# The Trump Administration: A Clusterfuck in the Making **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 7, 2016, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070 "2016-12-07T00:25:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1621
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2019, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/32405 "2019-05-12T22:42:34Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > There is nothing that Trump or any US president can do to stop China from overtaking the US as the world’s most powerful country. In fact, what we’re doing now, not just with China but with bilateral behavior with other countries, ensures that our decline relative to China will occur more rapidly. **What would be wiser instead would be to coordinate with other countries and gang up on China** , and force their economy and their society to be more open and transparent. To be fair, I don’t think Trump is the only president to have missed opportunities with China, but he’s the only one who is delusional enough to believe that we have the power to prevent China from becoming a global equal to the United States – that is laughably insane thinking. AKA the Trans-Pacific Partnership. (my emphasis) > [@](#): > > The Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) was the centerpiece of President Barack Obama’s strategic pivot to Asia. Before President Donald J. Trump withdrew the United States in 2017, the TPP was set to become the world’s largest free trade deal, covering 40 percent of the global economy. > > For its supporters, such a deal would have expanded U.S. trade and investment abroad, spurred economic growth, lowered consumer prices, and created new jobs, while also advancing U.S. strategic interests in the Asia-Pacific region. … > **[What’s Next for the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP)?](https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/what-trans-pacific-partnership-tpp)** > > Though President Trump withdrew from the TPP, the remaining members of the trade pact have forged ahead with a new version, leaving the U.S. role in the Asia-Pacific in question. The idiot Trump is certain that one-on-one deals are best, so working together with other nations is _out_. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/32406 "2019-05-13T00:55:55Z")
[Top WH adviser Kudlow admits US consumers pay tariffs](https://apnews.com/b8b68b10a50d4b509c31b7e9428b0f11) > [@](#): > > The White House’s top economic adviser acknowledged Sunday that U.S. consumers and businesses pay the tariffs that the Trump administration has imposed on billions of dollars of Chinese goods, even as President Trump himself insisted in a tweet, incorrectly, that China pays. Let’s go to the quarry and throw stuff down there! Nothing like publicly calling out your boss’s lies as he’s making them! Only the best! ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/32407 "2019-05-13T01:42:07Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > AKA the Trans-Pacific Partnership. (my emphasis) > [What’s Next for the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP)? | Council on Foreign Relations](https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/what-trans-pacific-partnership-tpp) > > The idiot Trump is certain that one-on-one deals are best, so working together with other nations is _out_. Something like a TPP. Whether TPP actually was good for the US, whether it would have given the US clout without giving away more power to China, I don’t know. But principally, yes, multilateral trade with rules that prohibit the kinds of things China’s doing. Or if nothing else, maybe rework TPP into something else that starts without China but includes them once they’ve agreed in principle to the concerns that we have. But trying to bully China with one-on-one tactics risks turning not just the government but the whole of China against the United States for a long time to come. Even if we shock China’s economy into a temporary crisis, they would recover. Moreover, we it’s doubtful we could hurt China without hurting ourselves in the process. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/32408 "2019-05-13T13:37:21Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > [Top WH adviser Kudlow admits US consumers pay tariffs](https://apnews.com/b8b68b10a50d4b509c31b7e9428b0f11)Let’s go to the quarry and throw stuff down there! Nothing like publicly calling out your boss’s lies as he’s making them! Only the best! In response to Kudlow’s admission, Trump _does_ appear to be backing off his insistence that China is paying for the tariff, rather than US companies. But he’s still insisting that it’s hurting China worse than it hurts the US: > **[Trump says tariffs hurt only China, but top adviser Kudlow admits 'both sides...](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/05/13/trump-defends-tariffs-after-kudlow-admits-us-companies-bear-cost/1186468001/)** > > "There is no reason for the U.S. Consumer to pay the Tariffs, which take effect on China today," Trump said. But his top economic adviser disagrees. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/32409 "2019-05-13T13:41:36Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > [Top WH adviser Kudlow admits US consumers pay tariffs](https://apnews.com/b8b68b10a50d4b509c31b7e9428b0f11)Let’s go to the quarry and throw stuff down there! Nothing like publicly calling out your boss’s lies as he’s making them! Only the best! The funny thing is looking at reporting about the DJIA’s current (as I type this) 500 point slide is that much of the blame is being put on _Kudlow’s admission_ and not _the actual policies themselves_. Of course, everyone dumping right now knew before Kudlow that Americas consumers are paying the tariffs, but as long as the lie was maintained, we could fool ourselves and keep the capital markets high. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/32410 "2019-05-13T13:49:00Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > In response to Kudlow’s admission, Trump _does_ appear to be backing off his insistence that China is paying for the tariff, rather than US companies. But he’s still insisting that it’s hurting China worse than it hurts the US Of course, that may be true. Also of course, it’s an incredibly stupid way to gauge the intelligence of a policy. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/32411 "2019-05-13T14:50:47Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > In response to Kudlow’s admission, Trump _does_ appear to be backing off his insistence that China is paying for the tariff, rather than US companies. But he’s still insisting that it’s hurting China worse than it hurts the US: > > [Trump defends tariffs after Kudlow admits U.S. companies bear cost](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/05/13/trump-defends-tariffs-after-kudlow-admits-us-companies-bear-cost/1186468001/) So it rather seems this boneheaded trade war is due to Donald’s lack of understanding about who actually pays the tariffs. You just know that knucklehead thinks that if he imposes a 25% tariff on China, that the Chinese government writes a check to the US treasury. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/32412 "2019-05-13T15:18:41Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > So it rather seems this boneheaded trade war is due to Donald’s lack of understanding about who actually pays the tariffs. You just know that knucklehead thinks that if he imposes a 25% tariff on China, that the Chinese government writes a check to the US treasury. Well, he has been telling all of America that is the way it works for months now. So it was either a deliberate lie or he simply didn’t know. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/32413 "2019-05-13T16:10:42Z")
He knows enough about tariffs to [exclude Ivanka’s businesses from them.](http://fortune.com/2018/07/09/donald-trumps-china-tariffs-dont-apply-to-ivanka/) ---
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/32414 "2019-05-13T16:55:57Z")
The problem with this idiot policy, for both countries, is that China is probably our biggest supplier of manufactured goods, particularly the really really cheap stuff and the high-tech stuff, and we are probably their biggest market for those goods, except maybe the EU as a whole. No one is going to win from this. Except the Trumps, who are no doubt lining their pockets as fast and deeply as they can. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/32415 "2019-05-13T17:00:25Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Well, he has been telling all of America that is the way it works for months now. > > So it was either a deliberate lie or he simply didn’t know. And all of his advisors have doubtlessly been telling him “Brilliant! Hundreds of billions of free dollars coming into the treasury from China!” He does something completely stupid and there are no adults in the room to take his toys away until he calms down. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/32416 "2019-05-13T18:13:41Z")
The IMPORTANT thing is that it will make someone else HURT. This is the kind of reasoning the Base loves. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/32417 "2019-05-13T23:06:16Z")
> [@Morgyn](#): > > …No one is going to win from this. Except the Trumps, who are no doubt lining their pockets as fast and deeply as they can. I have no doubt that Trump et al expect to make bundles of cash from this upheaval. But Putin’s probably pleased by it all. If his scary neighbor China is distracted by the turmoil, while the USA becomes increasingly weakened economically, that’s all good for Vlad. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/32418 "2019-05-13T23:42:03Z")
> [@Ukulele\_Ike](#): > > The IMPORTANT thing is that it will make someone else HURT. > > This is the kind of reasoning the Base loves. No. The reasoning they love is they believe it will make someone else hurt. In reality, it’s making all America hurt, except, of course, Trump and his. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2019, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/32419 "2019-05-14T00:03:29Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > No. The reasoning they love is they believe it will make someone else hurt. In reality, it’s making all America hurt, except, of course, Trump and his. There’s ample evidence that the bulk of trumpsters will gladly shoot their own foot if it hurts their enemies’ feet worse. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2019, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/32420 "2019-05-14T00:34:25Z")
The trade war’s short-term consequences may or may not matter; it’s the longer-term consequences that will make fewer headlines but will punish us again and again. Trump is a fucking bullshitter. He has absolutely no strategy. He surrounds himself with ideologues who do have a strategy but who really have no fucking clue how the world or how an economy works. These morons, from Stephen Miller, to John Bolton, to Peter Navarro are just a bunch of shit house poets passing themselves off as intellects. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2019, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/32421 "2019-05-14T00:42:21Z")
You would think that Trump supporters would be suffering from terminal cognitive dissonance when they see that the reaction to tariffs, which are supposed to be so wonderful for the US economy, is that they cause the stock market to tank. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2019, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/32422 "2019-05-14T00:44:24Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > You would think that Trump supporters would be suffering from terminal cognitive dissonance when they see that the reaction to tariffs, which are supposed to be so wonderful for the US economy, is that they cause the stock market to tank. I’m waiting to see if Trump congratulates himself when the Dow climbs above 25,000. Again. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2019, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/32423 "2019-05-14T00:49:06Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > You would think that Trump supporters would be suffering from terminal cognitive dissonance when they see that the reaction to tariffs, which are supposed to be so wonderful for the US economy, is that they cause the stock market to tank. The stock market hasn’t tanked – a 600 point drop isn’t what it used to be. It just hasn’t grown much, and it probably won’t. I’m not even sure this really hurts Trump supporters, many of whom are billionaires who have it made no matter what. Others are a bunch of yokels who believe that Trump was sent here by God to outlaw abortion and give them slavery again. It’s the middle of the road morons who couldn’t decide between Trump, Sanders, Gary Johnson, Jill Stein, Danny Boneduce, Donny Osmond, their pet cat, or simply not voting. Those idiots might begin to understand that they’ve kinda fucked themselves, but wait til the stock market goes down to about 15,000 or 10,000 before we’re really sure of that. ---
**Author:** ![Skypist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skypist/32/169_2.png) [@Skypist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skypist)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2019, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/32424 "2019-05-14T00:51:58Z")
Speaking of his base, this is rich. > [@](#): > > “The President of the United States owes farmers like myself some type of plan of action,” John Wesley Boyd Jr., a soybean farmer in Baskerville, Virginia, told CNN’s Brianna Keilar on Monday. **Owes**? The article includes several other quotes that makes these farmers sound pretty entitled. I thought people who love tRump and Fox “News” hated handouts and regarded any money or services given to the average joe as “entitlements” and therefore to be avoided at all costs, preferably earmarking that money for the noble wealthy and large corporations instead. Plus, they actually took him seriously and thought that when he claimed the talks with China were going well, they could count on that and plant more soybeans!? [https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/13/politics/farmers-china-tariffs-trump/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/13/politics/farmers-china-tariffs-trump/index.html) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=1620) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=1622)