# The Trump Administration: A Clusterfuck in the Making **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 7, 2016, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070 "2016-12-07T00:25:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1690
**Author:** ![Mike\_Mabes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mike_mabes/32/1782_2.png) [@Mike\_Mabes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mike_Mabes)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2019, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/33785 "2019-06-22T05:33:09Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I’ll just quote the Huffpost article on this one: > > Trump didn’t stop there: > > I’m sure Kavanaugh loved hearing that Trump compared his innocence to his own. > > Being on a roll, Trump then said “All should condemn false accusations” - followed by accusing Carroll of working for the Democratic Party. > > The article concludes by noting that Carroll is the sixteenth woman to publicly accuse Trump of sexual assault. > > [Trump On E. Jean Carroll Rape Allegation: 'I've Never Met This Person In My Life' | HuffPost Latest News](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trump-response-e-jean-carroll-rape-allegation_n_5d0d4a42e4b0a39418626c52?ncid=%20edlinkusaolp00000029) But that happened years ago. Jesus has forgiven him and annointed him to save America. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2019, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/33786 "2019-06-22T05:55:07Z")
My default position is innocent until proven, which I apply to everyone. Almost everyone. Sure, Jesus forgives, but that doesn’t mean you can’t piss him off. ---
**Author:** ![lisiate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f05b48/32.png) [@lisiate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisiate)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2019, 9:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/33787 "2019-06-22T09:15:59Z")
I’m not sure what’s stranger: Trump boasting about calling off military operations on Twitter or the allegations of him raping a magazine columnist in a department store fitting room. I am sure Sanders must be pretty happy to have resigned before this clusterfuck. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2019, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/33788 "2019-06-22T10:21:34Z")
> [@Defensive\_Indifference](#): > > If they get away with deporting 2000 families, look for it to be 4000 next time, then 20,000, then millions. And then they’ll start on citizens who were born here to undocumented immigrants (another of Herr Miller’s ideas). And then maybe legal residents or naturalized citizens from “shithole countries”. And anybody whose facial features indicate possible Amerind ancestry, that being what a lot of Americans identify as “Hispanic” and therefore “immigrant”. You don’t have ID and the goon thinks you look Hispanic? Into the van you go. You have ID and the goon thinks you look Hispanic? Into the van you go; that ID is clearly fake. It won’t matter if you’re a US-born federal judge or if your ancestry is 100% Choctaw with a hint of Greek: into the van you’ll go. > [@Mike\_Mabes](#): > > Sure, if they can deport 2000 they’ll deport 4000 and then 20,000. But at a certain number, these deportations are going to start affecting the daily lives of white citizens. They already have. “Oh, when I said all illegals should be deported I didn’t mean my neighbor!” ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2019, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/33789 "2019-06-22T10:27:36Z")
> [@Mike\_Mabes](#): > > But right now, most Americans are completely ignorant of how much immigrants, especially illegal ones, contribute to our economy. They are just going to have to find out for themselves. I am hoping you mean that people don’t realize indocumented immigrants contribute to the economy, and not that they (either illegally or as a group) contribute more than the legal ones. I wonder how many people never realize that famous inmigrants are inmigrants too; it’s an argument I’ve seen used against xenophobes in Spain, but it’s always been in conversations among regular people, I haven’t seen it in media anywhere. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2019, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/33790 "2019-06-22T11:10:01Z")
> [@Mike\_Mabes](#): > > Sure, if they can deport 2000 they’ll deport 4000 and then 20,000. But at a certain number, these deportations are going to start affecting the daily lives of white citizens. Anthony Bourdain once said that the restaurant industry in NYC could not survive without immigrants, legal and illegal. They are the one busing the tables and doing the prep work in the kitchens. And this is also true in El Paso. Soon the MAGA-hat-wearing-moron (can I trademark that, AFAIK I coined it) will have delays getting his food because the waiters have been deported or just ran away in fear, or will have to pay more at the grocery store because prices have gone up because crops are rotting in the fields because there is no one to pick them (which happened in Alabama a few years ago), or work in the meat processing plants. > > I am not diminishing the threat we face or saying “it can’t happen here.” It can happen anywhere. But right now, most Americans are completely ignorant of how much immigrants, especially illegal ones, contribute to our economy. They are just going to have to find out for themselves. The goal is to terrorize the community. Trump’s base probably doesn’t spend a lot of time dining in cities, so they could hardly care less. Terrorizing Hispanic communities and enraging liberal elitists in urban centers plays to his base. It’s gladiator politics, and Trump and his base love it. More than that, though, this is political intimidation. The anti-immigration extremists in Trump’s orbit see an opportunity, which is to intimidate Latin communities into becoming less politically active and less visible. They want Latinos to shut up and get out of sight, and they believe that harassment can be a tool - and unfortunately, it can be an effective one. In particular, going after families has a special kind of shock value. People in these communities will see the inhumanity of not just going after a father or a son, but rounding up an entire family, the way that Nazis rounded up entire families of Jews in the 1930s. Neighbors see neighbors just…disappear. That is shock and awe. And it’s terrifying and intimidating. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2019, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/33791 "2019-06-22T12:15:13Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Sure, Jesus forgives, but that doesn’t mean you can’t piss him off. Never was there a more apt user name. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2019, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/33792 "2019-06-22T12:44:48Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > …In particular, going after families has a special kind of shock value. People in these communities will see the inhumanity of not just going after a father or a son, but rounding up an entire family, the way that Nazis rounded up entire families of Jews in the 1930s. Neighbors see neighbors just…disappear. That is shock and awe. And it’s terrifying and intimidating. Speaking of inhumanity: **[Toddlers hospitalized after lawyers visit border facility](https://a.msn.com/r/2/AADeueL?m=en-us&referrerID=InAppShare)** > [@](#): > > Four toddlers were so severely ill and neglected at a U.S. Border Patrol facility in McAllen, Texas, that lawyers forced the government to hospitalize them last week. > > The children, all under age 3 with teenage mothers or guardians, were feverish, coughing, vomiting and had diarrhea, immigration attorneys told HuffPost on Friday. Some of the toddlers and infants were refusing to eat or drink. One 2-year-old’s eyes were rolled back in her head, and she was “completely unresponsive” and limp, according to Toby Gialluca, a Florida-based attorney. > … > > Another mother at the same facility had a premature baby, who was “listless” and wrapped in a dirty towel, asHuffPost previously reported. > > The lawyers feared that if they had not shown up at the facility, the sick kids would have received zero medical attention and potentially died. > … > > Some children were so exhausted they fell asleep during the interviews, said Clara Long, a senior researcher at Human Rights Watch who spoke with kids at a facility in Clint, Texas. Long met a 3-year-old boy who was dirty with matted hair and was being taken care of by his 11-year-old brother. She said that more than 10 sick children were being quarantined in cells. > … ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2019, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/33793 "2019-06-22T13:32:52Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Lawyers for the administration are arguing that there is no right for detainees to have soap, toothpaste, or beds. > [U.S. Government Says It's Not Required to Provide Migrant Kids in Custody With Toothpaste and Soap](https://gizmodo.com/u-s-government-says-its-not-required-to-provide-migran-1835688631) If only that philosophy was invoked if his nibs, any of his children, or any of his cronies wind up in prison. ---
**Author:** ![DummyGladHands](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/49beb7/32.png) [@DummyGladHands](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DummyGladHands)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2019, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/33794 "2019-06-22T13:48:52Z")
> [@Mike\_Mabes](#): > > Sure, if they can deport 2000 they’ll deport 4000 and then 20,000. But at a certain number, these deportations are going to start affecting the daily lives of white citizens. Anthony Bourdain once said that the restaurant industry in NYC could not survive without immigrants, legal and illegal. They are the one busing the tables and doing the prep work in the kitchens. And this is also true in El Paso. Soon the MAGA-hat-wearing-moron (can I trademark that, AFAIK I coined it) will have delays getting his food because the waiters have been deported or just ran away in fear, or will have to pay more at the grocery store because prices have gone up because crops are rotting in the fields because there is no one to pick them (which happened in Alabama a few years ago), or work in the meat processing plants. > > I am not diminishing the threat we face or saying “it can’t happen here.” It can happen anywhere. But right now, most Americans are completely ignorant of how much immigrants, especially illegal ones, contribute to our economy. They are just going to have to find out for themselves. As a landlord, almost a former landlord I know that when AZ was futzing around with their no undocumented people here in the State, can’t remember the Proposition #, tenants were leaving. There is money to be made renting to them, many places offer “all utilities paid” rentals to them as they can’t get utilities in their names. Empty apartments means no taxes to the city or state for those units. And in the meantime, the underground economy, with its hairstylists, barbers, dentists, child care etc. etc. etc., thrives and no sales taxes are paid. It’s just poor business. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2019, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/33795 "2019-06-22T13:57:52Z")
> [@lisiate](#): > > I’m not sure what’s stranger: Trump boasting about calling off military operations on Twitter or the allegations of him raping a magazine columnist in a department store fitting room. I am sure Sanders must be pretty happy to have resigned before this clusterfuck. What would she have done if she hadn’t?.. Hold a press conference? ---
**Author:** ![slumtrimpet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@slumtrimpet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slumtrimpet)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2019, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/33796 "2019-06-22T16:40:05Z")
> [@Mike\_Mabes](#): > > The blackmail theory seems a little wacky, although Trump would certainly do it, he could be his own J. Edgar Hoover. It may just be that the whole party, I mean the voters, are going so far right that any moderate can’t get elected. > > Either way, in the long run, this is good. This is not a majority far right country. I mean hell, in Mississippi it is. But otherwise, the Republicans are going to increasingly marginalize themselves. I really don’t see a future wave of Young Republicans coming along. > > Unfortunately this is going to take a long time. I hope I live to see the demise of the Republican Party. Maybe ‘blackmail’ wasn’t a good choice of words and I seriously doubt Individual 1 is doing it. I think the entire Republican Party is somehow dirty - illegal fund raising?, graft?, bribery?, I dunno - and that the information is out there and in someone’s hands - Vladimir?, Saudi? I dunno. Or maybe it’s still in the hands of the Republican leadership. So the word from on high in the Republican party is keep your mouth shut and follow the leader; McConnell et al., or your career as a Republican and politician is over because we will take you down. Hence the resignations and the weird universal talking points. In other words, any Republican that has accepted assistance from the party (all of them?) is dirty by association and they know it. The Donald? He has his own mess, and he’s a useful tool for the Republicans because they know which of his sins to dangle over his head and when to do it. Or maybe it is an outside party and he was foisted upon them. But he’s still useful. The Republican leadership isn’t stupid. They know exactly how much they can manipulate and how often before it gets too suspicious. In the meantime they can load the courts and as many of the oversight bodies as they can manage with their cronies so that if the piper (US voters?) asks to be paid they’ll pretty much be immune. ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_Mabes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mike_mabes/32/1782_2.png) [@Mike\_Mabes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mike_Mabes)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2019, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/33797 "2019-06-22T17:06:22Z")
> [@DummyGladHands](#): > > As a landlord, almost a former landlord I know that when AZ was futzing around with their no undocumented people here in the State, can’t remember the Proposition #, tenants were leaving. There is money to be made renting to them, many places offer “all utilities paid” rentals to them as they can’t get utilities in their names. > > Empty apartments means no taxes to the city or state for those units. > > And in the meantime, the underground economy, with its hairstylists, barbers, dentists, child care etc. etc. etc., thrives and no sales taxes are paid. It’s just poor business. Yes. And it’s not just the underground, immigrants buy things at the legit local deli and gas station and restaurant. A lot of these places would go out of business in small towns andd that would affect the white population. ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_Mabes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mike_mabes/32/1782_2.png) [@Mike\_Mabes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mike_Mabes)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2019, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/33798 "2019-06-22T17:08:26Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > I am hoping you mean that people don’t realize indocumented immigrants contribute to the economy, and not that they (either illegally or as a group) contribute more than the legal ones. > > I wonder how many people never realize that famous inmigrants are inmigrants too; it’s an argument I’ve seen used against xenophobes in Spain, but it’s always been in conversations among regular people, I haven’t seen it in media anywhere. I don’t meant that they contribute more, but they contribute. No one knows exactly how many of the fruit pickers are illegal, but it is a substantial number. ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_Mabes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mike_mabes/32/1782_2.png) [@Mike\_Mabes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mike_Mabes)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2019, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/33799 "2019-06-22T17:11:44Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > The goal is to terrorize the community. Trump’s base probably doesn’t spend a lot of time dining in cities, so they could hardly care less. Terrorizing Hispanic communities and enraging liberal elitists in urban centers plays to his base. It’s gladiator politics, and Trump and his base love it. More than that, though, this is political intimidation. The anti-immigration extremists in Trump’s orbit see an opportunity, which is to intimidate Latin communities into becoming less politically active and less visible. They want Latinos to shut up and get out of sight, and they believe that harassment can be a tool - and unfortunately, it can be an effective one. > > In particular, going after families has a special kind of shock value. People in these communities will see the inhumanity of not just going after a father or a son, but rounding up an entire family, the way that Nazis rounded up entire families of Jews in the 1930s. Neighbors see neighbors just…disappear. That is shock and awe. And it’s terrifying and intimidating. I don’t disagree with any of that, except to say that what Bourdain said about NYC also applies to the little Tex-Mex place in El Paso. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2019, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/33800 "2019-06-22T17:42:25Z")
> [@Mike\_Mabes](#): > > I don’t meant that they contribute more, but they contribute. No one knows exactly how many of the fruit pickers are illegal, but it is a substantial number. I no longer have the cite handy but there was an orchard owner years ago who tried an experiment: only hire American citizens. He went around to local job placement agencies offering well above minimum wage. He found one worker, who didn’t bother to return after breaking for lunch. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2019, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/33801 "2019-06-22T17:57:28Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > And anybody whose facial features indicate possible Amerind ancestry, that being what a lot of Americans identify as “Hispanic” and therefore “immigrant”. You don’t have ID and the goon thinks you look Hispanic? Into the van you go. You have ID and the goon thinks you look Hispanic? Into the van you go; that ID is clearly fake. It won’t matter if you’re a US-born federal judge or if your ancestry is 100% Choctaw with a hint of Greek: into the van you’ll go. > > They already have. “Oh, when I said all illegals should be deported I didn’t mean my neighbor!” There have already been cases of “When I said all illegals should be deported I didn’t mean my wife.” ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2019, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/33802 "2019-06-22T18:13:03Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > Yeah, put me down as another vote for this. > > Some military experts have gone on record saying the sequence of events Trump described is _extremely_ unlikely—the idea that no one would have mentioned potential casualties until Mr. Brilliant Mind thought of it, is utterly ludicrous. When a military action is placed before a decision-maker, the projected number of casualties is one of the first factors mentioned. > > Trump thought this was a great story. So much drama! It was about to go down, and only his wise intervention stopped a disproportionate military action! Such a brilliant commander he is! No one else thought about casualties or proportionality of response! > > What a disgusting little turd he is, playing with his toys. Take that, Cuban Missile Crisis. Nobody knows more about brinkmanship than DJT. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2019, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/33803 "2019-06-22T18:53:42Z")
> [@lisiate](#): > > I’m not sure what’s stranger: Trump boasting about calling off military operations on Twitter or the allegations of him raping a magazine columnist in a department store fitting room. I am sure Sanders must be pretty happy to have resigned before this clusterfuck. You almost have to feel sorry for a press agent who has to hope that her boss gets accused of rape - again - because it will distract attention away from the worse story. Then you remember who we’re talking about and you figure she deserves it. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2019, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/33804 "2019-06-22T18:55:06Z")
> [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](#): > > Take that, Cuban Missile Crisis. Nobody knows more about brinkmanship than DJT. Trump went eyeball to eyeball with himself and then he blinked. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=1689) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=1691)