# The Trump Administration: A Clusterfuck in the Making **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 7, 2016, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070 "2016-12-07T00:25:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1545
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2019, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/30885 "2019-02-28T11:06:46Z")
So now Trump can say he got shot down in Vietnam. (Though no doubt he’ll actually say he was stabbed in the back by the Fake News Witch Hunt Russia Hoax…) ---
**Author:** ![catflea12](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f6c823/32.png) [@catflea12](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catflea12)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2019, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/30886 "2019-02-28T11:37:11Z")
The bestest deal maker EVAR, my ass. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2019, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/30887 "2019-02-28T14:03:46Z")
> [@catflea12](#): > > The bestest deal maker EVAR, my ass. And once again, I have to half-way stick up for the orange idiot. Apparently, Kim wanted sanctions lifted for partial denuclearization, and Trump (much to my surprise) declined. I would have thought his desire for a “win” would have resulted in him accepting any semi-spinnable deal. ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2019, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/30888 "2019-02-28T14:14:02Z")
> [@Folacin](#): > > And once again, I have to half-way stick up for the orange idiot. Apparently, Kim wanted sanctions lifted for partial denuclearization, and Trump (much to my surprise) declined. I would have thought his desire for a “win” would have resulted in him accepting any semi-spinnable deal. I have a feeling Pompeo may have exerted some influence in this case, perhaps in the form of saying he would not be willing to spin such a deal at all. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2019, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/30889 "2019-02-28T14:20:09Z")
> [@catflea12](#): > > The bestest deal maker EVAR, my ass. Kims as big of a lier as Trump (albeit a little shorter 😃 ) And for some strange reason, they can’t make a deal. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2019, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/30890 "2019-02-28T14:23:45Z")
> [@Folacin](#): > > And once again, I have to half-way stick up for the orange idiot. Apparently, Kim wanted sanctions lifted for partial denuclearization, and Trump (much to my surprise) declined. I would have thought his desire for a “win” would have resulted in him accepting any semi-spinnable deal. It’s been clear from the outset that Kim was after sanctions being lifted in exchange for promising to take the first steps towards beginning a process that might eventually lead to something vaguely similar to denuclearization without any actual impact on DPRK’s nuclear capabilities. Because that’s how the Kim family rolls. That Trump was willing to talk at all suggested that he was willing to drop sanctions in exchange for promises (sure to be broken) that he could trumpet as a win, so I’m a bit confused as to why he’d have gone to the summit in the first place if he was going to walk out on that sort of offer. I know, I know, man is convinced of his own god-like negotiating capabilities and delusionally thought threatening to walk out\* would get a better offer from Kim. \*So far as I can tell threatening to walk is the sum total of what Trump knows about negotiating strategy. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2019, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/30891 "2019-02-28T14:39:32Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > So now Trump can say he got shot down in Vietnam. Aw, man, I just came in here to post that. I just stole it fair and square from somebody on Twitter. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2019, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/30892 "2019-02-28T14:42:02Z")
> [@Folacin](#): > > And once again, I have to half-way stick up for the orange idiot. Apparently, Kim wanted sanctions lifted for partial denuclearization, and Trump (much to my surprise) declined. I would have thought his desire for a “win” would have resulted in him accepting any semi-spinnable deal. You’re right - walking away was the right move. Going to Vietnam with no deal in sight was stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2019, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/30893 "2019-02-28T15:14:53Z")
> [@Folacin](#): > > And once again, I have to half-way stick up for the orange idiot. Apparently, Kim wanted sanctions lifted for partial denuclearization, and Trump (much to my surprise) declined. I would have thought his desire for a “win” would have resulted in him accepting any semi-spinnable deal. Didn’t Trump come back from the first summit saying that North Korea was no longer a nuclear threat? I wonder how many times Kim can sell him the same bridge. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2019, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/30894 "2019-02-28T15:17:10Z")
Not to worry. Trump will find someone else to blame. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2019, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/30895 "2019-02-28T15:41:57Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > It’s been clear from the outset that Kim was after sanctions being lifted in exchange for promising to take the first steps towards beginning a process that might eventually lead to something vaguely similar to denuclearization without any actual impact on DPRK’s nuclear capabilities. Because that’s how the Kim family rolls. That Trump was willing to talk at all suggested that he was willing to drop sanctions in exchange for promises (sure to be broken) that he could trumpet as a win, so I’m a bit confused as to why he’d have gone to the summit in the first place if he was going to walk out on that sort of offer. I know, I know, man is convinced of his own god-like negotiating capabilities and delusionally thought threatening to walk out\* would get a better offer from Kim. > > \*So far as I can tell threatening to walk is the sum total of what Trump knows about negotiating strategy. The pettiness and small-mindedness of the man is truly something to behold. Where Trump struggles with understanding his job is _scope_. It’s the complexity of it that escapes him; he cannot understanding something that complicated. The so-called Trump Organization might seem like a big business to us, but in the world of big business it’s a very small operation - in the United States it would never really have been one of the one thousand biggest companies, by any measure, and its business is relatively straightforward. Trump is small time, by the standards of REAL giants of industry, and the US government is bigger still. “I am gonna walk out if you don’t give me what I want” is a small-minded person’s tactic. If you are negotiating small things, it’s a fine tactic. It works if you are negotiating with a guy over scalped Yankees tickets, or you’re buying a Honda Civic. If you’re negotiating something of enormous importance, complexity and nuance, where your adversary has done thousands of hours of background research on you and what your tendencies are, you’d better have a lot more tools in your box. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2019, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/30896 "2019-02-28T16:19:40Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > You’re right - walking away was the right move. Going to Vietnam with no deal in sight was stupid. Don’t you think thump scheduled the whole Asian trip to distract from his own personal Watergate? He probably thought his trip would “trump” (as it were) local goings-on. Of course, he didn’t plan on coming home a _loser_… oops. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2019, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/30897 "2019-02-28T16:57:42Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > The pettiness and small-mindedness of the man is truly something to behold. Where Trump struggles with understanding his job is _scope_. It’s the complexity of it that escapes him; he cannot understanding something that complicated. > > The so-called Trump Organization might seem like a big business to us, but in the world of big business it’s a very small operation - in the United States it would never really have been one of the one thousand biggest companies, by any measure, and its business is relatively straightforward. Trump is small time, by the standards of REAL giants of industry, and the US government is bigger still. > > “I am gonna walk out if you don’t give me what I want” is a small-minded person’s tactic. If you are negotiating small things, it’s a fine tactic. It works if you are negotiating with a guy over scalped Yankees tickets, or you’re buying a Honda Civic. If you’re negotiating something of enormous importance, complexity and nuance, where your adversary has done thousands of hours of background research on you and what your tendencies are, you’d better have a lot more tools in your box. I’ve heard the Trump Organization described as a Mom-n-Pop business with no Mom. Trump seems to have also been surrounded by yes-men of limited mental acuteness who never contradicted him. I think the only real businesses he’s ever been in charge of with shareholders and a board have been the casinos, which he bankrupted. Someone once described his private business MO of stiffing contractors as “ill-suited” to foreign policy and trade–to paraphrase: “There’s not another Canada you can go to after you’ve screwed them over.” ---
**Author:** ![aurora\_maire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aurora_maire/32/328_2.png) [@aurora\_maire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aurora_maire)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2019, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/30898 "2019-02-28T19:09:35Z")
So Trump says Kim didn’t know about Otto Warmbier’s torture. Like MBS didn’t know about KKhashoggi’s murder. And Putin didn’t know about election interference. Wow, these strongmen sure don’t seem to be able to control their underlings who keep going rogue. You would think Donald would consider that kind of person a loser. ---
**Author:** ![Frazzled](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frazzled/32/3368_2.png) [@Frazzled](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frazzled)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2019, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/30899 "2019-02-28T19:17:36Z")
> [@aurora\_maire](#): > > So Trump says Kim didn’t know about Otto Warmbier’s torture. Like MBS didn’t know about KKhashoggi’s murder. And Putin didn’t know about election interference. Wow, these strongmen sure don’t seem to be able to control their underlings who keep going rogue. You would think Donald would consider that kind of person a loser. Yeah, Trump said that Kim “Felt very badly about it”. He blamed Warmbier’s death on the prison and the brutality that took place there. Never mind that that prison is run on the orders of Kim. Never mind that it’s used for political purposes as a way to instill fear in the population for the benefit of the Kim family. Kim is directly responsible for the brutality that takes place in the countries prisons, including the torture that Warmbier was subjected to, and Trump publicly gives him a pass because “he felt bad”. ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2019, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/30900 "2019-02-28T19:25:06Z")
If he criticizes a murderous authoritarian, they’ll never let him in the club. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2019, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/30901 "2019-02-28T19:26:41Z")
> [@dasmoocher](#): > > … > > I think the only real businesses he’s ever been in charge of with shareholders and a board have been the casinos, which he bankrupted. > > Someone once described his private business MO of stiffing contractors as “ill-suited” to foreign policy and trade–to paraphrase: “There’s not another Canada you can go to after you’ve screwed them over.” I’m beginning to think that both the casinos failing and the stiffing of contractors were purposefully done as part of Individual-1’s money laundering operation. In any case, his only negotiation tactic of “give me everything I want” had never not worked before. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2019, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/30902 "2019-02-28T19:27:29Z")
> [@aurora\_maire](#): > > So Trump says Kim didn’t know about Otto Warmbier’s torture. Like MBS didn’t know about KKhashoggi’s murder. And Putin didn’t know about election interference. Wow, these strongmen sure don’t seem to be able to control their underlings who keep going rogue. You would think Donald would consider that kind of person a loser. This may not be playing well with even Trump’s surrogates. Khashoggi was a foreign journalist who worked for the _Washington Post_, so that’s three strikes against him in Trump’s book. But Warmbier was an American citizen. [Santorum: Trump’s decision to side with Kim on Otto Warmbier was ‘reprehensible’](https://edition.cnn.com/2019/02/28/politics/rick-santorum-otto-warmbier-trump/index.html) > [@](#): > > \*\*Washington (CNN) \*\*President Donald Trump’s decision not to hold North Korean dictator Kim Jong Un responsible for Otto Warmbier’s death was “reprehensible,” former Republican Sen. Rick Santorum said Thursday. > > “This is the conundrum of Donald Trump for many of us who like his policies and don’t like a lot of the things he does and says,” Santorum said of the decision to CNN’s John Berman on “New Day.” > > “But, this is reprehensible, what he just did. He gave cover, as you said, to a leader who knew very well what was going on with Otto Warmbier,” Santorum, who is a CNN political commentator, said. “And again, I don’t understand why the President does this. I am disappointed, to say the least, that he did it.” Oh, Santorum’s disappointed. That makes it OK, I guess, that you’re a shill for a buffoon that consistently sides with and praises dictators, especially Putin, who is our #1 adversary. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2019, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/30903 "2019-02-28T19:28:23Z")
> [@Frazzled](#): > > Yeah, Trump said that Kim “Felt very badly about it”. He blamed Warmbier’s death on the prison and the brutality that took place there. Never mind that that prison is run on the orders of Kim. Never mind that it’s used for political purposes as a way to instill fear in the population for the benefit of the Kim family. Kim is directly responsible for the brutality that takes place in the countries prisons, including the torture that Warmbier was subjected to, and Trump publicly gives him a pass because “he felt bad”. Unindicted co-conspirator Donald John Trump is hoping for the same sort of pass. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2019, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/30904 "2019-02-28T19:35:06Z")
> [@dasmoocher](#): > > I’ve heard the Trump Organization described as a Mom-n-Pop business with no Mom. Trump seems to have also been surrounded by yes-men of limited mental acuteness who never contradicted him. > > I think the only real businesses he’s ever been in charge of with shareholders and a board have been the casinos, which he bankrupted. > > Someone once described his private business MO of stiffing contractors as “ill-suited” to foreign policy and trade–to paraphrase: “There’s not another Canada you can go to after you’ve screwed them over.” Also the tactic of just walking away from a bad deal is very different in national government than it is in the real estate business. If two sides can’t come to an agreement and a building doesn’t get built, that is just the way things go. You walk away, forget about it and move on to the next deal. But if two sides can’t come to an agreement and the government shuts down you can’t just walk away. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=1544) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=1546)