# The Trump Administration: A Clusterfuck in the Making **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 7, 2016, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070 "2016-12-07T00:25:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1471
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2019, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/29405 "2019-01-13T23:17:27Z")
The latest gem from.our Great Dealmaker: > [@](#): > > Starting the long overdue pullout from Syria while hitting the little remaining ISIS territorial caliphate hard, and from many directions. Will attack again from existing nearby base if it reforms. **Will devastate Turkey economically if they hit Kurds.** Create 20 mile safe zone… (my bold) Turkey, you may recall, is a NATO ally. Didja ever think a POTUS would casually threaten economic war against _a motherfucking ally?!_ > ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2019, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/29406 "2019-01-13T23:46:52Z")
> [@Defensive\_Indifference](#): > > Turkey, you may recall, is a NATO ally. Didja ever think a POTUS would casually threaten economic war against _a motherfucking ally?!_ As much as I hate having to defend Loser Donald, I think you’re misreading him here. He seems to be saying “If Turkey attacks the Kurds, it will be bad for their economy”, not “I will devastate Turkey economically if they attack the Kurds”. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2019, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/29407 "2019-01-13T23:51:04Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > As much as I hate having to defend Loser Donald, I think you’re misreading him here. He seems to be saying “If Turkey attacks the Kurds, it will be bad for their economy”, not “I will devastate Turkey economically if they attack the Kurds”. Why would Turkey attacking Kurds hurt Turkey’s economy? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2019, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/29408 "2019-01-13T23:54:10Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > Why would Turkey attacking Kurds hurt Turkey’s economy? Who knows? I’m certainly not saying he’s _right_ or has any idea what he’s talking about. Best as I can tell, he’s trying to assure neocons that pulling out won’t result in a crackdown on the Kurds (which it almost certainly will). ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2019, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/29409 "2019-01-14T00:23:51Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > MamaPlant the Engliah teacher would be content. But “well-hanged” isn’t funny. Grandpa Rodney Dangerfield would not be content. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2019, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/29410 "2019-01-14T00:39:29Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > As much as I hate having to defend Loser Donald, I think you’re misreading him here. He seems to be saying “If Turkey attacks the Kurds, it will be bad for their economy”, not “I will devastate Turkey economically if they attack the Kurds”. [QUOTE=Individual-1] Starting the long overdue pullout from Syria while hitting the little remaining ISIS territorial caliphate hard, and from many directions. **Will** attack again from existing nearby base if it reforms. **Will** devastate Turkey economically if they hit Kurds. Create 20 mile safe zone… [/QUOTE] I am not so sure - the 2nd and 3rd paragraphs start the same and seem to imply ‘I will’’ or ‘We will’. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2019, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/29411 "2019-01-14T00:50:49Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > As much as I hate having to defend Loser Donald, I think you’re misreading him here. He seems to be saying “If Turkey attacks the Kurds, it will be bad for their economy”, not “I will devastate Turkey economically if they attack the Kurds”. We have already sanctioned Turkey. I’m reasonably sure that he’s saying that he will do more. > **[Why Trump is attacking Turkey with sanctions and tariffs](https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/10/why-trump-is-attacking-turkey-with-sanctions-and-tariffs.html)** > > Trump's moves against Turkey come at least in part in response to simmering conflicts between the two countries over military cooperation and the U.S. push for pastor Andrew Brunson's release.  ---
**Author:** ![cuauhtemoc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecb155/32.png) [@cuauhtemoc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cuauhtemoc)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2019, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/29412 "2019-01-14T01:24:11Z")
Will he follow through though? There’s no way he cares the least bit about the Kurds. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2019, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/29413 "2019-01-14T01:35:31Z")
> [@cuauhtemoc](#): > > Will he follow through though? There’s no way he cares the least bit about the Kurds. I don’t know how real Erdogan’s desire to massacre Kurds is. Sometimes, politicians are obligated to say that they’re all about doing things, when really they couldn’t give a damn or even think that it would be disastrous to do that thing. In those cases, something like this would serve as a nice fig leaf. Erdogan would be able to say, “Look, I really wanted to go out and massacre me some Kurds, but…well whaddya gonna do? America is watching.” Regrettably, my impression is that Erdogan probably is one of the people who wants to get rid of the Kurds. Granted, I doubt he wants to kill them per se, but that’s likely to be the only option, minus a magic button that makes them all slide over into Tibet or somewhere that he doesn’t have to care about. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2019, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/29414 "2019-01-14T02:57:12Z")
> [@Defensive\_Indifference](#): > > Didja ever think a POTUS would casually threaten economic war against _a motherfucking ally?!_ He already did: steel tariffs against Canada because we are a security risk. ---
**Author:** ![cuauhtemoc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecb155/32.png) [@cuauhtemoc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cuauhtemoc)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2019, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/29415 "2019-01-14T03:04:38Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > I don’t know how real Erdogan’s desire to massacre Kurds is. Sometimes, politicians are obligated to say that they’re all about doing things, when really they couldn’t give a damn or even think that it would be disastrous to do that thing. In those cases, something like this would serve as a nice fig leaf. Erdogan would be able to say, “Look, I really wanted to go out and massacre me some Kurds, but…well whaddya gonna do? America is watching.” > > Regrettably, my impression is that Erdogan probably is one of the people who wants to get rid of the Kurds. Granted, I doubt he wants to kill them per se, but that’s likely to be the only option, minus a magic button that makes them all slide over into Tibet or somewhere that he doesn’t have to care about. Not sure if I made myself clear… I meant would the president follow through with sanctions if Erdogan did try attacking the Kurds. My thinking was that he probably wouldn’t, because I’m sure he doesn’t care about the Kurds, and plus he likes the idea of strongmen doing whatever they want with no consequences. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2019, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/29416 "2019-01-14T03:16:03Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > As much as I hate having to defend Loser Donald, I think you’re misreading him here. He seems to be saying “If Turkey attacks the Kurds, it will be bad for their economy”, not “I will devastate Turkey economically if they attack the Kurds”. The news media are interpreting his comment as Trump threatening to unleash economic dévastion on Turkey. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2019, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/29417 "2019-01-14T03:38:30Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > We have already sanctioned Turkey. > [@Muffin](#): > > He already did: steel tariffs against Canada because we are a security risk. Both good points, and thanks for the education/reminders. I saw the tweet and the reactions to it and erroneous thought that this was some new stupidity. I failed to realize/remember that in fact he’d already picked economic fights with allies. It is hard to keep up. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2019, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/29418 "2019-01-14T04:01:58Z")
Which has led me to ask in more than one occasion: does the US still have “Allies”, or just other countries with whom the US has treaties, for now? It’s a fairly significant point for Canada, since the US has decided we’re now a security risk. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2019, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/29419 "2019-01-14T04:18:03Z")
Didn’t Henry Kissinger say something like, “countries have no permanent friends, only interests”? Unfortunately our interests are now determined by a marginally literate sociopath. But, really, why would we want an alliance with Canada, a country with whom we have only a history of shared military sacrifice, deep cultural and economic ties, and the longest undefended border on the planet? Fuck you guys! ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2019, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/29420 "2019-01-14T04:22:30Z")
Although it will be tremendously difficult, I thing that it would be in our best interest to economically untangle ourselves from the USA, for it is declining, and with decline comes lashing out by populists. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2019, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/29421 "2019-01-14T04:29:24Z")
The supposed security risk was not Canada, but the US not having the capacity to be able to manufacture its own necessary supply of steel during wartime. And even that excuse was only contrived in order for Trump to claim the unilateral authority to impose the tariff so he could get some leverage in trade talks. Nobody actually considers Canada a security risk. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2019, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/29422 "2019-01-14T04:31:51Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > Although it will be tremendously difficult, I thing that it would be in our best interest to economically untangle ourselves from the USA, for it is declining, and with decline comes lashing out by populists. I believe that would be rash and I can only hope that our neighbor to the North can find it in their collective heart to stand by us, in what is obviously a difficult time many of us are trying to rectify, in the faith that this will pass. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2019, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/29423 "2019-01-14T05:21:30Z")
The US Trade Representative to Canada told the US Senate that Canada was a security threat: > [@](#): > > **US trade representative Robert Lighthizer** faced pointed questioning from a Senate committee Thursday about the decision, and at one point **was asked directly if Canada was a national security threat to the United States.** > > **“In the case of steel, yes,” he said.** Sworn testimony in the US Senate: the US government believes Canada is a security risk to the United States. > **[Lighthizer calls Canada a national security threat in defence of steel tariffs](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/article-lighthizer-calls-canada-a-national-security-threat-in-defence-of-steel/)** > > Under pointed questioning from a Senate committee, U.S. trade representative Robert Lighthizer is testifying today about the administration’s trade policy and 2019 budget ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2019, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/29424 "2019-01-14T07:54:29Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > The US Trade Representative to Canada told the US Senate that Canada was a security threat: > > Sworn testimony in the US Senate: the US government believes Canada is a security risk to the United States. > > [Lighthizer calls Canada a national security threat in defence of steel tariffs - The Globe and Mail](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/article-lighthizer-calls-canada-a-national-security-threat-in-defence-of-steel/) If you’re a kid and you have an older brother who bullies people into being nice to you, makes your food for you, does most of your homework for you, etc. and then he moves off to college and you’re left unable to do almost anything for yourself, then there is an argument to be made that your brother was a threat to you despite that everything he ever did was nice. If the US needs to have a functioning steel production base of a particular amount, in terms of being able to ensure that we have a basic minimum of self-sufficiency in case of an emergency and all unforeseeable futures, and its being undercut by Canadian business, then Canada is (in the specific realm of steel) a national security threat. Not in the sense that they’re being malicious, just in the sense that some things you just need to be self-sufficient on. But, that doesn’t mean that we need to set tariffs on Canada. There is more than one way to try and catch a mouse and most of those ways are stupid, you could try blasting it with a sawed-off shotgun, you could try sending ambassadors to reason with it, you could pray to the gods of sanitation, you could roll around on the floor naked to spread your oils in the hope that it hates the scent of humans…or you could just use an off-the-shelf, professionally made mouse trap. Only a few solutions are actual, smart, and reasonable solutions. Most are not, if you actually go through the effort to consider every possibility that some crank or idiot could come up with. I have seen a few people defend Trump on the basis that he’s working to fight illegal immigration and he’s working to bring manufacturing back, and so on and etc. But they ignore that his strategies for doing it are moronic and self-harming. You would be better off doing nothing, in the long run. So even if you’re all in on his platform, that doesn’t mean that you should support him. The implementation really does matter. Presenting the issue as that Canada is being nefarious only makes the world a harder place to live in. Tariffing Canada doesn’t solve the problem with American steel. A simple solution is simply to subsidize the industry, but there are probably other options as well. The one we chose is stupid and self-harming. Basically, don’t let your brain stop at the surface of how things appear and sound. If you do that, you may be missing that there’s a pretty sharp turn just past that point. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=1470) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=1472)