# The Trump Administration: A Clusterfuck in the Making **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 7, 2016, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070 "2016-12-07T00:25:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1657
**Author:** ![MindsEye\_Watering](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mindseye_watering/32/3619_2.png) [@MindsEye\_Watering](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MindsEye_Watering)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2019, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/33125 "2019-05-31T19:52:38Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > Once again the Democrats are dropping the ball then it comes to using word choice to frame the debate. The Republicans are masters of this, giving us Death Taxes, Obamacare, and partial birth abortions. From now on no Democrat should banish the word Tariff from their vocabulary. Instead they should use call them import taxes. Rather than saying Trump’s Tariffs on China are hurting the economy they should say, Trump’s taxes on Americans importing goods from China are hurting the economy. I suggest **“United States MAGAtax.”** ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2019, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/33126 "2019-05-31T19:54:00Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Once the wall is built, all those illegals will leave, thereby freeing up jobs for the hundreds of thousands of currently jobless Americans who will pick fruits and vegetables for minimum wage. #MAGA! [H]undreds of thousands of currently jobless Americans? Fake News!!! I have it on good authority–the President, himself–that the US economy is so mighty that unemployment has all but been eliminated. Not like those fake numbers Obama made up when he was ruining the economy! (A relevant article: [The hypocrisy of Trump’s jobs claims, in one chart](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/1/30/18203611/trump-jobs-numbers-obama-economy-state-of-the-union) \*Trump used to say jobs numbers were fake. Now he says the news is. \*) ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2019, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/33127 "2019-05-31T19:56:19Z")
Let’s not call it a tax; let’s call it a freedom surcharge. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2019, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/33128 "2019-05-31T20:14:17Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > The trade war goes beyond economics. He has a staff of anti-China, Inc hawks, who believe that the United States has to be the dominant global power, and that we have to make China capitulate to American pressure. In some regards, there are some parallels between how the US viewed Japan in the 1930s and how we view China now. > > China’s strategy is to wear down the current administration and hope that farmers get tired of losing out on trade. It doesn’t want to take extreme measures like selling a significant portion of US treasuries because that would end up hurting them as much as us. It would also make the world less sympathetic to the Chinese and they than are now. > > But if this doesn’t stop soon, China will be pushed into a corner. I’ve said this before, but the USA does not have a hope in hell if things start to get real. China can endure a famine that kills 60 million people. Not a problem. The USA will crumble if Netflix shuts down for 3 days. US citizens would cry uncle if they were reduced to a choice of only 20 kinds of soda. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2019, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/33129 "2019-05-31T20:17:43Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > I’ve said this before, but the USA does not have a hope in hell if things start to get real. China can endure a famine that kills 60 million people. Not a problem. > > The USA will crumble if Netflix shuts down for 3 days. US citizens would cry uncle if they were reduced to a choice of only 20 kinds of soda. That’s the weird thing. A friend of mine who I argue with on facebook to pass the time, seems to know that China isn’t paying the tariffs. But he thinks that they are hurting China more, and the longer this goes on, the more China will hurt until America “wins” somehow. No matter how many stories I show him of farmers and lobstermen and consumers having it bad in America, the response is “So? China has it worse and one day they will be beaten!” I still don’t get that. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2019, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/33130 "2019-05-31T20:34:00Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > that’s the weird thing. A friend of mine who i argue with on facebook to pass the time, seems to know that china isn’t paying the tariffs. But he thinks that they are hurting china more, and the longer this goes on, the more china will hurt until america “wins” somehow. No matter how many stories i show him of farmers and lobstermen and consumers having it bad in america, the response is “so? China has it worse and one day they will be beaten!” > > i still don’t get that. "because 'merica!!! ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2019, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/33131 "2019-05-31T20:53:48Z")
Yeah, China will eventually get beaten. Because the Chinese population has had no prior experience with adversity. ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2019, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/33132 "2019-05-31T21:07:37Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > I can’t wait until all americans get to toil in the fields for minimum wage. (heh, just kidding, MW will be repealed.) > > Fortunately, our merit based immigration system will make sure that our high skilled jobs are filled. > > Americans in the fields, and the Chinese in the boardrooms, this is the MAGA vision of america. Yep, this is what I see happening as well with a slight exception: The Americans won’t be working in the field and crops will be left to rot. And we’ll all pay a lot more for our produce thanks to our lucrative tariffs. MAGA indeed! ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2019, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/33133 "2019-05-31T21:47:34Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > And in response to increased pressure from frustrated voters, the GOP’s solution is to continue weakening democracy so that people face stiffer consequences for criticizing them in public. Economically, Trump and the GOP will eventually set up a system in which loyalists and those who suffer in silence are rewarded, and those who complain or challenge them will be targets for retribution. I have the sense that the “reward” for suffering in silence will amount to not much more than not being the target for quite as much of the retribution… ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2019, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/33134 "2019-05-31T22:55:51Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > I’ve said this before, but the USA does not have a hope in hell if things start to get real. China can endure a famine that kills 60 million people. Not a problem. > > The USA will crumble if Netflix shuts down for 3 days. US citizens would cry uncle if they were reduced to a choice of only 20 kinds of soda. China basically has a monopoly on the rare earth market. Rare earth elements are necessary for smartphones. And Xi is now hinting he might maybe cut off America because of the trade war. How long do you think Americans would go without their smartphones? ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2019, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/33135 "2019-05-31T23:13:35Z")
Is the DOJ considered the Trump administration yet? You know, officially? Because I’m not sure where else to post this. (I would post it in Elections, but I’ve noticed that anything that RIGHTLY expresses outrage or disbelief about Trump related matters that is posted there gets moved to the Pit.) Anyway, on with the WTF. Remember when the law meant any fucking thing in this country? Yeah, me too. "Federal prosecutors on Friday declined to make public transcripts of recorded conversations between Michael Flynn and Russia’s ambassador to the United States in December 2016, despite a judge’s order. In a court filing Friday, the Justice Department wrote that it did not rely on such recordings to establish Flynn’s guilt or determine a recommendation for his sentencing. Prosecutors also failed to release an unredacted version of portions of the [Mueller report](https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2019/politics/read-the-mueller-report/?tid=a_inl_auto) related to Flynn that the judge had ordered be made public. Flynn, who served briefly as President Trump’s first national security adviser, pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI about his conversation with Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak, and he cooperated with special counsel Robert S. Mueller III’s investigation. He is awaiting sentencing. " > **[Justice Department does not comply with court order to release transcripts of...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/justice-department-fails-to-comply-with-court-order-to-release-transcripts-of-michael-flynns-conversations-with-russian-ambassador/2019/05/31/9b4a6754-83b8-11e9-95a9-e2c830afe24f_story.html?utm_term=.42c1f0eb3b51)** > > Federal prosecutors also declined to release an unredacted version of portions of the Mueller report related to Flynn. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2019, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/33136 "2019-05-31T23:31:41Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > Is the DOJ considered the Trump administration yet? You know, officially? Because I’m not sure where else to post this. (I would post it in Elections, but I’ve noticed that anything that RIGHTLY expresses outrage or disbelief about Trump related matters that is posted there gets moved to the Pit.) Anyway, on with the WTF. > Remember when the law meant any fucking thing in this country? Yeah, me too. > > "Federal prosecutors on Friday declined to make public transcripts of recorded conversations between Michael Flynn and Russia’s ambassador to the United States in December 2016, despite a judge’s order. > In a court filing Friday, the Justice Department wrote that it did not rely on such recordings to establish Flynn’s guilt or determine a recommendation for his sentencing. > Prosecutors also failed to release an unredacted version of portions of the [Mueller report](https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2019/politics/read-the-mueller-report/?tid=a_inl_auto) related to Flynn that the judge had ordered be made public. > Flynn, who served briefly as President Trump’s first national security adviser, pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI about his conversation with Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak, and he cooperated with special counsel Robert S. Mueller III’s investigation. He is awaiting sentencing. " > [https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/justice-department-fails-to-comply-with-court-order-to-release-transcripts-of-michael-flynns-conversations-with-russian-ambassador/2019/05/31/9b4a6754-83b8-11e9-95a9-e2c830afe24f\_story.html?utm\_term=.42c1f0eb3b51](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/justice-department-fails-to-comply-with-court-order-to-release-transcripts-of-michael-flynns-conversations-with-russian-ambassador/2019/05/31/9b4a6754-83b8-11e9-95a9-e2c830afe24f_story.html?utm_term=.42c1f0eb3b51) IIRC, these requests were from Judge Emmet Sullivan. I’m sure, based on what I have read of this judge, he will just say “Ok, fine. Sorry to have bothered you.” :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2019, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/33137 "2019-05-31T23:35:51Z")
A Canadian Judge? I double my WTF! ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2019, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/33138 "2019-05-31T23:41:26Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > I’ve said this before, but the USA does not have a hope in hell if things start to get real. China can endure a famine that kills 60 million people. Not a problem. > > The USA will crumble if Netflix shuts down for 3 days. US citizens would cry uncle if they were reduced to a choice of only 20 kinds of soda. China has something to lose. They could be pushed into a deep recession. Their economy is a lot more leveraged now than it was a decade or so ago, particularly in terms of real estate and start-ups, so there could be real pain. But they will, like any economy, find a way to crawl out of the recession, and they’ve found an economic formula that will work, and one that will be attractive to foreign investors. And the inescapable truth is that the world wants to do business in China. They have something most of the world does not: a billion-consumer market. China could get knocked down, but it’s delusional to believe they’d stay down. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2019, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/33139 "2019-06-01T01:44:55Z")
> [@dasmoocher](#): > > If you can’t watch the video, the guy’s point is that the US gets half its fruits and vegetables from Mexico (I don’t know if that’s actually true). Tariffs on imported produce make them more expensive and so should increase demand for domestic produce. Increased demand should drive increased production. Increased production means more labor will be needed. > > Where does Trump think manual farm labor comes from? Manuel, the farm laborer? I’m assuming the _real_ back story to the latest verbal chundering by our cloth-eared git of President is intended as having another go at forcing Democrats to fund the Stupid Fucking Wall (SFW): “Hey, remember when we tried holding the federal government hostage for the SFW? Okay, so it didn’t quite work the way we hoped. Clearly, we weren’t thinking big enough. Let’s hold the entire economy hostage!” Meanwhile, who the hell is ever going to negotiate in good faith with the USA again? After more than a year of manufactured drama over supposedly getting a more advantageous (to the US) trade deal with Mexico, under threat of punitive tariffs, the administration effectively says, well thanks, suckers, and now we’re implementing tariffs anyway. Christ, and I’m not even allowed to drink any more. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2019, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/33140 "2019-06-01T01:47:38Z")
The good news is the economy grew at 3.1% in the first quarter! I guess the President is doing A-OK despite you naysayers. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2019, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/33141 "2019-06-01T02:06:17Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > The good news is the economy grew at 3.1% in the first quarter! I guess the President is doing A-OK despite you naysayers. I used to give you the benefit of the doubt, but even you can’t believe the President decides whether the economy rises or falls. Did you think Obama was awesome when the economy was recovering? You’re not even trying that Fighting Ignorance stuff, are you? ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2019, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/33142 "2019-06-01T02:19:31Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > Manuel, the farm laborer? [say Grace](https://i.pinimg.com/736x/1f/18/dc/1f18dc5252afa211293fc1656d8f235b--thank-you-jesus-jesus-is.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2019, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/33143 "2019-06-01T03:08:00Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > … > Meanwhile, who the hell is ever going to negotiate in good faith with the USA again? … Inexplicably, some are still expecting Donnie to start acting like a grown-up. **What Confrontation? Mexico Seeks a Compromise With Trump** > **[What Confrontation? Mexico Seeks a Compromise With Trump (Published 2019)](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/31/world/americas/mexico-trump-tariffs-migrants.html)** > > President López Obrador said he wanted to avoid a fight with President Trump over his threats to impose tariffs unless Mexico cracked down on migrants. > [@](#): > > MEXICO CITY — From the moment he took office, President Andrés Manuel López Obrador has studiously avoided a fight with President Trump, gambling that a conciliatory approach would tame the American president. > > It certainly has not worked out that way. > > When Mr. Trump broke with years of American policy and international practices by forcing asylum seekers to wait in Mexico while their fates are decided, Mr. López Obrador, who campaigned on the promise of defending migrants’ rights, went along with it. > > Amid Mr. Trump’s threats to close the American southwest border over illegal immigration, the Mexican authorities cracked down on migrant caravans and accelerated their efforts to detain and deport Central Americans and others trudging north toward the United States. > > Yet the warnings from Mr. Trump kept coming. > > Now Mr. López Obrador, a lifelong champion of the poor, faces the most concrete threat yet from the American president — a vow to begin imposing tariffs on all Mexican imports in a matter of days. > > … > > On Friday, Mr. López Obrador once more appealed to Mr. Trump, preparing to dispatch a delegation to Washington to urge diplomacy and try to dissuade Mr. Trump from carrying out his latest threat. > > “I want to insist that we are not going to fall to any provocation,” the Mexican president said at his regular morning news conference. “We are going to act with prudence, with respect for the authorities of the United States, with respect for President Donald Trump.” > > He added: “We think that all conflicts in bilateral relationships must be resolved with dialogue, with communication.” > … Good luck with that. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2019, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/33144 "2019-06-01T03:35:58Z")
> [@digs](#): > > I used to give you the benefit of the doubt, but even you can’t believe the President decides whether the economy rises or falls. Did you think Obama was awesome when the economy was recovering? > > You’re not even trying that Fighting Ignorance stuff, are you? Scientific fact: wooshes are visible to all except for those afflicted. It’s the damndest thing. 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=1656) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=1658)