# The Trump Administration: A Clusterfuck in the Making **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 7, 2016, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070 "2016-12-07T00:25:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1253
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2018, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/25045 "2018-09-06T15:26:13Z")
> [@Baal\_Houtham](#): > > The Talking Points Memo site made[these comments](https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/the-lodestar-theory-mike-pence). I don’t read too much into the WP’s statement about the potential of job loss. In theory, Pence could be fired over this…if by fire we mean impeached by Congress. But the fact that he can’t be fired easily makes him less vulnerable than others. As for someone else using Pence’s rather unusual idiom, yes, I’ve already acknowledged this possibility. But what’s telling is that I haven’t seen any other official’s pet words identified in that letter. Has anyone else? There’s a difference between throwing one off their scent and going out of one’s way to put the scent on a specific person. If Pence isn’t behind the letter, then he’s being set up to look like he is. Which just adds shit on top of this shit sundae. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2018, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/25046 "2018-09-06T15:28:54Z")
> [@Mollie\_Magill](#): > > Unfortunately for Pence, he has the charisma of a banana slug. Banana slugs are a bright, cheerful yellow and bring a little joy into life. Pence is just yellow. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2018, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/25047 "2018-09-06T15:35:56Z")
> [@Chip\_Dundas](#): > > The President is not a policy expert by any means. But the process is working. This is why you hire advisors. This is why you have aides. That only helps if you listen to them. It also helps if you understand what they say. Angela Merkel reportedly had to explain the ‘fundamentals’ of EU trade to Trump 11 times > **[Angela Merkel reportedly had to explain the 'fundamentals' of EU trade to...](https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-trade-merkel-germany-eu-2017-4)** > > Merkel reportedly told her cabinet members that Trump had "very basic misunderstandings" on trade. > [@](#): > > “Ten times Trump asked [German chancellor Angela Merkel] if he could negotiate a trade deal with Germany. Every time she replied, ‘You can’t do a trade deal with Germany, only the EU,’” the official said. > > They continued: “On the eleventh refusal, Trump finally got the message, ‘Oh, we’ll do a deal with Europe then.’” > [@](#): > > Merkel reportedly told her cabinet members that Trump had “very basic misunderstandings” on the “fundamentals” of the EU and trade. You should watch this. It is funny and frightening at the same time. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/etkd57lPfPU/maxresdefault.jpg "Trade: Last Week Tonight with John Oliver (HBO)") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etkd57lPfPU) ---
**Author:** ![duality72](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duality72/32/3910_2.png) [@duality72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duality72)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2018, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/25048 "2018-09-06T15:37:24Z")
> [@Baal\_Houtham](#): > > Hi\*\* UWTF,\*\* > > The Talking Points Memo site made[these comments](https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/the-lodestar-theory-mike-pence). > > However, as the Washington Post points out, the \*\*rationale the Times gave \*\*for keeping the author’s name a secret is the likelihood that identification would lose the person his or her job. Pence cannot be fired, only impeached. But the Times didn’t say Lodestar could or could not be fired, only that said official could lose their job. If the editorial were definitively linked to Pence, he could very well be impeached and lose his job. It’s a thin layer of plausibility, but just enough to make the statement true, if a bit misleading (a feature, not a bug, in this case). ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2018, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/25049 "2018-09-06T15:38:52Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > (My emphasis.) > If the people working the closest to thump believe he is so incompetent that they have to do end runs around him to keep him from destroying the country, then why in heaven’s name are they writing to the NYTimes about it? They should be writing to Mitch McConnell. They should be writing to every member of Congress (Dem and Pub) as well as to each sitting member of the Supreme Court. Write to McConnell? No offense, kiddo, but you may as well write to the Great Pumpkin than to expect Turtleman to do his constitutional duty to the republic. Now, throw in Santa Claus, Bigfoot and the ghost of Elvis, and you’ve got yourself a dream team. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2018, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/25050 "2018-09-06T15:39:34Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Banana slugs are a bright, cheerful yellow and bring a little joy into life. > Pence is just yellow. [UC Santa Cruz would like a word with you …](https://www.ucsc.edu/about/mascot.html) ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2018, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/25051 "2018-09-06T15:49:59Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > I don’t think so. Anonymous Op-Ed isn’t the style I would expect from a general. Or a Marine. I would expect a Marine to demand to testify before Congress as a whole about Trump’s unfitness. The was Col. North did about Reagan’s unfitness? ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2018, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/25052 "2018-09-06T15:56:26Z")
> [@Chip\_Dundas](#): > > The President is not a policy expert by any means. But the process is working. This is why you hire advisors. This is why you have aides. Indeed. One totally hires aides to hide paperwork from one’s self. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2018, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/25053 "2018-09-06T15:57:54Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Honestly, though, if I may (gulp) defend Trump on one thing, throwing questions around the room as a brainstorming exercise is not a bad thing. Should we assassinate Bashir al-Assad? Should we attack North Korea? Should we do this or that? A leader SHOULD toss stuff like that around and encourage other people to do the same. Part of avoiding groupthink is getting everyone out of the comfort zone of assumptions. > > Other that that, of course, he is wildly incompetent. Iirc, the report said that Trump ordered the assassination rather than merely asked about it. So, not sure if brainstorming actually covers that. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2018, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/25054 "2018-09-06T16:02:45Z")
> [@CaptMurdock](#): > > Write to McConnell? No offense, kiddo, but you may as well write to the Great Pumpkin than to expect Turtleman to do his constitutional duty to the republic. Now, throw in Santa Claus, Bigfoot and the ghost of Elvis, and you’ve got yourself a dream team. Get back to me when you’ve read what I wrote, okay? :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > They should be writing to Mitch McConnell. They should be writing to every member of Congress (Dem and Pub) as well as to each sitting member of the Supreme Court. What about my other question: who is the intended audience for this op-ed? Any ideas? ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2018, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/25055 "2018-09-06T16:21:04Z")
I think I’m willing to give the anonymous op-ed writer a bit more slack than most here. Consider the following analogous thought-experiment – not a perfect analogy, but bear with me: You’re the mayor of a small town in Nazi-occupied France, 1941. Do you: (a) Stay in your job. Keep the garbage picked up. But work with the Resistance (the OG Resistance) in getting Jews out of town. (b) Escape to England and join the British Army. And consider that your replacement would be guaranteed to be a Nazi collaborator. I don’t think there’s a wrong choice. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2018, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/25056 "2018-09-06T16:45:05Z")
> [@Mollie\_Magill](#): > > Unfortunately for Pence, he has the charisma of a banana slug. As others have pointed out, banana slugs are cute and cheerful. Pence is more like slime mold. > [@ThelmaLou](#): > > It occurs to me that the intended audience might be thump himself. There’s nothing in there that the rest of us didn’t already know. > > Maybe the intent is to play into thump’s paranoid thinking that he is surrounded by enemies and traitors while sending a dog whistle to Pubs that their policies are being protected by like-minded people in the castle keep. > > If these keepers of the flame can drive the mad king over the edge, the Pubs can have President Pence without getting blood on their hands. > > Otherwise, why publish it at all? I have 2 theories. One is that someone wanted to drive the president into even more erratic displays before the midterms, and the other is that someone is laying the groundwork for a 25th amendment removal. I wonder if any of this will impact fears of the so-called Deep State? ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2018, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/25057 "2018-09-06T16:47:21Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > I think I’m willing to give the anonymous op-ed writer a bit more slack than most here. Consider the following analogous thought-experiment – not a perfect analogy, but bear with me: > > You’re the mayor of a small town in Nazi-occupied France, 1941. > > Do you: > > (a) Stay in your job. Keep the garbage picked up. But work with the Resistance (the OG Resistance) in getting Jews out of town. > (b) Escape to England and join the British Army. > > And consider that your replacement would be guaranteed to be a Nazi collaborator. > > I don’t think there’s a wrong choice. But what sense does it make to announce you’re doing (a)? Now, you’ve alerted Hitler to the subterfuge and have given his supporters extra reason to believe that a disloyal Deep State is the only enemy worth worrying about. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Torque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Max\_Torque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Torque)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2018, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/25058 "2018-09-06T16:51:34Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > What about my other question: who is the intended audience for this op-ed? Any ideas? The intended audience? Democrats. Frankly, this editorial reads to me like a calculated response from Republicans to reassure Democrats that, hey, there really are grown-ups running things! Don’t worry, we’re keeping his ugliest impulses in check! It’ll all be fine! No reason to vote us all out in November, we’re on _your_ side! Secretly, so you can’t see it, but trust us, it’s true! I think it’s a move to sandbag against the blue wave coming on Election Day, to keep it from being as ugly as they fear it’ll be, by reassuring Democrats that there’s already a check against Trump in place. I’m not buying it. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2018, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/25059 "2018-09-06T17:04:53Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > I think I’m willing to give the anonymous op-ed writer a bit more slack than most here. Consider the following analogous thought-experiment – not a perfect analogy, but bear with me: > > You’re the mayor of a small town in Nazi-occupied France, 1941. > > Do you: > > (a) Stay in your job. Keep the garbage picked up. But work with the Resistance (the OG Resistance) in getting Jews out of town. > (b) Escape to England and join the British Army. > > And consider that your replacement would be guaranteed to be a Nazi collaborator. > > I don’t think there’s a wrong choice. Only works if the mayor was one of the Nazi invaders. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2018, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/25060 "2018-09-06T17:11:00Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > I think I’m willing to give the anonymous op-ed writer a bit more slack than most here. Consider the following analogous thought-experiment – not a perfect analogy, but bear with me: > > You’re the mayor of a small town in Nazi-occupied France, 1941. > > Do you: > > (a) Stay in your job. Keep the garbage picked up. But work with the Resistance (the OG Resistance) in getting Jews out of town. > (b) Escape to England and join the British Army. > > And consider that your replacement would be guaranteed to be a Nazi collaborator. > > I don’t think there’s a wrong choice. I kind of agree with this? If we make “don’t be part of the Trump administration” a condition of being a good person, then we won’t even get the “maybe not quite as awful” people in the administration, we’ll just get the worst of the worst because everyone else wouldn’t bother. Imagine Bolton in Mattis’s position and you may see the logic there. That said, when you’re in that position, an anonymous op-ed like this is _fucking stupid_. You don’t pen an anonymous op-ed. You either shut up and keep doing what you can to wait it out without a major catastrophe, or you aim for a 25th amendment solution (or 2nd amendment, if things get _really_ bad; this would be the “Stauffenberg” approach). Going to the press doesn’t further the latter goal, and it actively undermines the former. At that point, you actually are considerably better off speaking up, stepping out, and naming yourself - at least then, nobody’s going to argue about a “deep state”. ETA: @ **Typo Negative** : the analogy still works just fine in that case. Sure, the person is a nazi, and this is partially their fault, but better them than fucking _Mengele_, right? ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2018, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/25061 "2018-09-06T17:11:21Z")
I think the intended audience is old school, non-Trumpist Republicans who are having a crisis of faith as they watch the party devolve before their eyes. The author believes if he can convince these people there are “adults in the room”, then they will see all is not lost and that they shouldn’t yet abandon the GOP. The author has misjudged this audience, I suspect. Old school conservatives aren’t rebels or conscientious objectors; if they didn’t put a premium on duty and loyalty, then they probably would’ve jumped ship a long time ago. I mean, as liberal as my ass is, I too am bothered that the author flaunts their insubordination; those who much more classically authoritarian than me will really be bothered. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2018, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/25062 "2018-09-06T17:24:42Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > It occurs to me that the intended audience might be thump himself. There’s nothing in there that the rest of us didn’t already know. > > Maybe the intent is to play into thump’s paranoid thinking that he is surrounded by enemies and traitors while sending a dog whistle to Pubs that their policies are being protected by like-minded people in the castle keep. > > If these keepers of the flame can drive the mad king over the edge, the Pubs can have President Pence without getting blood on their hands. > > Otherwise, why publish it at all? That’s my thinking: They’re essentially poking the insane rabid monkey with a sharp stick, with the hope he’ll lash out and need to be put down. But they can’t put him down until he does something so heinous and insane (or at least threatens to) that the fools still wearing their “We ❤ the Insane Rabid Money” t-shirts will be largely neutralized. If they can make him feel weak, he’ll do something to make himself feel strong again, and it’ll likely be something insane, and it’ll likely be announced on Twitter where no one can steal his hopes and dreams. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2018, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/25063 "2018-09-06T17:40:27Z")
Cory Booker has released publicly a batch of Kavanaugh documents labeled “Committee Confidential”. > **[Cory Booker just released confidential Brett Kavanaugh documents -- read them...](https://www.rawstory.com/2018/09/corey-booker-just-released-confidential-brett-kavanaugh-documents-read/)** > > Sen. Cory Booker (D-NJ) on Thursday released a set of documents related to Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh.Among other things, the documents deal with Kavanaugh's views on the landmark Affirmative Action case Adarand Constructors, Inc. v. Peña,... ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2018, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/25064 "2018-09-06T18:06:18Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > Benjamin Wittes said it best on Twitter: > > “I have no respect for someone who would say these things—of whose truth I have no doubt—in an anonymous oped, rather than in a public resignation letter copied to the House Judiciary Committee.” Right, especially since they still protect and enable him, and use the positions to do their own dirty shit. This isn’t “the adults handling things” the way they are trying to sell it, at all. It’s the snakes trying to not be eaten by a bigger snake. While they eat everyone else. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=1252) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=1254)