# The Trump Administration: A Clusterfuck in the Making **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 7, 2016, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070 "2016-12-07T00:25:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1655
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2019, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/33085 "2019-05-31T04:45:04Z")
> [@jasg](#): > > We have a new tariff! Winning another trade war! > > [Trump hitting Mexico with 5% tariff in response to migrants](https://www.apnews.com/afec271c5f9c4fdb82f57b48cb593add) > > (Avocado toast is going to get expensive…) Trump threw out NAFTA and negotiated a new trade agreement with Mexico and Canada, right? I don’t think it’s been ratified yet. Does anyone know if Trump’s new tariff violates Trump’s trade agreement? ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2019, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/33086 "2019-05-31T04:47:00Z")
> [@sta3535](#): > > **I haven’t heard/seen this much news about a president since George Bush back in the 2000’s.** CNN has a field day because that’s the only way they can handle such a tragic loss, and they’re working adults! > > IMO, they should just accept the L & wait until 2024 because let’s be honest, Biden/Sanders vs. Trump? > > On an extra note, no one is perfect in life. We all make mistakes here & there because we’re human. However, Trump’s “errors” have been significant enough to the point of no return (Ex. His Bus Conversation) How many Presidents do you remember? I mean directly? Aren’t you 21? ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2019, 10:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/33087 "2019-05-31T10:34:40Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > Not to mention, to whatever degree this economically “punishes” Mexico, that just makes it MORE likely that some Mexicans will seek work in the US. > > Truly a stable genius. Not only that, but we actually need their cooperation to stop the flow of migrants. Threatening your largest and most economically important neighbor to the South shows Mexico that Trump doesn’t understand jack shit about the problem. Trump: Mexico needs to fix the border NOW! Tariffs if they don’t! Mexico: Oh? You think there’s an immigration problem now? Heh! Heh! ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2019, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/33088 "2019-05-31T10:43:05Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Not only that, but we actually need their cooperation to stop the flow of migrants. Can’t we just stop migrants with the occasional warning shot? ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2019, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/33089 "2019-05-31T12:21:11Z")
[North Korea executes envoy in a purge after failed U.S. summit](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-northkorea-usa-purge/north-korea-executes-envoy-in-a-purge-after-failed-u-s-summit-media-idUSKCN1T02PD). You just know that Donnie Thinskin is thinking that this is so unfair. Why can’t he execute people who fail him? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2019, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/33090 "2019-05-31T12:27:19Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > Of course Mexico is paying for the tariffs, how else Mexico is going to pay for Trump’s border wall? :smack: Oh right, i forgot! ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2019, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/33091 "2019-05-31T12:50:30Z")
I just saw a clip of Barr saying Trump is not the one who is breaking political norms–it’s the people who started the Russian interference investigation who have broken the norms. :smack: Trump, the guy who attacks the press and courts, wants his political opponents investigated by the DOJ and “locked up”, alienates allies and cozies up to dictators, and is out to milk his presidency for as much personal financial gain as possible is normal. Seriously, WTF? It makes you wonder if Barr is compromised by the Russians. ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2019, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/33092 "2019-05-31T12:53:35Z")
I think Barr has lost his fucking mind. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2019, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/33093 "2019-05-31T13:01:48Z")
> [@The\_Tooth](#): > > Yes. Every ten minutes or so. As hard as it is to believe, it doesn’t seem to stick. I’d say the advice would go in one ear and out the other, but it got stopped by all that bone in the middle. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2019, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/33094 "2019-05-31T13:07:17Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > I’d say the advice would go in one ear and out the other, but it got stopped by all that bone in the middle. Or as I heard it: It goes in one ear and out the other, because there’s nothing in between to slow it down. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2019, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/33095 "2019-05-31T13:22:41Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > For the second time in 2 months, a [man has set himself on fire](https://www.yahoo.com/news/man-set-himself-fire-near-110522374.html) outside 1600, near the Ellipse. Arnav Gupta died in a hospital later last night. > [@Procrustus](#): > > I’m surprised he survived the first time. > [@dropzone](#): > > Too soon? Kinda. He shoulda waited at least six months. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2019, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/33096 "2019-05-31T14:06:00Z")
I don’t know if this has been posted here or in another thread, but it addresses a question I’ve had for a while: > [@](#): > > **Does Trump genuinely believe his own trade war rhetoric?** > > Lately, Donald Trump has falsely claimed – on a nearly daily basis – that China is paying the United States massive amounts of money as a result of the White House’s tariffs policy. > > … > > All of which leads to a relevant question with a murky answer: does Trump genuinely believe his own nonsense? > > There are really only two possible answers. The first is that the president understands reality and peddles this odd lie every day as part of a cynical scheme to deceive the public. The alternative is that Trump, even now, doesn’t yet understand the most basic details of his own trade agenda – ostensibly one of his signature issues, on which he claims to have vast expertise. > > So, which is it? Axios spoke to several current and former administration officials, asking whether Trump actually believes his falsehood. The “consensus” was the president has been entirely sincere, touting the falsehood because he chooses to believe it’s true. > > One former aide told Axios that trying to encourage Trump to accept reality is pointless because the president’s bogus beliefs are “like theology.” > > This is, of course, deeply depressing for reasons that have little to do with the economy, and everything to do with Trump’s capacity for learning. One of the most important jobs a president has is consuming an enormous amount of information and being able to separate what’s true from what’s false, what’s credible from what’s dubious, and what’s important from what’s trivial. > … > > I’m reminded of something Ezra Klein wrote in late 2017: “Over the course of reporting on the Trump White House, I have spoken to people who brief Trump and people who have been briefed by him. I’ve talked to policy experts who have sat in the Oval Office explaining their ideas to the president and to members of Congress who have listened to the president sell his ideas to them. I’ve talked to both Democrats and Republicans who have occupied these roles. In all cases, their judgment of Trump is identical: He is not just notably uninformed but also notably difficult to inform – his attention span is thin, he hears what he wants to hear, he wanders off topic, he has trouble following complex arguments. Trump has trouble following his briefings or even correctly repeating what he has heard.” > > Is it any wonder, then, that every knowledgeable source has told the president that China isn’t paying us billions through tariffs, only to find that Trump believes his nonsense anyway? > > The fact that the president is impervious to reality has made any prospects for a meaningful debate on the issue effectively impossible. For Trump, this simply does not matter: he has his version of reality, and he likes it just fine, regardless of the chasm between it and the reality the rest of us live in. > > Postscript: Complicating matters, the president’s ignorance on the matter is more than just exasperating. The Washington Post’s Greg Sargent argued persuasively yesterday that Trump needs his falsehood about China and tariffs to be true – even though it clearly isn’t – or the politics of his trade agenda will quickly collapse like a house of cards. > **[Does Trump genuinely believe his own trade war rhetoric?](https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/does-trump-genuinely-believe-his-own-trade-war-rhetoric-msna1229571)** > > The fact that Trump is impervious to reality when it comes to China and tariffs matters for reasons that extend beyond the economy. That Trump actually believes his insane idea about how tariffs work is alarming, but that Congress – including the unmovable and recalcitrant Senate – would allow this to continue is damned near unbelievable. Aren’t many of them businessmen, whose livelihood will be disrupted by policies shaped by our divorced-from-reality president? Surely they can’t ALL be total partisan hacks – or, at least, you’d think the ones who didn’t have Alien Seed Pods under their beds would have by now forced their fellow senators to confront reality. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2019, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/33097 "2019-05-31T14:12:36Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Can’t we just stop migrants with the occasional warning shot? No, you’re thinking of anti-vaxxers > [@running\_coach](#): > > He _knows_ how tariffs work. Exactly the way he thinks they work. And no one can tell him different. It’s not whether or not he knows how tariffs work. He has no excuse not to, but I don’t know if he can grasp the concept or not. His base, OTOH, has no idea, and believes they work however he says they work. > [@Slash1972](#): > > Why don’t reporters ask him this question? “Mr. President, do you think China and Mexico are paying these tariffs?” I seem to remember seeing clips where they did, and he deflected or dissembled and implied that the exporting country was paying them. > [@Smapti](#): > > “My good friend Kim Jong-Un, who is making North Korea strong and great, has told me he had nothing to do with the execution of Corrupt and Crooked “Hyukster” Chol. H would be in jail if our Justice system was strong as his!” MAGA! ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2019, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/33098 "2019-05-31T14:30:21Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > I don’t know if this has been posted here or in another thread, but it addresses a question I’ve had for a while: > > [Does Trump genuinely believe his own trade war rhetoric?](http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/does-trump-genuinely-believe-his-own-trade-war-rhetoric) > > That Trump actually believes his insane idea about how tariffs work is alarming, but that Congress – including the unmovable and recalcitrant Senate – would allow this to continue is damned near unbelievable. > > Aren’t many of them businessmen, whose livelihood will be disrupted by policies shaped by our divorced-from-reality president? Surely they can’t ALL be total partisan hacks – or, at least, you’d think the ones who didn’t have Alien Seed Pods under their beds would have by now forced their fellow senators to confront reality. And his base will yell “FAKE NEWS! Trump is always the smartest guy in the room!” I actually had one guy tell me that. And, if I couldn’t see that, it’s because I watch and listen to the MSM who are conspiring and brainwashing people against Trump (and then he sent me a link to a Breitbart article or something similar). :smack: I think yesterday at his White House lawn rant Trump claimed we were taking in billions from China. And now he thinks tariffs on Mexico will stop immigration. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2019, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/33099 "2019-05-31T14:32:59Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > I don’t know if this has been posted here or in another thread, but it addresses a question I’ve had for a while: > > [Does Trump genuinely believe his own trade war rhetoric?](http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/does-trump-genuinely-believe-his-own-trade-war-rhetoric) > > That Trump actually believes his insane idea about how tariffs work is alarming, but that Congress – including the unmovable and recalcitrant Senate – would allow this to continue is damned near unbelievable. > > Aren’t many of them businessmen, whose livelihood will be disrupted by policies shaped by our divorced-from-reality president? Surely they can’t ALL be total partisan hacks – or, at least, you’d think the ones who didn’t have Alien Seed Pods under their beds would have by now forced their fellow senators to confront reality. This is The Great Mystery. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2019, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/33100 "2019-05-31T14:37:40Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > Jeepers, Trumps has something like two dozen lawyers working for him full-time, including the Attorney Fucking General of the United States. Don’t any of them ever even attempt to explain this shit to him? > [@The\_Tooth](#): > > Yes. Every ten minutes or so. As hard as it is to believe, it doesn’t seem to stick. I wouldn’t be so sure about the AG doing that. McCabe’s descriptions of meetings with the gnome are terrifying and the current seat-warmer doesn’t seem better. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2019, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/33101 "2019-05-31T14:40:23Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > He _knows_ how tariffs work. Exactly the way he thinks they work. And no one can tell him different. > [@k9bfriender](#): > > It’s not whether or not he knows how tariffs work. He has no excuse not to, but I don’t know if he can grasp the concept or not. > > His base, OTOH, has no idea, and believes they work however he says they work. Good point. I guess from a certain perspective, “how tariffs work” is dependent on what you want them to do. The ignorant base may be bamboozled into thinking that they’re a way to extract money from a foreign nation, but for the America-hating fuckstick, their purpose is to make the ignorant base happy, and secure their approval and votes. By that measure, the tariffs seem to be working perfectly. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2019, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/33102 "2019-05-31T14:45:44Z")
> [@Ike\_Witt](#): > > You just know that Donnie Thinskin is thinking that this is so unfair. Why can’t he execute people who fail him? Thinking it? He’s probably asked this question at cabinet meetings. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2019, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/33103 "2019-05-31T14:52:23Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > This is The Great Mystery. Meh. They probably got enough dough. They hope to make more through Trumps deregulation. Or perhaps a bit of insider trading if they have their ear to the ground. Like Trump, they don’t give a shit about anyone but themselves. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2019, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/33104 "2019-05-31T14:59:25Z")
> [@dasmoocher](#): > > And his base will yell “FAKE NEWS! Trump is always the smartest guy in the room!” > > I actually had one guy tell me that. And, if I couldn’t see that, it’s because I watch and listen to the MSM who are conspiring and brainwashing people against Trump (and then he sent me a link to a Breitbart article or something similar). :smack: > > I think yesterday at his White House lawn rant Trump claimed we were taking in billions from China. And now he thinks tariffs on Mexico will stop immigration. Near as I can tell, Trump has made it abundantly clear that he believes tariffs somehow instantly make manufacturing costs cheaper in the US than overseas. In my view, he knows perfectly well that consumers are paying the bulk of the tariffs, but that the payoff will supposedly be (in some rosy future) happy, humming US factories again, staffed by grateful workers who want nothing more than to spend their lives screwing one part into another, assuming that a machine isn’t better at doing that instead. Of course the issue is far more complicated than Trump’s absurdly simplistic take on it, but we are dealing with perhaps the most intellectually lazy President in history. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=1654) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=1656)