# The Trump Administration: A Clusterfuck in the Making **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 7, 2016, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070 "2016-12-07T00:25:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1370
**Author:** ![Section\_Maker\_Jupe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/section_maker_jupe/32/1424_2.png) [@Section\_Maker\_Jupe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Section_Maker_Jupe)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2018, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/27385 "2018-11-21T16:45:09Z")
…barely better, its bringing back images of fat mushrooms, which I had purged from the old memory. (discussion is amusing though)😃 ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2018, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/27386 "2018-11-21T18:04:13Z")
[The head of the judicial branch of government rebukes the president.](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/supreme-court/rare-rebuke-chief-justice-roberts-slams-trump-comment-about-obama-n939016?cid=sm_npd_nn_fb_ma) > [@](#): > > Roberts said Wednesday the U.S. doesn’t have “Obama judges or Trump judges, Bush judges or Clinton judges.” He commented in a statement released by the Supreme Court after a query by The Associated Press. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2018, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/27387 "2018-11-21T18:09:35Z")
John Kelly has signed an order authorizing the troops on the border to protect border agents, including “a show or use of force (including lethal force, where necessary), crowd control, temporary detention. and cursory search.” > **[White House approves use of force, some law enforcement roles for border troops](https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2018/11/21/white-house-approves-use-of-force-some-law-enforcement-roles-for-border-troops/)** > > Experts cautioned that the additional authorities may run afoul of the Posse Comitatus Act 1-This is in violation of the Posse Comitatus law. 2-Kelly is not authorized to issue orders to the military. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2018, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/27388 "2018-11-21T18:13:23Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > John Kelly has signed an order authorizing the troops on the border to protect border agents, including “a show or use of force (including lethal force, where necessary), crowd control, temporary detention. and cursory search.” > [White House approves use of force, some law enforcement roles for border troops](https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2018/11/21/white-house-approves-use-of-force-some-law-enforcement-roles-for-border-troops/) > > 1-This is in violation of the Posse Comitatus law. > 2-Kelly is not authorized to issue orders to the military. I think we have some time, some political distance to cover yet before we get into banana republic strongman territory, but this, in conjunction with the administration’s assertiveness in denying asylum, constitutes a potentially dangerous expansion of presidential power. I think as with everything else, he’s giving the finger to the constitution and challenging everyone else to stop him. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2018, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/27389 "2018-11-21T18:20:13Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > [The head of the judicial branch of government rebukes the president.](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/supreme-court/rare-rebuke-chief-justice-roberts-slams-trump-comment-about-obama-n939016?cid=sm_npd_nn_fb_ma) Bravo, John Roberts. More people need to slap that orange bastard down. (The media could assist in de-politicization of the judiciary. It usually isn’t essential that we know, for every significant ruling, the president who appointed the judge in question.) ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2018, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/27390 "2018-11-21T18:23:14Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > John Kelly has signed an order authorizing the troops on the border to protect border agents, I don’t understand how this is even legal. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2018, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/27391 "2018-11-21T18:24:23Z")
… Which is silly, because the Roberts court has presided over quite a few really significant partisan 5-4 decisions. > **[History Will Judge John Roberts if His Court’s Steady Stream of 5–4 Pro-GOP...](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/10/john-roberts-history-brett-kavanaugh-supreme-court.html)** > > John Roberts now faces a momentous choice: Does he stem the torrent of partisan 5–4 decisions benefiting big Republican interests? Or does he double down? ---
**Author:** ![gytalf2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ac91a4/32.png) [@gytalf2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gytalf2000)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2018, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/27392 "2018-11-21T18:27:26Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > [The head of the judicial branch of government rebukes the president.](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/supreme-court/rare-rebuke-chief-justice-roberts-slams-trump-comment-about-obama-n939016?cid=sm_npd_nn_fb_ma) Hey, good for him! ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2018, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/27393 "2018-11-21T18:39:02Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > [The head of the judicial branch of government rebukes the president.](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/supreme-court/rare-rebuke-chief-justice-roberts-slams-trump-comment-about-obama-n939016?cid=sm_npd_nn_fb_ma) > > > [@](#): > > > > Roberts said Wednesday the U.S. doesn’t have “Obama judges or Trump judges, Bush judges or Clinton judges.” He commented in a statement released by the Supreme Court after a query by The Associated Press. That’s as big a crock of shit as the notion that Roberts is a centrist. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2018, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/27394 "2018-11-21T18:46:28Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > That’s as big a crock of shit as the notion that Roberts is a centrist. Even if the content may be bullshit, the spirit of it is a slap at Trump. I’ll take it. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2018, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/27395 "2018-11-21T18:52:39Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > Even if the content may be bullshit, the spirit of it is a slap at Trump. I’ll take it. Me too. And if we all go back to thinking that the judiciary is non-partisan and independent, maybe someday it will actually be true. Partisanship is a vicious circle; if you start thinking that every decision is politically motivated, then everything actually does becomes politically motivated. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2018, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/27396 "2018-11-21T18:55:52Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > John Kelly has signed an order authorizing the troops on the border to protect border agents, including “a show or use of force (including lethal force, where necessary), crowd control, temporary detention. and cursory search.” > [White House approves use of force, some law enforcement roles for border troops](https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2018/11/21/white-house-approves-use-of-force-some-law-enforcement-roles-for-border-troops/) > > 1-This is in violation of the Posse Comitatus law. > 2-Kelly is not authorized to issue orders to the military. Sure, but it is covered by the press, amplified by conservative outlets and is raw meat to the base. Mission Accomplished. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2018, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/27397 "2018-11-21T18:56:57Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > John Kelly has signed an order authorizing the troops on the border to protect border agents > [@Slash1972](#): > > I don’t understand how this is even legal. I totally agree. Kelly has zero authority over the military. But will Mattis (or anybody else) refuse to carry out this order? ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2018, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/27398 "2018-11-21T19:27:13Z")
> [@Railer13](#): > > I totally agree. Kelly has zero authority over the military. But will Mattis (or anybody else) refuse to carry out this order? It’s kinda moot. There is no “caravan.” There will be no situations where it’s relevant. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2018, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/27399 "2018-11-21T19:35:49Z")
Well, if Trump’s chief of staff becomes commandant of the not-so-secret military police, I, for one, am afraid they will “discover” more and more situations in which it is relevant. Because, yanno, they said so. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2018, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/27400 "2018-11-21T20:48:24Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > I don’t understand how this is even legal. It’s not, and neither is issuing a blanket executive order denying asylum or telling people that they can’t apply for asylum because they didn’t go through a checkpoint - that’s immigration law by fiat. Again, he’s basically saying “I am the law - someone try and stop me.” He will keep getting it challenged by lower courts and he’ll tweak it just a bit so that it gets re-litigated right up to the Supreme Court (see Muslim ban 2017). Again, this president doesn’t respect the law, the rule of law, the Constitution, and he doesn’t even respect democratically-held elections. We’re in a state of national emergency: the greatest threat to the country since the period between 1850 - 1876. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2018, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/27401 "2018-11-21T21:23:12Z")
From two years ago. Khashogghi was not banned from Saudi Arabia for criticizing the government, he was banned for criticizing Trump. [Saudi Arabia bans journalist for criticising Donald Trump | The Independent | The Independent](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/saudi-arabia-donald-trump-journalist-banned-for-criticising-us-president-elect-a7456956.html)? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2018, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/27402 "2018-11-21T22:50:33Z")
Isn’t THAT interesting? Perhaps Jared needs to receive a subpeona, from either Mueller or Schiff (come January). ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2018, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/27403 "2018-11-21T23:25:39Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > It’s not, and neither is issuing a blanket executive order denying asylum or telling people that they can’t apply for asylum because they didn’t go through a checkpoint - that’s immigration law by fiat. Again, he’s basically saying “I am the law - someone try and stop me.” He will keep getting it challenged by lower courts and he’ll tweak it just a bit so that it gets re-litigated right up to the Supreme Court (see Muslim ban 2017). > > Again, this president doesn’t respect the law, the rule of law, the Constitution, and he doesn’t even respect democratically-held elections… I don’t disagree, but what do you make of the illegal order being signed by Kelly instead of by Trump? Trump isn’t one to let someone _else_ get the credit for the "shoot the brown people’ implications of the illegal order—he’d want that credit all to himself. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2018, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/27404 "2018-11-21T23:33:12Z")
It buys Trump implausible deniability. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=1369) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=1371)