “lodestar” and not expect it to go unnoticed. So I think it’s a ruse. What I don’t understand is why anyone would think the op-ed would assuage anyone’s fears. Removal of the president under the 25th Amendment would be way more preferable than a coup d’etat by faceless entities! And for all we know, the author is a Russian agent whose sole purpose is to sow chaos and confusion and cause the average American to totally lose faith in government. Or it could be someone in the Trump brain trust intentionally throwing gasoline on the “Deep State” fire in anticipation of Mueller’s indictments. This is a terrible, terrible thing. ---
**Author:** ![AnalogSignal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/analogsignal/32/1085_2.png) [@AnalogSignal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnalogSignal)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2018, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/24986 "2018-09-06T03:09:05Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > I can’t imagine that the NYT would print anything written by Pence. The NYT doesn’t have to endorse the VP’s views but should print them because they are newsworthy. ---
**Author:** ![AnalogSignal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/analogsignal/32/1085_2.png) [@AnalogSignal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnalogSignal)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2018, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/24987 "2018-09-06T03:11:11Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > I don’t think it’s Pence. I don’t he’s quite that stupid to drop a word like “lodestar” and not expect it to go unnoticed. So I think it’s a ruse. I think Pence is that stupid but I agree it could be a ruse. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2018, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/24988 "2018-09-06T03:23:44Z")
Trump really thinks anyone who disagrees with him is guilty of treason? ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2018, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/24989 "2018-09-06T03:30:23Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > But that’s just it: what if he _doesn’t_ think it’s BS? Then we would expect him to try and identify the culprit. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2018, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/24990 "2018-09-06T03:32:24Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Lots of folks on Reddit think Pence is the author, because “lodestar” is apparently a word he’s used before. Also, Pence is the one “senior official” who cannot be fired by Trump. Given that the article states that the person is writing anonymously, in order to avoid getting fired, I think it’s reasonable to conclude that it is not Pence. Whoever it is, was close to McCain. How did Bolton and McCain get along? Bolton seems like the type to do whatever the fuck it takes to make what he wants to have happen, happen. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2018, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/24991 "2018-09-06T03:44:06Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Trump really thinks anyone who disagrees with him is guilty of treason? Trump thinks people who didn’t applaud during his State of the Union Address were guilty of treason. So, yeah. ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2018, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/24992 "2018-09-06T04:25:39Z")
Where’s all the Trump defenders? Shouldn’t they be here to acknowledge that Trump has used the word ‘treason’ incorrectly? Or are they too gutless to admit their beloved hero is a fucking moron? ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2018, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/24993 "2018-09-06T04:31:47Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Could it be, as it were, _nobody?_ > > Can the New York Times just write this up, in hopes of making Trump look bad while sparking a witch hunt for the disloyal insider — a hunt that can never actually _succeed,_ but which can spark all sorts of havoc? And toss in a quick mention of “lodestar”, and then just sit back and get the popcorn ready? Could be. But then again, this is the New York Times we’re talking about. Y’know, a news organization with a ton of credibility and consistently high standards for reporting. I’d put the odds of them “just writing this up” up there with the odds of them publishing a front page story about how Trump is committing treason based on facts they _know_ are made up or bullshit, i.e. “basically nil”. > [@asahi](#): > > There’s no way that the author of the anonymous op-ed is anyone worth a shit, and that’s one reason - among several - I have problems with it. The New York Times editorial board just fucked itself, and it also might have fucked the WaPo and other credible or established major metro news gathering outlets. I confess I’ve never been a practicing journalist, aside from 2 freelance articles in my undergrad days, but I worked in PR and know the field. This is just a massive fucking decline in journalistic standards and editorial laziness on the part of the Times. On 95% of the papers out there it wouldn’t mean shit, but this is the freaking Times. What’s this response based on? You have no idea who it is. The Times presumably does, and thought it was newsworthy. Why should we worry about this? It’s not like anything they’re saying is out of line with the rest of what we know from this administration. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2018, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/24994 "2018-09-06T04:49:44Z")
Lawrence O’Donnell and one of his panelists went with Dan Coates as the NYT op-ed author. Friend of McCain, National Security position, and, at age 75, not worrying about his next job. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2018, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/24995 "2018-09-06T04:51:26Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > What I don’t understand is why anyone would think the op-ed would assuage anyone’s fears. Removal of the president under the 25th Amendment would be way more preferable than a coup d’etat by faceless entities! And for all we know, the author is a Russian agent whose sole purpose is to sow chaos and confusion and cause the average American to totally lose faith in government. Or it could be someone in the Trump brain trust intentionally throwing gasoline on the “Deep State” fire in anticipation of Mueller’s indictments. It’s not as if someone must slipped this op-ed tthrough their mail slot in an unmarked envelope and the Times decided to publish it. They know who Lodestar is, probably spoke to them face to face, and have every reason to believe it was written in good faith. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2018, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/24996 "2018-09-06T05:18:59Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > I don’t think it’s Pence. I don’t he’s quite that stupid to drop a word like “lodestar” and not expect it to go unnoticed. So I think it’s a ruse. > > What I don’t understand is why anyone would think the op-ed would assuage anyone’s fears. Removal of the president under the 25th Amendment would be way more preferable than a coup d’etat by faceless entities! I know, right ? Whoever wrote this clearly needs some fresh air, because he’s essentially saying “Look, we know it’s a shitshow. And we did talk about doing this by the book we pretend to revere (including in this very article), but in the end we decided that shadowy, underhanded shenanigans were more our _forte_. But rest assured, we, the unelected, are doing our utmost to implement agendas you didn’t vote for and we won’t talk about in public by means that would make Nixon raise an eyebrow. Seriously, we’re the real heroes here, you guys.” ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2018, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/24997 "2018-09-06T05:22:20Z")
> [@dasmoocher](#): > > Lawrence O’Donnell and one of his panelists went with Dan Coates as the NYT op-ed author. Friend of McCain, National Security position, and, at age 75, not worrying about his next job. The thing about not worrying about his next job is what makes me think it’s _not_ Dan Coats. Why would Dan Coats write up this self-serving op-ed when he doesn’t have a future to protect? I think it’s someone who _is_ worried about their next job, who is afraid that being associated with Trump will be a stain on their resume. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2018, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/24998 "2018-09-06T05:35:16Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > I know, right ? Whoever wrote this clearly needs some fresh air, because he’s essentially saying “Look, we know it’s a shitshow. And we did talk about doing this by the book we pretend to revere (including in this very article), but in the end we decided that shadowy, underhanded shenanigans were more our _forte_. But rest assured, we, the unelected, are doing our utmost to implement agendas you didn’t vote for and we won’t talk about in public by means that would make Nixon raise an eyebrow. Seriously, we’re the real heroes here, you guys.” Exactly. Nothing about this is good at all. A nameless cabal, running the country as they see fit, including (apparently) military leaders ignoring orders from civilian government. But there’s nothing to worry here. We’re the Good Guys. We promise!!! ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2018, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/24999 "2018-09-06T05:37:25Z")
Please excuse me, because it’s really early in the morning. POTUS behaves like a senile old man, that Op-ed says he’s beein treated by his staff like senile people are usually treated, and a lot of you are surprised? And there’s some of you who thought the people at the White House was some sort of team, when Trump’s always been poison to anything resembling teamwork? I don’t drink coffee but I may be needing some… _goes off in search of caffeine_ ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2018, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/25000 "2018-09-06T05:47:50Z")
> [@dasmoocher](#): > > Lawrence O’Donnell and one of his panelists went with Dan Coates as the NYT op-ed author. Friend of McCain, National Security position, and, at age 75, not worrying about his next job. And they made a pretty strong case for it too. If I had to put money on who it was Coates would be a smart bet at this point. My main reservation with him is that he has always been pretty much by the book. It could be a deputy. Having said that, I do find myself very uncomfortable with the President’s staff, even this President, hiding documents or swiping them off his desk in an effort to thwart him from doing things they disagree with. If they really think he is this dangerous to the country then invoke the 25th Amendment or resign and go public. Sneaking around engaging in this type of skulduggery does a lot of damage to the office of the President as well. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2018, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/25001 "2018-09-06T05:52:57Z")
> [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](#): > > And they made a pretty strong case for it too. If I had to put money on who it was Coates would be a smart bet at this point. My main reservation with him is that he has always been pretty much by the book. It could be a deputy. > > Having said that, I do find myself very uncomfortable with the President’s staff, even this President, hiding documents or swiping them off his desk in an effort to thwart him from doing things they disagree with. If they really think he is this dangerous to the country then invoke the 25th Amendment or resign and go public. Sneaking around engaging in this type of skulduggery does a lot of damage to the office of the President as well. Trump isn’t the first idiot to hold the office. Certainly the greatest, but not the first. With election by popularity contest, there are centuries of systems built up to handle cases of incompetent presidents. In the case of a competent one, those systems are skipped. With Trump, they’re being stressed to the breaking point. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2018, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/25002 "2018-09-06T05:54:48Z")
> [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > Exactly. Nothing about this is good at all. A nameless cabal, running the country as they see fit, including (apparently) military leaders ignoring orders from civilian government. But there’s nothing to worry here. We’re the Good Guys. We promise!!! One suspects that Mattis, Sessions, and others view themselves as safe on the basis of talks with the Republican high ups in the Senate. They’ve been given the (backroom) okay to ignore the President and to not worry about any consequences. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2018, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/25003 "2018-09-06T07:25:00Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > One suspects that Mattis, Sessions, and others view themselves as safe on the basis of talks with the Republican high ups in the Senate. They’ve been given the (backroom) okay to ignore the President and to not worry about any consequences. Maybe, maybe not. You don’t know. That’s kind of the point of having public fucking institutions in the first place : because the quiet, polite backroom deals of the 17th century weren’t exactly satisfying for the governees. Or free from mountains of corruption. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2018, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/25004 "2018-09-06T07:29:45Z")
> [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](#): > > Having said that, I do find myself very uncomfortable with the President’s staff, even this President, hiding documents or swiping them off his desk in an effort to thwart him from doing things they disagree with. If they really think he is this dangerous to the country then invoke the 25th Amendment or resign and go public. Sneaking around engaging in this type of skulduggery does a lot of damage to the office of the President as well. My personal guess would be that Lodestar (which is what I’m going to call him/her until we have a better idea of who the author is) decided to put this out there as kind of a trial balloon to see how the public would react to the idea of a 25th Amendment action. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=1249) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=1251)