# The Trump Administration: A Clusterfuck in the Making **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 7, 2016, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070 "2016-12-07T00:25:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1412
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2018, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/28225 "2018-12-19T15:40:23Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > This one really mattered to his evangelical base, which both needed a good excuse to support him despite his behavior (and got it in this) and basically makes up the core of republican strategy. This _was_ a “big one”. > > I’ll be honest, I can’t explain the timing. But I don’t know that it really needs explaining - sometimes, Trump just does stupid shit. This pretty much sums it up. a) His evangelical base wanted it (even more than a lot of Zionists apparently) b) Trump sometimes just acts on impulse and thinks about it later. It’s part of his ‘break stuff’ way of presidentin’ ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2018, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/28226 "2018-12-19T15:40:53Z")
I believe it was done plainly and simply to let the Palestinians know “we” weren’t on their side. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2018, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/28227 "2018-12-19T15:51:30Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Apologies for copying from my blog but… > > [Trump announces that he will pull out of Syria](https://thehill.com/policy/defense/422040-trump-signals-us-withdrawal-from-syria) > > For those not keeping track of the situation the general course of events over the last two years are that: > > 1. Jared Kushner, Benjamin Netanyahu, and Mohammed bin Salman set up a deal to join forces, oppose Iran, and push Palestine into capitulate to the Israelis. > 2. Just as they are about to pull this off, President Trump scuttles it by announcing Jerusalem as the capital of Israel, angering everyone in the Middle East. > 3. During that time, Iran starts moving troops into Syria and sets up lots and lots of bases. > 4. Also during that time, Turkey starts moving troops into Syria, claiming a chunk of it in the North for themselves. Given that Iran has to go through either Iraq or Turkey to get into Syria, it’s likely that they were moving through Turkey. > 5. Netanyahu and Putin have a wide variety of meetings. Putin convinces Netanyahu that everything is cool and that he’s on their side. > 6. Saudi Arabia commits a crime on Turkish soil. The Turks publicize this and make a strong and concerted effort to use this as a wedge between the US and Saudi Arabia, going so far as to leak details about their recordings to the press. > 7. Meanwhile, it becomes apparent that the Iranian bases in Syria are being protected by Russian jets. > 8. Trump announces that he’s leaving Syria. > > What each party wants to achieve: > > Russia wants to preserve a chaotic Middle East. They don’t want Iran to win and take everything over, Israel to rid themselves of the Palestinians, or anything else that might achieve regional stability. They are largely happy with the status quo. But they are willing to let their allies take over Syria, since the country has collapsed and isn’t useful to anyone anymore, and it brings Turkey into the fold. > > Kushner & Netanyahu want to force Iran to reform and bring peace to Israel, and are willing to play hardball and cut favors with Saudi Arabia in order to make that happen. > > Mohammed bin Salman wants to expand Saudi influence into the other countries in the Middle East while reducing the influence of Iran. > > Trump has made a strong point to stay friendly with Mohammed bin Salman in terms of what he says, but at all points in terms of what he does he has scuttled Kushner’s work and moved the US in such a way as to aid the Russian interests. > > Obviously, that could be happenstance. But there is no apparent reason for Trump to have declared Jerusalem the capital of Israel when he did. None of our allies wanted it at that moment in time, since it would ruin what they were trying to do. No one in the US was asking for it. There was no apparent precipitating event, unless we presume that the goal was explicitly to act in the favor of Russian interests. Trump is stating we have defeated Isis, although 30,000 fighters remain, as per CNN reporting. And they showed the aftermath of a major battle with them just days ago that the reporter pointed out looked like Dresden. And we’re declaring victory? I’m hoping Congress will have a say in this. They can, can’t they? In other news, Chump is doubling down on his push to arm teachers. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2018, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/28228 "2018-12-19T15:53:47Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > I’ll be honest, I can’t explain the timing. But I don’t know that it really needs explaining - sometimes, Trump just does stupid shit. Sometimes Benedict Arnold just did stupid shit when it came to the question of fortifying and repairing West Point. Trump would have known about what Kushner’s plan was. And one would expect that he believed in it and believed that it would get them to a point where he could safely fulfill his promise. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2018, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/28229 "2018-12-19T15:54:35Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > I can’t get over the fact that the president has a charity that was shut down yesterday because he and his family were stealing from it, and it’s barely a blip on the radar. I guess we are a little bit more concerned with treason. But yeah, I agree. Republicans are hypocrites. If ANYTHING even a tenth as bad had happened with Obama, they would have had kittens. ---
**Author:** ![gytalf2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ac91a4/32.png) [@gytalf2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gytalf2000)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2018, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/28230 "2018-12-19T15:56:28Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Sounds like he’s worried about his own future. For anyone else, he wouldn’t give a fuck. What a self-centered ass! He certainly deserves to be behind bars. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2018, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/28231 "2018-12-19T16:31:37Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Kushner & Netanyahu want to force Iran to reform and bring peace to Israel, and are willing to play hardball and cut favors with Saudi Arabia in order to make that happen. Minor correction: while I can’t tell you about Kushner, Israel doesn’t really care about reforms in Iran one way or another - they want Iran and its Hezbollah sock puppets, and their missiles, away from its borders, and they certainly don’t want to open a second ground front in Syria. The Iranians can do whatever they want back home, so long as it doesn’t threaten Israel. And as an aside - the U.S. stabs the Kurds in the back yet again. They really should be used to it by now. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2018, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/28232 "2018-12-19T20:12:58Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > I can’t get over the fact that the president has a charity that was shut down yesterday because he and his family were stealing from it, and it’s barely a blip on the radar. > [@enipla](#): > > I guess we are a little bit more concerned with treason. > > But yeah, I agree. Republicans are hypocrites. If ANYTHING even a tenth as bad had happened with Obama, they would have had kittens. Well, the novelty value of that would have maybe provided a justification for the continued existence of the Republican Party. But it didn’t happen, so the justification isn’t there. Burn it (the GOP) to the ground. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2018, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/28233 "2018-12-19T20:15:55Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > … I’m not even going to check Fox … They do have stories, but you have to do a site search, as I did not see any visible links to the hits, like, “_**[Trump Foundation must sell off president’s autographed Tim Tebow helmet](https://www.foxnews.com/sports/trump-foundation-must-sell-off-presidents-autographed-tim-tebow-helmet)**_”. They have achieved their goal: my head hurts ril bad now. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2018, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/28234 "2018-12-19T20:27:01Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > They have achieved their goal: my head hurts ril bad now. That is a result of the Mass Effect like indoctrination. Another week and you’d be crying for a tax cut. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2018, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/28235 "2018-12-19T21:28:09Z")
Doesn’t sound like Mattis, Bolton, nor anyone in the military had any part in the decision to leave Syria. It’s another “just out of the blue, Trump happened to do one of his stupid things.” > **[Opinion | Trump undermines his entire national security team on Syria](https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2018/12/19/trump-undermines-his-entire-national-security-team-syria/)** > > The sudden announcement of a U.S. troop withdrawal is reckless and contradicts the team's strategy. Less than a month ago, Mattis was having people building new lookout posts: > **[Mattis Orders US Troops to Set Up Observation Posts in Northern Syria](https://www.military.com/daily-news/2018/11/27/mattis-orders-us-troops-set-observation-posts-northern-syria.html)** > > U.S. troops will set up observation posts in northern Syria to help prevent partisan infighting. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2018, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/28236 "2018-12-19T21:37:37Z")
Putin needs his payback. This is it. At least partly. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2018, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/28237 "2018-12-20T00:59:52Z")
Incoming House Oversight Committee chair Elijah Cummings has issued letters to several administration officials demanding responses to questions that he has been asking for over two years. Now that he’s in charge, he’s saying if they don’t respond by January 11 he will start issuing subpoenas. > **[Top Dem sends 51 letters to Trump administration demanding information | CNN...](https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/19/politics/elijah-cummings-oversight-trump-administration/index.html?utm_term=link)** > > In a preview of the aggressive oversight Democrats plan to unleash in the next Congress, the incoming Democratic chairman of the House Oversight Committee sent more than 50 letters Wednesday to the Trump administration demanding answers about... ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2018, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/28238 "2018-12-20T01:19:22Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Incoming House Oversight Committee chair Elijah Cummings has issued letters to several administration officials demanding responses to questions that he has been asking for over two years. Now that he’s in charge, he’s saying if they don’t respond by January 11 he will start issuing subpoenas. > [https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/19/politics/elijah-cummings-oversight-trump-administration/index.html?utm\_term=link](https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/19/politics/elijah-cummings-oversight-trump-administration/index.html?utm_term=link) Two phrases I expect to see in the news a whole lot for the few months following January 2: 1. Contempt of Congress. 2. The President can’t be indicted. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2018, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/28239 "2018-12-20T01:50:55Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Doesn’t sound like Mattis, Bolton, nor anyone in the military had any part in the decision to leave Syria. It’s another “just out of the blue, Trump happened to do one of his stupid things.” > > [https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2018/12/19/trump-undermines-his-entire-national-security-team-syria](https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2018/12/19/trump-undermines-his-entire-national-security-team-syria) > > Less than a month ago, Mattis was having people building new lookout posts: > > [https://www.military.com/daily-news/2018/11/27/mattis-orders-us-troops-set-observation-posts-northern-syria.html](https://www.military.com/daily-news/2018/11/27/mattis-orders-us-troops-set-observation-posts-northern-syria.html) Whenever Trump does something out of the blue and inexplicable, just ask “How does this affect Russia?” ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2018, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/28240 "2018-12-20T04:22:10Z")
Individual-1 to CNN, 10 years ago: “I know more about campaign finance than anybody.” [https://twitter.com/aravosis/status/1075590951274463236?s=19](https://twitter.com/aravosis/status/1075590951274463236?s=19) Ruh roh. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2018, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/28241 "2018-12-20T04:41:02Z")
He’s the best at campaign finance. He hires only the best people to do campaign finance. He and his best people know the most and best about campaign finance of pretty much anybody around. Well, except for presidential stuff. Who can know these things? It’s impossible for anyone to know the laws really. ---
**Author:** ![OttoDaFe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ottodafe/32/356_2.png) [@OttoDaFe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OttoDaFe)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2018, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/28242 "2018-12-20T06:36:19Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > > [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > > > Doesn’t sound like Mattis, Bolton, nor anyone in the military had any part in the decision to leave Syria. It’s another “just out of the blue, Trump happened to do one of his stupid things.” > > > > [https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2018/12/19/trump-undermines-his-entire-national-security-team-syria](https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2018/12/19/trump-undermines-his-entire-national-security-team-syria) > > > > Less than a month ago, Mattis was having people building new lookout posts: > > > > [https://www.military.com/daily-news/2018/11/27/mattis-orders-us-troops-set-observation-posts-northern-syria.html](https://www.military.com/daily-news/2018/11/27/mattis-orders-us-troops-set-observation-posts-northern-syria.html) > > Whenever Trump does something out of the blue and inexplicable, just ask “How does this affect Russia?” Not just Russia: according to Maddow, within the last few days CFSG had at least one long discussion with the President of Turkey — and there are few things Erdogan would like more than to have the Kurds (who have been doing a great deal of the ground work against ISIS, with US air support) left “twisting slowly, slowly in the wind.” ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2018, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/28243 "2018-12-20T07:16:14Z")
Could the Syrian withdrawal be a bid ti divert attention away from all the probes on him now, Russian and otherwise? It would be just like Chump to endanger lives for his own benefit. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2018, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/28244 "2018-12-20T07:34:06Z")
Sure. He played a couple big cards today. Appeased Putin and Erdogan, threw a bone to Manafort’s tormentor, weakened the Western Alliance, betrayed the Kurds (to our everlasting shame), flipped the bird to his senior military advisors, distracted from all the probes and created general chaos. What are a few bodies and pissed off allies compared to a couple days’ distraction from his many messes? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=1411) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=1413)