# The Trump Administration: A Clusterfuck in the Making **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 7, 2016, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070 "2016-12-07T00:25:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1392
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2018, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/27825 "2018-12-06T19:25:41Z")
> [@Superdude](#): > > And remember that Rudy Giuliani is Trump’s cyber security go-to guy Why is that, anyway? Just because he appeared in commercials for Life-Lock on late-night TV? ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2018, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/27826 "2018-12-06T19:33:01Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Why is that, anyway? Just because he appeared in commercials for Life-Lock on late-night TV? He serves as the poster child of insecurity, an example of what not to do. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2018, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/27827 "2018-12-06T19:48:40Z")
[Making President Trump’s Bed: A Housekeeper Without Papers](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/06/us/trump-bedminster-golf-undocumented-workers.html) > [@](#): > > At the president’s New Jersey golf course, an undocumented immigrant has worked as a maid since 2013. She said she never imagined she “would see such important people close up.” Who would have guessed that an illegal immigrant would be working for Trump? This article does include this hilarious tidbit (bolding mine): > [@](#): > > She recalled a nervous moment in 2012, when Mr. Trump approached her and asked her to follow him to the clubhouse, a renovated 1930s Georgian manor, where he proceeded to run his fingers around the edges of frames on the wall and over table surfaces to check for dust. > > “You did a really great job,” she said he told her, and handed her a $100 bill. > > **That same year, she said, Mr. Trump had an outburst over some orange stains on the collar of his white golf shirt, which Ms. Diaz described as stubborn remnants of his makeup, which she had difficulty removing.** ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2018, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/27828 "2018-12-06T20:18:00Z")
Anyone here think **asahi** is not paranoid enough? [This thing](https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/01/presidential-emergency-powers/576418/) in _Atlantic_, might be just enough to send him right over the edge. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2018, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/27829 "2018-12-06T20:36:53Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Anyone here think **asahi** is not paranoid enough? [This thing](https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/01/presidential-emergency-powers/576418/) in _Atlantic_, might be just enough to send him right over the edge. Not going over the cliff just yet, as there’s nothing really new. My only issue with the theme of the article is the focus on Trump - it’s not just Trump who has disdain for democracy, but the entire Republican party. Nazi analogies are not at all hyperbole, because while we may not have had a krystallnacht yet, the parallels between the German fascists of the 1930s and the American plutocrats are striking, as are the parallels between the weakling conservatives in both political systems who believed that they could control them and use them for their purposes. Another parallel is the indifference and lack of alarm among the rest of the population. Our political crisis requires hyper-activism. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2018, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/27830 "2018-12-07T00:15:43Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Hey, look, Bush 41 is gone, in the ground. \*\*Let’s focus on what’s really important: hating conservatives. > > And yes, Goddamn right, I said it: hating conservatives.\*\* The lessons of Wisconsin, Michigan, and North Carolina are clear: republicans aren’t people; they’re oligarchs who are trying to steal your country from you. You have no choice but to hate their fucking existence. **And when we take power, we take fucking power and put these animals in jail.** We have to view the Republican party as American Al Qaida, American Nazis. I don’t care if they’re your family or friends - your family and friends are fucked up and there’s no getting around it, so just accept that they’re defective people and do something to save the country. > > This Christmas dinner? Tell them to make their own fucking dinner, and piss in their mixed drink when they’re not looking. > [@asahi](#): > > … **Nazi analogies are not at all hyperbole** , because while we may not have had a krystallnacht yet, the parallels between the German fascists of the 1930s and the American plutocrats are striking, as are the parallels between the weakling conservatives in both political systems who believed that they could control them and use them for their purposes. Another parallel is the indifference and lack of alarm among the rest of the population. **Our political crisis requires hyper-activism.** I go back and forth between assuming you’re a paid operative (here to smear progressives—as in “look what progressives advocate!!!”), or just a heavy drinker\*. Dude, **you are advocating for authoritarianism**. _Lock them up_ and _‘hyper-activism’_ are about as anti-democracy as it gets. \*Best-case scenario: you’re writing a parody account. Maybe as an audition for being hired at _The Onion_…? ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2018, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/27831 "2018-12-07T00:49:55Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > I go back and forth between assuming you’re a paid operative (here to smear progressives—as in “look what progressives advocate!!!”), or just a heavy drinker\*. > > Dude, **you are advocating for authoritarianism**. _Lock them up_ and _‘hyper-activism’_ are about as anti-democracy as it gets. > \*Best-case scenario: you’re writing a parody account. Maybe as an audition for being hired at _The Onion_…? While I often find asahi’s rhetoric to be a bit…over the top, I also recognize that we’re in a situation where one side has absolutely no respect for the norms. Should the other side unilaterally disarm? If we do, welcome to Trump Il-sung and all of his progeny. In other words, there are, occasionally, times where fighting fire with fire is the appropriate solution. I’m not sure we’re totally there yet, but we’re getting closer. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2018, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/27832 "2018-12-07T01:01:55Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > While I often find asahi’s rhetoric to be a bit…over the top, I also recognize that we’re in a situation where one side has absolutely no respect for the norms. Should the other side unilaterally disarm? If we do, welcome to Trump Il-sung and all of his progeny. > > In other words, there are, occasionally, times where fighting fire with fire is the appropriate solution. I’m not sure we’re totally there yet, but we’re getting closer. I agree that doing things according to some lockstep idea of ‘the usual way’ isn’t the right answer. But advocating for _ **locking people up for being Republican** _ is not only ‘not helpful’, but is so _far_ from being helpful that it seems, quite possibly, intended to be harmful to progressive causes. As in being something that outsiders could point to as an example of ‘how awful those Democrats are–look at this Democrat saying Republicans should be locked up!!’ It’s a smear on progressives (and a smear on a message board that is, we all acknowledge, dominated by progressives, at least in the sub-folders that center on politics). Actually-helpful suggestions tend to center around, not surprisingly, actual progressive ideals. Examples: peaceful protest; demands for transparency and follow-up as statutes provide (such as filing FOIA requests); calls for respect for the freedom of the press; work on countering the right’s vote-suppressing efforts; attention to the issue of protection for whistle-blowers, etc. I’m not claiming that’s a comprehensive list. But you will note that what our fellow-poster is calling for—violence—isn’t on it. Calls for violence not only won’t save us from authoritarian rule-----they will _guarantee_ authoritarian rule. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2018, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/27833 "2018-12-07T01:15:34Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > Actually-helpful suggestions tend to center around, not surprisingly, actual progressive ideals. Examples: peaceful protest; demands for transparency and follow-up as statutes provide (such as filing FOIA requests); calls for respect for the freedom of the press; work on countering the right’s vote-suppressing efforts; attention to the issue of protection for whistle-blowers, etc. I’m really not trying to carry asahi’s water for him, but those are all examples of working within the system. What do you do when the other party ignores you? > [@](#): > > Calls for violence not only won’t save us from authoritarian rule-----they will _guarantee_ authoritarian rule. Actually, calls for violence against authoritarian rule created this country. Again, not there yet, but the possibility that we will end up there is more likely than I ever thought I would see. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2018, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/27834 "2018-12-07T01:27:50Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > In other words, there are, occasionally, times where fighting fire with fire is the appropriate solution. I’m not sure we’re totally there yet, but we’re getting closer. I caught wind of some RW fluffing about how antifa showed up to counterprotest against an iii% rally in Seattle and they were open-carrying ar15s, just like the other guys[.](https://pjmedia.com/trending/antifa-goon-threatens-journalist-during-seattle-protest-death-is-coming/) The sites that had the story were all tizzified about how they harassed a poor innocent reporter (who write for some slagblot called Quillette) and the police were mean to him. So, yeah, this here water is starting to feel a bit warm. (ribbit) ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2018, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/27835 "2018-12-07T01:40:02Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > I’m really not trying to carry asahi’s water for him, but those are all examples of working within the system. What do you do when the other party ignores you? If we get to the point that voting is actually made irrelevant by successful GOP attacks on the voting system, then, yes: working within the system can’t be the only resort. Are we there, yet? We’ve seen some ugly maneuvering by the GOP. But I don’t see widespread acceptance of these measures by Americans at large. Indeed, the results of the just-passed midterms argues against the idea that the right has already succeeded in shutting down democracy entirely. > [@Zakalwe](#): > > Actually, calls for violence against authoritarian rule created this country. Again, not there yet, but the possibility that we will end up there is more likely than I ever thought I would see. I hear you, but look at the question of how nations deal with their differences now as compared with the way it was done in decades (and centuries) past. Sanctions are resorted to far more often than are nuclear weapons. There’s a reason for choosing something other than violence. There are people who find the idea of violence to be quite seductive and intoxicating. I am saying that we should not simply _accept_ the emotional preoccupations of these individuals as a guide for action. ---
**Author:** ![HelenGawn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a88e4f/32.png) [@HelenGawn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HelenGawn)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2018, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/27836 "2018-12-07T01:53:41Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Anyone here think **asahi** is not paranoid enough? [This thing](https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/01/presidential-emergency-powers/576418/) in _Atlantic_, might be just enough to send him right over the edge. Hmm… how do you suppose the “a well-regulated militia” crowd would react to an armed response? ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2018, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/27837 "2018-12-07T15:27:29Z")
> **[White House chief of staff Kelly expected to leave imminently](https://www.politico.com/story/2018/12/07/john-kelly-resign-white-house-1049705)** > > The relationship between the president and his embattled chief of staff has reached a low point. Hard to tell whether this is a rumor and nothing more, but it looks like Kelly’s departure is imminent. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2018, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/27838 "2018-12-07T15:42:32Z")
> [@HelenGawn](#): > > Hmm… how do you suppose the “a well-regulated militia” crowd would react to an armed response? The usual #notall2Anuts caveat applying but given that most of them appear to consider the only determinant for whether fascism/totalitarianism is underway is whether they get to keep their guns or not, I suspect that they’ll be just fine with it. They all lost their shit under Operation Jade Helm, a relatively innocuous military exercise, because Obama was in charge. Trump’s White House issues illegal orders to the military giving them authority to execute unarmed civilians on US soil and the response by the same militias is “Neat! Can we shoot some illegals too?”. One often hears such idiots tell themselves the lie that they are the last bulwark against fascism, but the truth is that, as long as they get to keep their guns, when fascism marches into power in America these asswipes will smile and hold the door open for it. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2018, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/27839 "2018-12-07T15:44:17Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > One often hears such idiots tell themselves the lie that they are the last bulwark against fascism, but the truth is that, as long as they get to keep their guns, when fascism marches into power in America these asswipes will smile and hold the door open for it. QFT. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2018, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/27840 "2018-12-07T16:13:11Z")
**Tillerson: Trump would ask me to do things I couldn’t legally do** [https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/420221-tillerson-trump-would-ask-me-to-do-things-that-i-couldnt-legally-do](https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/420221-tillerson-trump-would-ask-me-to-do-things-that-i-couldnt-legally-do) > [@](#): > > “So often, the president would say here’s what I want to do and here’s how I want to do it and I would have to say to him, ‘Mr. President, I understand what you want to do but you can’t do it that way. It violates the law,’ ” Tillerson said in rare public remarks in Thursday night in Houston at a fundraiser for the MD Anderson Cancer Center. > > “I’d say here’s what we can do. We can go back to Congress and get this law changed. And if that’s what you want to do, there’s nothing wrong with that. I told him I’m ready to go up there and fight the fight, if that’s what you want to do,” he added. > > Tillerson said Trump would show frustration during those conversations. Trump frustrated he couldn’t do things by fiat? I bet. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2018, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/27841 "2018-12-08T11:48:17Z")
> [@Railer13](#): > > [Making President Trump’s Bed: A Housekeeper Without Papers](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/06/us/trump-bedminster-golf-undocumented-workers.html) > > Who would have guessed that an illegal immigrant would be working for Trump? Ms. Morales is a better US citizen than Trump, and she isn’t even a legal resident. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2018, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/27842 "2018-12-08T16:35:00Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > While I often find asahi’s rhetoric to be a bit…over the top, I also recognize that we’re in a situation where one side has absolutely no respect for the norms. Should the other side unilaterally disarm? If we do, welcome to Trump Il-sung and all of his progeny. > > In other words, there are, occasionally, times where fighting fire with fire is the appropriate solution. I’m not sure we’re totally there yet, but we’re getting closer. I agree. We have an entire ‘news’ organization telling us that black is white. And people just eat it up. The facts are there. Right in front of them. But nearly half of the country doesn’t care. They would rather be lied to. FOX is prof of that. Sometimes we let criminals in a car chase get away. As it would endanger the public to stop them. What we have here though, is a run away train loaded with explosives. It must be stopped, no matter what the cost. I don’t want to codify reasonable/decent behavior. It can’t be done. Trump is the uncle that picks his nose at the dinner table. No law against that. No need to accept it though. I’m just stunned that so many accept his behavior as he rapes and pillages. He is a moron of course that knows no other way. His followers want to be able to do the same. It’s crazy that Trump supporters idolize a man that just wants to push them further down the ladder. I suspect that some know. Trump hates his supporters for being poor and needing help. And I think Trump himself is absolutely terrified of having to join their class. That’s the only thing that drives him. Let’s see. Oh yes - [The man “stated that the President of the United States says it’s OK to grab women by their private parts,” according to the FBI.](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/10/23/18013854/trump-airplane-access-hollywood-tape) These people are our neighbors. We might work with them. Or find one on an airplane. This is not a thought process that any adult should have. Trump is enabling violence and immorality. And here’s the thing. Trump thinks this is the way the world works and the way it should be. How do you begin to talk to people like this? You can’t. No more than you can convince an abuser to stop. What we don’t know about Trump scares me as much as what we do. He will forever claim that he was innocent, or railroaded. Trump, and his supporters deny facts and reason. They have found a leader in Trump. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2018, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/27843 "2018-12-08T18:17:36Z")
He doesn’t lead, he follows. He knows which way they will go, and he runs out in front of them and yells “Follow me!”. The Alpha lemming. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2018, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/27844 "2018-12-08T19:16:21Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > [https://www.politico.com/story/2018/12/07/john-kelly-resign-white-house-1049705](https://www.politico.com/story/2018/12/07/john-kelly-resign-white-house-1049705) > > Hard to tell whether this is a rumor and nothing more, but it looks like Kelly’s departure is imminent. Confirmed; Trump just announced it himself. So he’ll be looking for his 3rd CoS in \< 2 years. As Aretha said, you’re running out of fools. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=1391) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=1393)