# The Trump Administration: A Clusterfuck in the Making **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 7, 2016, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070 "2016-12-07T00:25:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1292
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2018, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/25825 "2018-09-24T15:37:45Z")
On a second front, according to Vox, the Republicans were aware of Kavanaugh’s second accuser’s allegations last week. Alleged Republican response? Let’s speed the confirmation process up before this gets out. > **[Republicans reportedly knew about Brett Kavanaugh’s second accuser — and then...](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/9/24/17895622/brett-kavanaugh-deborah-ramirez-grassley-new-yorker)** > > According to the New Yorker, GOP staffers found out about Deborah Ramirez’s allegations last week. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2018, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/25826 "2018-09-24T15:39:09Z")
> [@JB99](#): > > (A) This is false. Even at the time, there were prominent people who predicted that the terms of the peace were excessively harsh. Yes - But much like in the era of Trump, the fact that they _perceived_ the treaty to be harsh, or warn that it was, does not mean it really was, especially when the demonstrable historical reality is that Germany wound up in a better post-WW1 position as it started with and its economy recovered pretty quickly. The people who did feel the treaty was too harsh broadly fall under two categories : A) British politicans, who had their own agendas in the matter - they didn’t want a strong France for the same reason they have never wanted that ; and they didn’t want a weakened Germany because playing continental powers against each other has always been Plan A 1.0 of British foreign affairs. B) Germans. I did however misspeak by using the word “sold” - the Nazis of course pushed that narrative hard, but the narrative is also what that led to the disgruntlement that spawned the Nazi parti. Much like Fox News, it was a self-feeding myth utterly divorced from reality. > [@](#): > > (B) Go fuck yourself, dickhead. If you’re going to tell me I am wrong, at least have the decency to tell me that MY ideas are wrong, instead of accusing me of repeating Nazi tropes. Suck my dick from the back, it’s not personal, fuckface. As I said, it’s what **most everyone** believes today, because it’s the theory that was pushed forward to explain the unexplainable nature of the Nazis in the postwar period (also to spare German feelings because we needed them onside against The Reds). It’s still wrong, as examined anew by contemporary historians. Richard Evans opines the only peace plan that would not have slighted Germany’s national pride, that the right-wing German zeitgeist of the time would not have felt resentful towards, and which wouldn’t have given rise to ultranationalism, would have been letting them keep most of the military gains made during the war, no restrictions on rearmament, Brest-Litovsk untouched, and possibly a cherry on top. \*That \*was never going to happen, ever. As the Fischer thesis states, the prevalent sentiment among Germans at the time was that Germany was far ahead of other Euro powers in terms of science, social advances, technology (which is broadly correct), race and culture (which is a \*smidge \*more debatable :p) yet didn’t enjoy “its rightful place in the Sun”, that is to say had fuck all in terms of colonies, international possessions or the new materials that said technology demanded - rubber, oil, etc… They saw this as a great injustice, just as they saw as a great injustice that puny Britain and lazy France did have large empires spanning the continents and international diplomatic clout. That sentiment would have remained the same regardless of the contents of the Versailles treaty, possibly (I’d say probably, judging by my own research & WW1-era newspapers) even with a return to _status quo antebellum_ - it most certainly did in our timeline. FWIW, and in a related note, some of that sentiment permeates modern “wehraboos” to this day, who go around saying that regardless of what the Nazis represent Germany “deserved” to win WW2 because it had such better tech, infantry tactics and so on and only lost because it was “ganged upon”. You’d find that same line of thought in interwar issues of the _Völkischer Beobachter_. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2018, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/25827 "2018-09-24T15:39:18Z")
Is the Rosenstein thing designed to take attention away from the Kavanaugh thing? ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2018, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/25828 "2018-09-24T15:41:25Z")
Fake ETA : also, if you think the terms of Versailles were harsh, look up the planned peace accords the German Reich was planning to impose on the French upon victory… ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2018, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/25829 "2018-09-24T15:45:55Z")
> [@dasmoocher](#): > > CNN is now reporting Rosenstein expects he is getting fired soon. > > On TV, so no link. [https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/24/politics/rod-rosenstein/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/24/politics/rod-rosenstein/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2018, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/25830 "2018-09-24T15:46:46Z")
Maybe the Germany treaty stuff should have it’s own thread? ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2018, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/25831 "2018-09-24T16:23:41Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > Maybe the Germany treaty stuff should have it’s own thread? No shit. Big current breaking news on Rosenstein and Kavanaugh and people are arguing in this thread about shit nearby a 100 years old. Get a room! ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2018, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/25832 "2018-09-24T16:31:08Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > Maybe the Germany treaty stuff should have it’s own thread? I don’t know. I criticized the GOP for not wanting to ask too many questions about attempted rape, Asahi responded that they are all Nazis, and now here we are. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2018, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/25833 "2018-09-24T16:48:48Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > Is the Rosenstein thing designed to take attention away from the Kavanaugh thing? Ultimately, they’re both designed to take attention away from the mushroom-head thing. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2018, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/25834 "2018-09-24T16:59:43Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > Ultimately, they’re both designed to take attention away from the mushroom-head thing. Aw come on, I had \*just \*gotten that out of my brain! ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2018, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/25835 "2018-09-24T17:08:36Z")
MSNBC is now reporting that Trump and Rosenstein will be meeting on Thursday. ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2018, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/25836 "2018-09-24T17:19:32Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > Ultimately, they’re both designed to take attention away from the mushroom-head thing. For which we’re all thankful. ---
**Author:** ![aurora\_maire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aurora_maire/32/328_2.png) [@aurora\_maire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aurora_maire)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2018, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/25837 "2018-09-24T17:43:48Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > MSNBC is now reporting that Trump and Rosenstein will be meeting on Thursday. I wonder if there is some special reason the White House decided to do this on Thursday? Hmm. Isn’t there some sort of hearing going on that day? ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2018, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/25838 "2018-09-24T17:58:23Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > Ultimately, they’re both designed to take attention away from the mushroom-head thing. Last Week Tonight with John Oliver opens each week with a barrage of images, each with a pseudo-Latin nomenclature caption…the last of which is usually the most timely. This week it was a picture of the Toadstool Nintendo character, named “Potus Toadus” or something like that. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2018, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/25839 "2018-09-24T18:16:43Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > MSNBC is reporting that Rosenstein is heading to the Whitehouse where he will be asked to resign and that he will refuse to do so; that Trump will have to fire him if he wants him out. I hope he refuses, forcing the issue. That would kick in some sort of “Vacancy Rule”, and it would also strengthen the case for Obstruction Of Justice - if Trump has the balls to do the firing himself (since his boy Sessions didn’t do it for him). ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2018, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/25840 "2018-09-24T18:21:04Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > Is the Rosenstein thing designed to take attention away from the Kavanaugh thing? It is all connected. The pecking order is Trump\>Sessions\>Rosenstein\>Mueuller. With Kavanaugh waiting in the wings to protect Trump from any investigations/distractions/repercussions/accountability fallout from the Supreme Court side of things. As always, it is once again all about the god damn Russians and Trump. Sessions recused himself and won’t fire Rosenstein. Rosenstein won’t fire Meuller. Trump wants someone who WILL. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2018, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/25841 "2018-09-24T18:36:11Z")
> [@dasmoocher](#): > > Alleged Republican response? Let’s speed the confirmation process up before this gets out. There’s more at stake here then just Kavanaugh’s confirmation. If people begin stopping and thinking about what they’re being told, it could lead to a complete collapse of the Republican party. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2018, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/25842 "2018-09-24T18:37:39Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > The pecking order is Trump\>Sessions\>Rosenstein\>Mueuller. Putin\>Trump\>Sessions\>Rosenstein\>Mueuller. I think there’s two different factions pushing for Kavanaugh. Trump and his inner circle want him because they need a Supreme Court Justice who will cover up for their crimes with executive privilege. But the rest of the Republican party (the ones who took Koch money instead of Putin money) want a justice who will support the rest of the right wing agenda. At the moment, they both see Kavanaugh as their man and are working together. But either side will sell out the other if circumstances change and they see their best interests lie elsewhere. And either or both sides will dump Kavanaugh for the same reason. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2018, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/25843 "2018-09-24T18:47:14Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > I don’t know. I criticized the GOP for not wanting to ask too many questions about attempted rape, Asahi responded that they are all Nazis, and now here we are. Before the relocation of the topic occurs, it should be noted that denazification was only made possible by the the Reich falling to military conquest. ISTM that deTrumpification may require nothing less. Should that come to pass, I can only hope that it comes at the hands of NATO members only. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2018, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/25844 "2018-09-24T18:53:54Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > I don’t know. I criticized the GOP for not wanting to ask too many questions about attempted rape, Asahi responded that they are all Nazis, and now here we are. Nazis just ruin _everything_. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=1291) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=1293)