# The Trump Administration: A Clusterfuck in the Making **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 7, 2016, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070 "2016-12-07T00:25:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 137
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2017, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/2721 "2017-03-26T08:37:16Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > I can’t speak to the morality–frankly, it is difficult to see how a nuclear weapon could be used that would not be definitionally immoral–but the President has plenary authority over the use of nuclear weapons. He doesn’t have to ask Congress for permission, he doesn’t need a verified attack on the United States by a foreign power, and he isn’t required to justify his order. The order is merely verified by someone confirmed by a full vote of the Senate–generally taken to be the Secretary of Defense, but it could be any member of the Cabinet, or even Congressionally approved heads of major agencies–and all verification means is that the order comes directly from the President, and he is not under duress and is in command of his faculties. Alex Wellerstein spells this out and the rationale behind it in his _Washington Post_ monograph, [“No one can stop President Trump from using nuclear weapons. That’s by design.”](https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/12/01/no-one-can-stop-president-trump-from-using-nuclear-weapons-thats-by-design/?utm_term=.62f82c09d91b) > > Stranger Nobody is denying that there is a confirmation protocol in place to verify that Trump, in this hypothetical, had issued the order. I just don’t see an American military officer carrying out such an order. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2017, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/2722 "2017-03-26T12:35:03Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Nobody is denying that there is a confirmation protocol in place to verify that Trump, in this hypothetical, had issued the order. I just don’t see an American military officer carrying out such an order. I hope to christ you’re because I _can_ see a frustrated, angry, and anf frightened Trump issuing such orders at the slightest provocation like the infantile paranoid narcissist he is and being egged on by raging assholes like Steve Bannon and apocalyptic fundamentalists like Betsy DeVos. Relying on individual personalities rather than a robust system of protocols and independent authorizations from multiple sources is not very comforting when it comes to the application of weapoms that can reduce entire nations to lifeless wastelands with no more consideration than a single chain of launch orders and than a few tens of minutes of flight time. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2017, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/2723 "2017-03-26T12:51:15Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Nobody is denying that there is a confirmation protocol in place to verify that Trump, in this hypothetical, had issued the order. I just don’t see an American military officer carrying out such an order. Why not? Following orders to conduct war is their job. This isn’t the movies. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2017, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/2724 "2017-03-26T13:11:16Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > I hope to christ you’re because I _can_ see a frustrated, angry, and anf frightened Trump issuing such orders at the slightest provocation like the infantile paranoid narcissist he is and being egged on by raging assholes like Steve Bannon and apocalyptic fundamentalists like Betsy DeVos. Relying on individual personalities rather than a robust system of protocols and independent authorizations from multiple sources is not very comforting when it comes to the application of weapoms that can reduce entire nations to lifeless wastelands with no more consideration than a single chain of launch orders and than a few tens of minutes of flight time. > > Stranger I think Ivanka and Jarred would have a moderating influence on Trump. I doubt he trusts anyone, including Bannon, more than his own kids. I just hope they’re not off on a ski vacation at the time. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2017, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/2725 "2017-03-26T13:15:29Z")
And when you’re reduced to saying “I hope his kids show up before granddad goes off again”, that’s not a strong reassurance on this subject. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2017, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/2726 "2017-03-26T13:25:47Z")
“The Ass-Clown Cometh: A Story of Apocalyptic Revelation in a Single Thirty-Minute Act.” Stranger ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2017, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/2727 "2017-03-26T13:28:35Z")
As I’ve often said, _the man’s not fit to shovel shit from one place to another._ As such, I doubt very much he’s even competent enough to start a war. I have serious doubts about whether the people at the helm of the nuclear arsenal are going to follow orders from this fucking orange buffoon. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2017, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/2728 "2017-03-26T13:34:59Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > I think Ivanka and Jarred would have a moderating influence on Trump. I doubt he trusts anyone, including Bannon, more than his own kids. I just hope they’re not off on a ski vacation at the time. In normal administrations the Secretary of Education is lucky to get a meeting with the President. If Betsy DeVos is egging on the president to start a nuclear war, well, that would be extraordinary. But then…so is everything else this year. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2017, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/2729 "2017-03-26T14:04:27Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Why not? Following orders to conduct war is their job. This isn’t the movies. Because this isn’t the movies and blindly following orders is not their job. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2017, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/2730 "2017-03-26T14:30:01Z")
If Flynn flipped, it’s because of the kidnapping thing. That is a charge the FBI takes very seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2017, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/2731 "2017-03-26T14:40:24Z")
Actually, following orders is job of military officers (particularly true of the missileer corps, who are drilled to mind-numbing degree to follow through on orders to launch weapons of mass destruction without consideration for the consequences) and failing to follow an order just because an officer doesn’t consider it to be moral is essentially a guarantee of court-martial, likely resulting in termination of career. The presumption in our command and control system for strategic deterrence is that at the executive level the National Command Authority (the President, Secretary of Defense, and other advisors) are rational actors who will behave with prudence and responsibility for the citizenry of the United States and with compassion for humanity overall. When dealing with a narcissitic man-child like Donald Trump who has surrounded himself with adorators, conspiracy theorists, and apocalyptors, the notion of some kind of informal checks and balances that would be present in a normal adult presidency is no longer guaranteed. Would the Secretary of Defense or the commander of Global Strike Command refuse to validate or contravene those orders at peril to prosecution or threat? I sure hope they have that courage and conviction to make the right decision regardless of personal consequences (and sufficient knowledge to distinguish between reflexive paranoia and a legitimate respond to threat). But that is not some assurance built into the system; that is a single individual acting from personal conviction to forestall action resulting in the deaths of millions of people. You may wish that this is not true or believe that no one in their heart of hearts would ever carry out such an order, but in the system we have today it is factually true that the President of the United States could issue a completely arbitrary order to launch a nuclear strike and there is no law, procedure, or authority that can legitimately countermand it. And this authority is now invested in an ignorant, self-absorbed, thin skinned narcissitic Internet troll whose chief advisors are conspiracy theoriests, religious fundamentalists, and exploitative investment bankers and hedge fund managers. The notion of morality and compassion saving the world from an unjustified attack is not well supported by the available evidence. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![SaneBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e68b1a/32.png) [@SaneBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SaneBill)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2017, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/2732 "2017-03-26T16:04:44Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > If Flynn flipped, it’s because of the kidnapping thing. That is a charge the FBI takes very seriously. Maybe the phrase “in like Flynn” will soon have a new life with a different meaning. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2017, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/2733 "2017-03-26T17:56:28Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Nobody is going to fall on their sword for Donald Trump. Loyalty is a quality he neither inspires nor rewards. In all likelihood Trump did not have direct contact with Russian agents discussing altering the elections. (I sure as fuck wouldn’t try to recruit Trump himself; he just can’t keep his fucking mouth shut.) > > Stranger Yeah, if Trump was in on it he’d probably do something stupid like going on national TV in front of millions of Americans and instructing Russia to damage the Clinton campaign. Then when Russia actually did what he asked them to do it was just a big coincidence. Of course Its like they thought if they followed the same rules that SuperPacs use to avoid coordinating with candidates that they would be in the clear. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2017, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/2734 "2017-03-26T19:19:04Z")
[The Times is reporting that Trump gave Merkel a huge bill for the US defending Germany under NATO.](http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/germany-dismisses-white-houses-intimidating-300bn-bill-for-defence-dl7dk629k) The Times is saying it was $300 billion pounds, I don’t know what this is in dollars or Euros. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2017, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/2735 "2017-03-26T19:22:44Z")
Don’t worry. Neither does Trump. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2017, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/2736 "2017-03-26T19:24:31Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > [The Times is reporting that Trump gave Merkel a huge bill for the US defending Germany under NATO.](http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/germany-dismisses-white-houses-intimidating-300bn-bill-for-defence-dl7dk629k) The Times is saying it was $300 billion pounds, I don’t know what this is in dollars or Euros. That explains the friendly visit and the warm exchange at the photo op. Worthless orange jackass. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2017, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/2737 "2017-03-26T19:25:46Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > The Times is saying it was $300 billion pounds, I don’t know what this is in dollars or Euros. $375 billion dollars, 345 billion euros. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2017, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/2738 "2017-03-26T19:56:58Z")
> [@Bayard](#): > > A Ryan-Trump power struggle would be good fun, if for no other reason than that it would distract both of them from their chuckleheaded agendas. Pirros husband is a notoriously sleazy and philandering real estate lawyer that has close ties to Trump. Of course, she wouldn’t see fit to mention that. Her hubby is so corrupt he wrecked her burgeoning political career so she decided since she couldn’t be a real judge anymore she’d play one on TV. OK, she was a prosecutor, not a judge but it’s a good punch line. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2017, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/2739 "2017-03-26T20:16:52Z")
CNN is reporting a man has been beaten at a pro-Trump rally in California. I wonder if the town name was Nuremberg. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2017, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/2740 "2017-03-26T21:15:09Z")
Don’t you libtards get tired of mocking our Dear Leader? [If you watched Real News, you’d know he just defeated the judges and terrorists opposing him!](https://youtu.be/Wd_MtxEFw7E?t=2m47s) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=136) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=138)