# The Trump Administration: A Clusterfuck in the Making **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 7, 2016, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070 "2016-12-07T00:25:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1394
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2018, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/27865 "2018-12-09T15:01:57Z")
> [@dasmoocher](#): > > Don’t give Trump any ideas. He might put Hannity or Dobbs in charge. And they wouldn’t even have to leave Fox. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2018, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/27866 "2018-12-09T16:03:28Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > “churns out violent terrorists more often than Disney puts out Avengers movies.” There’s been 3 Avengers movies in 10 years. That’s not that high a rate. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2018, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/27867 "2018-12-09T16:56:05Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > There’s been 3 Avengers movies in 10 years. That’s not that high a rate. No, but we are talking about terroristic mass murder here. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2018, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/27868 "2018-12-09T17:09:30Z")
I’m just glad we got off the incel topic before I had to pick a label for myself… [del] [litany of complex-yet-pitiable social skills redacted] [/del] ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2018, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/27869 "2018-12-09T18:54:50Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > No, but we are talking about terroristic mass murder here. I just thought it was an odd thing to compare it to. > [@digs](#): > > I’m just glad we got off the incel topic before I had to pick a label for myself… > > [del] [litany of complex-yet-pitiable social skills redacted] [/del] The problem is, is that any label quickly gets hijacked by both those who wear it with the pride of a troll, and the people who use it as an insult. Incel is a perfectly fine word to describe an adult who would like more romantic activity in their life than they have, but, it has taken on a bit of a negative connotation. Men’s right’s activists sounds like a good idea. I mean, not that our rights are really being trampled upon, but there are a few niches where I feel a bit of sympathy towards the man, mostly to do with custody and child support issues, but they take things to a bit of an extreme. Men going their own way seemed a great match for me for a minute, based on the basic premise, but they mostly turned out to be a bunch of whiny assholes. Not that we really need labels, especially as even if we came up with the perfect one, it would be hijacked by assholes or haters anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2018, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/27870 "2018-12-09T19:03:41Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > The term has only recently come to have violent connotations, because of a tiny number of extremists who have acted violently. It was originally coined by a Canadian lesbian woman in the 1990s, and it wasn’t misogynistic. It merely denoted people who wanted to be in a sexual relationship, but couldn’t find a partner. To distinguish myself from the extremists, I think I’m going to start calling myself a Peaceful Incel. > > I realize this is a quixotic effort on my part, and most likely futile. Similar to the struggle of moderate Republicans. But it’s worth a try to “take back” a useful label. That boat has sailed. The sooner you swim for shore, the better. [Incels are too far to the right for even most Republicans](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nathan_Larson_(politician)#Electoral_history), which is saying something. Try this on for size: > [@](#): > > Q. Are you trying to reclaim the term “incel” or “involuntary celibacy”? > > A. No. That would be a hopeless cause. Incel now refers to an angry, male subset of the many lonely people in this world. [That, BTW, is Alanna, the creator of the incel term, quoted in her website “Love, not anger Beyond Involuntary Celibacy.”](https://sites.google.com/view/lovenotanger/faq) Here’s a hint: incel is a highly toxic term, particularly to women, so don’t hold yourself out as an incel. Hold yourself out as a person. Not “Hi, I’m a Peaceful Incel.” Not “Hi, I’m a Peaceful Misogynist.” Not “Hi, I’m a Peaceful Bitter Bastard.” Just stick with "Hi, I’m Blalron, pleased to meet you. 🙂 " ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2018, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/27871 "2018-12-09T22:46:38Z")
**Mr Trump continues to discover that good help is hard to find.** “Trump in new setback as Pence aide Nick Ayers turns down chief of staff role” Work for a sociopathic narcissist who lies to his staff and makes up policy by tweet, with an added helping of likelihood of having to testify to the grand jury and pay gobs of money to Washington lawyers? Or go home to Georgia with your young family and set up your own think tank? Decisions, decisions. [New setback for Trump as Pence aide Nick Ayers turns down chief of staff role | Donald Trump | The Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/dec/09/donald-trump-chief-of-staff-john-kelly-nick-ayers) ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2018, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/27872 "2018-12-09T22:53:39Z")
You can tell he’s about exhausted the available [DEL]suckers[/DEL] administration members who may be forced to take the job. AIUI, he’s down to choosing between Mick Mulvaney or Steve Mnuchin. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2018, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/27873 "2018-12-09T23:09:33Z")
In his house at R’lyeh, dead Chris Christie waits dreaming… ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2018, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/27874 "2018-12-09T23:19:14Z")
Obligatory [Python clip](https://youtu.be/MUG9VzHoEoc)… ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2018, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/27875 "2018-12-09T23:24:30Z")
The list of people who don’t want to get too much Trump on them keeps growing and growing. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2018, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/27876 "2018-12-09T23:47:53Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > You can tell he’s about exhausted the available [DEL]suckers[/DEL] administration members who may be forced to take the job. AIUI, he’s down to choosing between Mick Mulvaney or Steve Mnuchin. I hear Matt Whitaker is available… ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2018, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/27877 "2018-12-09T23:57:39Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > I hear Matt Whitaker is available… I was actual thinking that, at this point, what Trump needs in a Chief of Staff isn’t political nor military capacity, it’s legal. Whitaker might not be much of a lawyer, but he would still probably put a lot of focus into keeping Trump from making too many legal mistakes. I mean, granted, it’s probably already too late. But that’s only a “probably”. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2018, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/27878 "2018-12-10T00:03:01Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > I hear Matt Whitaker is available… LOL, good point! Although now we learn Mark “Me, me, meeeeee!!!” Meadows is also possibly interested in the job. Figures. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2018, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/27879 "2018-12-10T01:08:46Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > I hear Matt Whitaker is available… Not sure if you were joking or not,[but if not](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-12-09/ayers-won-t-be-trump-s-chief-of-staff-white-house-official-says): “Among those Trump is actively weighing, or has mentioned as possibilities, are Republican Representative Mark Meadows, chairman of the conservative Freedom Caucus, U.S. Trade Representative Robert Lighthizer, budget director Mick Mulvaney **and Acting Attorney General Matthew Whitaker** , according to several people familiar with the matter.” ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2018, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/27880 "2018-12-10T01:56:03Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Not sure if you were joking or not,[but if not](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-12-09/ayers-won-t-be-trump-s-chief-of-staff-white-house-official-says): > > “Among those Trump is actively weighing, or has mentioned as possibilities, are Republican Representative Mark Meadows, chairman of the conservative Freedom Caucus, U.S. Trade Representative Robert Lighthizer, budget director Mick Mulvaney **and Acting Attorney General Matthew Whitaker** , according to several people familiar with the matter.” It’s so easy to figure out what he’s going to do. Think of the dumbest move possible, and… ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2018, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/27881 "2018-12-10T02:02:53Z")
Way back in the dawn of this thread, I made a parody post in the style of Breitbart but peddling a left-wing conspiracy theory that Trump was basically owned by the Russian mob and he was afraid of them and this explained Trump’s obsequiousness toward Putin. Even though I made it clear it was satire, some posters scoffed at the idea that there was some Russian mob angle causing Trump to act the way he does. Vox again has an interesting article out and it seems my parody of two years ago may not be as far fetched as I thought it was: **Trump’s ties to the Russian mafia go back 3 decades** Journalist Craig Unger talks Russia, Trump, and “one of the greatest intelligence operations in history.” > **[Trump’s ties to the Russian mafia go back 3 decades](https://www.vox.com/world/2018/9/12/17764132/trump-fbi-russia-new-york-times-craig-unger)** > > Journalist Craig Unger talks Russia, Trump, and "one of the greatest intelligence operations in history." > [@](#): > > On November 9, 2016, just a few minutes after Donald Trump was elected president of the United States, a man named Vyacheslav Nikonov approached a microphone in the Russian State Duma (their equivalent of the US House of Representatives) and made a very unusual statement. > > “Dear friends, respected colleagues!” Nikonov said. “Three minutes ago, Hillary Clinton admitted her defeat in US presidential elections, and a second ago Trump started his speech as an elected president of the United States of America, and I congratulate you on this.” > > … > > The book claims to unpack an “untold story,” but it’s not entirely clear how much of it is new. One of the hardest things to accept about the Trump-Russia saga is how transparent it is. So much of the evidence is hiding in plain sight, and somehow that has made it harder to accept. > > But make no mistake: Trump’s ties to shady Russian figures stretch back decades, and Unger diligently pieces them together in one place. Although Unger doesn’t provide any evidence that Trump gave the Russians anything concrete in return for their help, the case he makes for how much potential leverage the Russians had over Trump is pretty damning. > > … > > The key point I want to get across in the book is that the Russian mafia is different than the American mafia, and I think a lot of Americans don’t understand this. In Russia, the mafia is essentially a state actor. When I interviewed Gen. Oleg Kalugin, who is a former head of counterintelligence in the KGB and had been Vladimir Putin’s boss at one point, I asked him about the mafia. He said, “Oh, it’s part of the KGB. It’s part of the Russian government.” > > And that’s essential to the whole premise of the book. Trump was working with the Russian mafia for more than 30 years. He was profiting from them. They rescued him. They bailed him out. They took him from being $4 billion in debt to becoming a multibillionaire again, and they fueled his political ambitions, starting more than 30 years ago. This means Trump was in bed with the Kremlin as well, whether he knew it or not. > > … > > Look, I can’t prove what was in Trump’s head, or what he knew or when he knew it. But I document something like 1,300 transactions of this kind with Russian mobsters. By that, I mean real estate transactions that were all cash purchases made by anonymous shell companies that were quite obviously fronts for criminal money-laundering operations. And this represents a huge chunk of Trump’s real estate activity in the United States, so it’s quite hard to argue that he had no idea what was going on. > > … > > Bayrock was a real estate development company located on the 24th floor of Trump Tower. The founder was a guy named Tevfik Arif and the managing director was Felix Sater, a man with numerous ties to Russian oligarchs and Russian intelligence. Bayrock proceeded to partner with Trump in 2005 and helped him develop a new business model, which he desperately needed. > > Recall that Trump was $4 billion in debt after his Atlantic City casinos went bankrupt. He couldn’t get a bank loan from anywhere in the West, and Bayrock comes in and Trump partners with other people as well, but Bayrock essentially has a new model that says, “You don’t have to raise any money. You don’t have to do any of the real estate development. We just want to franchise your name, we’ll give you 18 to 25 percent royalties, and we’ll effectively do all the work. And if the Trump Organization gets involved in the management of these buildings, they’ll get extra fees for that.” > > It was a fabulously lucrative deal for Trump, and the Bayrock associates — Sater in particular — were operating out of Trump Tower and constantly flying back and forth to Russia. And in the book, I detail several channels through which various people at Bayrock have close ties to the Kremlin, and I talk about Sater flying back and forth to Moscow even as late as 2016, hoping to build the Trump Tower there. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![romansperson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/romansperson/32/17100_2.png) [@romansperson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/romansperson)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2018, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/27882 "2018-12-10T02:08:06Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > LOL, good point! Although now we learn Mark “Me, me, meeeeee!!!” Meadows is also possibly interested in the job. Figures. I hope he’s offered and takes the job. Gets him out of NC, out of the legislature, and likely out of the new job before the end of next year. Beautiful. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2018, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/27883 "2018-12-10T02:33:53Z")
What person on Earth has so little self regard as to take that position? ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2018, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/27884 "2018-12-10T02:59:51Z")
Kushner? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=1393) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=1395)