# The Trump Administration: A Clusterfuck in the Making **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 7, 2016, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070 "2016-12-07T00:25:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1612
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2019, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/32225 "2019-05-01T01:14:22Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > Seriously, there are innumerable photos and videos of Trump riding while others walk, nodding off during summit meetings, etc. etc. > > Apparently Democrats feel it’s beneath their dignity to make use of these obvious signs that Trump is unfit for the office he holds. Nice to be high-minded, I guess, but this type of material is in that tiny category of “stuff that would actually bother Trump’s fans if they ever saw it.” > > And it’s all true. It’s not ‘fake.’ So, why not _use_ it to show the unfitness? > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > That’s not really a button the Democrats can push. There’s two ways to legally remove a President from office in the middle of his term. One is to impeach him for criminal charges and the other is to invoke the 25th Amendment and declare he’s unable to carry out the duties of the office. > > Obviously riding a golf cart isn’t a crime. So the Democrats would have to argue that it’s evidence that Trump is physically unable to remain President. > > The first problem is you’d have to convince people that’s a real issue. Most people would point out that while Trump may be lazy and out of shape, it doesn’t make it impossible for him to be President. And the Republicans would quickly bring up the issue of Franklin Roosevelt to demonstrate that physical fitness is not a Presidential job requirement. > > The second issue is that the Democrats can’t invoke the 25th Amendment even if Trump slips into a coma. The body that decides a President is unfit to do the job is the Vice President and the cabinet. And while Pence might go for it, you’re not going to get a majority of the cabinet to agree. > > There is one slight possibility. The Constitution does give Congress the power to establish some other body which can declare a President unfit. They’ve never done so but it would be legal for them to set up a Commission on Presidential Fitness. But we can assume the Republican majority in the Senate would vote against such a body. I appreciate your thoughtful response, most of which I agree with. However—and I could have been more explicit—I wasn’t thinking of removal via the 25th, but in terms of _removal via electoral defeat_. In other words, I’m urging the eventual Democratic candidate and allied groups to leaven the usual commercials about Trump being a lawless bully, with commercials showing him to be a brain-damaged buffoon. This is because the ‘lawless bully’ commercials will motivate the left to get out and vote, but won’t really touch those Trump voters who aren’t his hardcore base but yet still voted for him. Those people are basically okay with being a bully and with being above the law (sad to say). But those people do NOT like to be associated with A Loser. Someone who’s incapable of reading a teleprompter, someone who’s despised by most of the world (show those Baby Trump balloons!), someone who’s so out of it that he’s always wandering away from the limo or 'copter he’s supposed to be boarding, someone who can’t figure out how to close an umbrella… These are facts about Trump that a lot of people who voted for him _will actually be bothered by_.\* They don’t like weakness. They don’t like being laughed at, and they won’t like the evidence that so many laugh at Trump. There are SO many videos and photos, by now, of Trump being not merely a rude and crude bully, but of being…a fool. A laughing-stock. They should be used in the campaign. In my initial post I worried that Democrats would feel that using this material would be beneath their dignity, and I’m still worried about it. But the rationale ‘this shows he is unfit’ is true, and it could convince them that using the material is the right thing to do. I hope. \*Admittedly, the most hardcore white-supremacists won’t be swayed by anything less than Trump walking into Congress (meaning lots of witnesses, so no chance the video is faked), taking down his pants, bending over a table, and begging a black drag queen to beat his naked ass with a magazine with a photo of Colin Kaepernick on its cover. That would be hard for the white-supremacists to put aside. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2019, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/32226 "2019-05-01T01:46:13Z")
Those photos and videos aren’t secret. They’re not hidden. They’re out there, publicly available. But his supporters just plain DO NOT BELIEVE they’re REAL. “Fake news!” You’re not going to ever convince a die-hard Trumpie that any of those images are actually Trump being stupid, clumsy, incompetent or weird. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2019, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/32227 "2019-05-01T03:33:14Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Those photos and videos aren’t secret. They’re not hidden. They’re out there, publicly available. But his supporters just plain DO NOT BELIEVE they’re REAL. “Fake news!” You’re not going to ever convince a die-hard Trumpie that any of those images are actually Trump being stupid, clumsy, incompetent or weird. Now that “deepfakes” are so easy to make, there is absolutely no possible way to convince a Trumpie that he ever does anything bad. ---
**Author:** ![Gus\_Gusterson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/85f322/32.png) [@Gus\_Gusterson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gus_Gusterson)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2019, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/32228 "2019-05-01T11:33:50Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > There are SO many videos and photos, by now, of Trump being not merely a rude and crude bully, but of being…a fool. A laughing-stock. His supporters believe the video they want to believe and call everything else fake. Jim Acosta totally hit that White House intern. There’s video to prove it. Trump didn’t say that stuff about women with Billy Bush. The video is fake. And even if he did say it, so what? It’s just locker room talk. The umbrella was broken. It wasn’t toilet paper it was, I don’t know what it was, but Obama wore a tan suit. There’s no reaching these morons. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2019, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/32229 "2019-05-01T12:55:17Z")
[Samantha Be does a pretty good job of insulting Trump.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqT4A250CuM) ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2019, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/32230 "2019-05-01T15:09:51Z")
> [@Gus\_Gusterson](#): > > His supporters believe the video they want to believe and call everything else fake. Jim Acosta totally hit that White House intern. There’s video to prove it. Trump didn’t say that stuff about women with Billy Bush. The video is fake. And even if he did say it, so what? It’s just locker room talk. The umbrella was broken. It wasn’t toilet paper it was, I don’t know what it was, but Obama wore a tan suit. There’s no reaching these morons. That’s true. There are morons who will never be convinced. We should write them off. But they don’t make up 51% of the country. Trump needs to win over some people who aren’t morons. And I think he’s losing those people. I’m not concerned about Trump winning the 2020 election. I’m concerned we’ll have a repeat of 2016 (or 2000). Trump will again come in second place but he’ll again end up getting awarded the presidency anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2019, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/32231 "2019-05-01T15:17:35Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > I appreciate your thoughtful response, most of which I agree with. > > However—and I could have been more explicit—I wasn’t thinking of removal via the 25th, but in terms of _removal via electoral defeat_. In other words, I’m urging the eventual Democratic candidate and allied groups to leaven the usual commercials about Trump being a lawless bully, with commercials showing him to be a brain-damaged buffoon. > > This is because the ‘lawless bully’ commercials will motivate the left to get out and vote, but won’t really touch those Trump voters who aren’t his hardcore base but yet still voted for him. Those people are basically okay with being a bully and with being above the law (sad to say). > > But those people do NOT like to be associated with A Loser. Someone who’s incapable of reading a teleprompter, someone who’s despised by most of the world (show those Baby Trump balloons!), someone who’s so out of it that he’s always wandering away from the limo or 'copter he’s supposed to be boarding, someone who can’t figure out how to close an umbrella… > > These are facts about Trump that a lot of people who voted for him _will actually be bothered by_.\* They don’t like weakness. They don’t like being laughed at, and they won’t like the evidence that so many laugh at Trump. > > There are SO many videos and photos, by now, of Trump being not merely a rude and crude bully, but of being…a fool. A laughing-stock. > > They should be used in the campaign. In my initial post I worried that Democrats would feel that using this material would be beneath their dignity, and I’m still worried about it. But the rationale ‘this shows he is unfit’ is true, and it could convince them that using the material is the right thing to do. > > I hope. Personally, I think the Democrats should switch directions. They can still keep the Russian influence issue alive but they should shift their main focus to corruption. There’s really strong evidence that Trump has been taking bribes since day one. And bribery is something that the Constitution explicitly lists as grounds for impeachment. And I think it would work better with the public image issue you raised. A presidential candidate colluding with a foreign country is an abstract issue for many people. But a politician enriching themselves by taking bribes is a crime people can understand. The Democrats should stop trying to show Trump as Kim Philby and start showing his as Boss Hogg. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2019, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/32232 "2019-05-01T16:17:17Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > The Democrats should stop trying to show Trump as Kim Philby and start showing his as Boss Hogg. Wouldn’t work. The Republicans [literally have a Boss Hogg impersonator running for office in NC](https://www.wfae.org/post/gop-candidate-stony-rushing-mark-harris-son-didnt-know-what-he-was-talking-about#stream/0) and it doesn’t seem to bother them at all. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2019, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/32233 "2019-05-01T22:38:18Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > That’s true. There are morons who will never be convinced. We should write them off. > > But they don’t make up 51% of the country. Trump needs to win over some people who aren’t morons. And I think he’s losing those people. > > I’m not concerned about Trump winning the 2020 election. I’m concerned we’ll have a repeat of 2016 (or 2000). Trump will again come in second place but he’ll again end up getting awarded the presidency anyway. Yes. The ‘believe Trump is Perfect no matter what’ contingent is far short of 51%. There are a lot of people who voted for him but are not his ardent fans. Those people are reachable. And the copious evidence that Trump is a ridiculous buffoon will work better than the evidence that he’s a cruel bully. (Though the latter is still worth documenting for the way it turns out the vote on the left.) > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Personally, I think the Democrats should switch directions. They can still keep the Russian influence issue alive but they should shift their main focus to corruption. > > There’s really strong evidence that Trump has been taking bribes since day one. And bribery is something that the Constitution explicitly lists as grounds for impeachment. > > And I think it would work better with the public image issue you raised. A presidential candidate colluding with a foreign country is an abstract issue for many people. But a politician enriching themselves by taking bribes is a crime people can understand. > > The Democrats should stop trying to show Trump as Kim Philby and start showing his as Boss Hogg. Seems reasonable to me, though I would like to see an emphasis on Trump being compromised, too (as opposed to being ‘in league with Putin’ and such). The ‘he’s compromised’ information ties in with the corruption, so you get both areas of Trump’s unfitness. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2019, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/32234 "2019-05-01T23:22:06Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > The ‘he’s compromised’ information ties in with the corruption, so you get both areas of Trump’s unfitness. How much does it take to bribe a billionaire? ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2019, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/32235 "2019-05-01T23:42:50Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > How much does it take to bribe a billionaire? 1. Is he even a billionaire? 2. With trump, money isn’t the object. Treat him like he’s the smartest man in the room, and he’ll give you whatever you want. Ask Kim. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2019, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/32236 "2019-05-01T23:55:32Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > 1. Is he even a billionaire? > > 2. With trump, money isn’t the object. Treat him like he’s the smartest man in the room, and he’ll give you whatever you want. Ask Kim. Who the heck is Kim? Oh yeah, that guy. They are in love. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2019, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/32237 "2019-05-02T00:07:53Z")
Does he know that Kim is cheating on him with some Chinese guy? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2019, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/32238 "2019-05-02T00:21:59Z")
He’s not two-timing Trump. He’s _three_-timing him! Don’t forget about that Russian dude. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2019, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/32239 "2019-05-02T00:28:33Z")
Heh. The short-fingered vulgarian is wearing the horns as well as the blinders. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2019, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/32240 "2019-05-02T00:37:09Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > He’s not two-timing Trump. He’s _three_-timing him! Don’t forget about that Russian dude. That fat little slut with a bad haircut gets around! ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2019, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/32241 "2019-05-02T00:42:20Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > He’s not two-timing Trump. He’s _three_-timing him! Don’t forget about that Russian dude. Yeah, the guy who [forgets his shirt](http://thefingnews.com/russia-tests-u-s-emboldened-weakness-trumps-brain/putin-on-horseback/) when he goes horseback riding. Hey! That is a western saddle! :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Fair\_Rarity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fair_rarity/32/153_2.png) [@Fair\_Rarity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fair_Rarity)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2019, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/32242 "2019-05-02T01:15:29Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > 1. Is he even a billionaire? I spent a lot of time thinking about this today. Is there any concrete evidence that he is a billionaire? Besides his saying he is? And if you add up the value of the properties we think are in his name, should they count? Aren’t they the Trump Org, not him specifically? And if something is worth $20mil and he owes $19mil on it or even $25mil on it… should that be taken into account? Should we be generous in our estimating? Rick Wilson on [twitter](https://twitter.com/TheRickWilson/status/1123271580992319488): > [@](#): > > As I recounted in my book, my galaxy brain moment on Trump was when a billionaire hedge fund manager said to me, “Trump’s not a billionaire. I’m a billionaire. Trump is a clown living on credit.” ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2019, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/32243 "2019-05-02T01:54:43Z")
> [@Fair\_Rarity](#): > > I spent a lot of time thinking about this today. Is there any concrete evidence that he is a billionaire? Besides his saying he is? And if you add up the value of the properties we think are in his name, should they count? Aren’t they the Trump Org, not him specifically? And if something is worth $20mil and he owes $19mil on it or even $25mil on it… should that be taken into account? Should we be generous in our estimating? > > Rick Wilson on [twitter](https://twitter.com/TheRickWilson/status/1123271580992319488): Trump figured out the importance of collateral and cash flow, and he also figured out that when you owe the bank $100,000 dollars the bank owns you but when the banks owe you $100 million dollars, you owe them. He used his debt to strike a deal that enabled him to keep his name relevant for licensing. He also figured out a way to use his property as collateral, but more importantly, he uses his property to strike deals with international criminals who want safe places to keep their money. Real estate is versatile like that. ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2019, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/32244 "2019-05-02T02:28:10Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > but when the banks owe you $100 million dollars, you owe them. I assume you meant something like “but when you owe the banks $100 million dollars, you own them”? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=1611) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=1613)