# The Trump Administration: A Clusterfuck in the Making **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 7, 2016, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070 "2016-12-07T00:25:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1705
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2019, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/34085 "2019-07-04T03:31:02Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > Nothing. Yet. Let’s see what happens after 2020. 'Splain, please. Fill in the blanks. What are you thinking could happen? ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2019, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/34086 "2019-07-04T03:37:57Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Hold the phone…this just in: > > **[DOJ Reverses Course on Citizenship Question, Citing Trump’s Orders](https://a.msn.com/r/2/AADNTfD?m=en-us&referrerID=InAppShare)** > > Holy fuck. :smack: > > Also posted in How Has Prez Pissed You Off thread, 'cause I got confused. Here is the court transcript of a phone conference with the judge. Astounding. > **[census hearing transcript 7/3](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1M3Y6vj3QlQpSdlYcCdq3BkbnnWIrEPlf/view)** > > Google Drive file. > [@A very concerned DOJ Attorney](#): > > MR. GARDNER: Your Honor, this is Mr. Gardner. I want to back up just a step and say that I’ve been with the United States Department of Justice for 16 years, through multiple Administrations, and I’ve always endeavored to be as candid as possible with the Court. What I told the Court yesterday was absolutely my best understanding of the state of affairs and, apparently, also the Commerce Department’s state of affairs, because you probably saw Secretary Ross issued a statement very similar to what I told the Court. > > The tweet this morning was the first I had heard of the President’s position on this issue, just like the plaintiffs and Your Honor. I do not have a deeper understanding of what that means at this juncture other than what the President has tweeted. But, obviously, as you can imagine, I am doing my absolute best to figure out what’s going on. > [@A very pissed off Judge](#): > > By Friday at 2 p.m. I want one of two things. I either want a stipulation, as we’ve been discussing, indicating that the citizenship question will not appear on the census, or I want a proposed scheduling order for how we’re going forward on the equal protection claim that’s been remanded to this Court. I want one of those two things by Friday at two o’clock. > > So I would expect that the parties will have to meet and confer sometime earlier on Friday to determine which of those things you’re submitting to me by Friday at two o’clock. But I want one of those two things by Friday at two o’clock. > > If, in the case of the scheduling order, the parties are not able to come to an agreement as to what it should look like, you can submit to me competing options, and we’ll have a call that afternoon. I’ll be here Friday. We’ll have a call that afternoon where the Court will mike a final decision on how we’re proceeding. But we will, if this is not resolved by Friday at 2 p.m., the equal protection claim in this case is moving forward. > > Any questions as to that? > > MR. GARDNER: Your Honor, this is Mr. Gardner. The one thing I would request is, given that tomorrow is the Fourth of July and the difficulty in assembling people from all over the place, is it possible that we could do this on Monday? > > **THE COURT: No.** > > MR. GARDNER: And again – okay. > > THE COURT: No. Because timing is an issue. Timing is an issue, and we’ve lost a week at this point. And this isn’t anything against anybody on this call. I’ve been told different things, and it’s becoming increasingly frustrating. > > If you were Facebook and an attorney for Facebook told me one thing, and then I read a press release from Mark Zuckerberg telling me something else, I would be demanding that Mark Zuckerberg appear in court with you the next time because **I would be saying I don’t think you speak for your client.** Imagine a judge implying that you, a DOJ attorney, are not speaking for the president! ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2019, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/34087 "2019-07-04T03:59:33Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > 'Splain, please. Fill in the blanks. What are you thinking could happen? My thinking: Nothing will render American society more open to making changes at the SCOTUS than if they continue to ignore the changing social dynamics of the majority of citizens. They are already seriously out of step. Example: You’ll never see them overturn Roe. They’ll fuck with it, sure. They’ll go as far as they possibly can – without actually overturning it. Roberts is mindful of their vulnerability if they move in too obvious a way. They’ll score big when they think they can get away with it, such as with the gerrymandering ruling. In the debates, Bernie raised the approach I’ve heard most often as a way of dealing with a nakedly partisan SCOTUS. (I winced when he did, too. Shaddup already, till after the election!) The idea is to expand the total number of Justices, limit them to a term of service of, say, 18 years, then pick them randomly to hear each case on the docket for a given term. That way, no one knows how a particular SCOTUS bench will be made up in advance, and they can’t aim cases at a “friendly” court. It could also serve to inhibit choosing baldly partisan judges for new vacancies, because neither side would know when their pet case might be aided by a more moderate pick on the other side. Obviously there would be a lot of pushback on this by Republicans, but the majority of Americans are troubled by the direction they see their SCOTUS moving. It makes the SCOTUS much more vulnerable to drastic changes being considered – and possibly even enacted, if the majority regains control and is angry enough at a blatantly partisan SCOTUS. They’re getting there. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2019, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/34088 "2019-07-04T04:00:49Z")
> [@jasg](#): > > Here is the court transcript of a phone conference with the judge. Astounding. > > [census hearing transcript 7/3 - Google Drive](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1M3Y6vj3QlQpSdlYcCdq3BkbnnWIrEPlf/view) > > Imagine a judge implying that you, a DOJ attorney, **are not speaking for the president**! This assumes the president is on the side of the American people. As the DOJ is supposed to be. At this point in time, neither are. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2019, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/34089 "2019-07-04T04:05:52Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Impeachable by whom? This Senate would never convict him for something so minor. Or for anything major, for that matter. I can almost hear Mitch McConnell calling the Census “socialism”. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2019, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/34090 "2019-07-04T05:31:12Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > My thinking: > > Nothing will render American society more open to making changes at the SCOTUS than if they continue to ignore the changing social dynamics of the majority of citizens. They are already seriously out of step. Example: You’ll never see them overturn Roe. They’ll fuck with it, sure. They’ll go as far as they possibly can – without actually overturning it. Roberts is mindful of their vulnerability if they move in too obvious a way. They’ll score big when they think they can get away with it, such as with the gerrymandering ruling. > > In the debates, Bernie raised the approach I’ve heard most often as a way of dealing with a nakedly partisan SCOTUS. (I winced when he did, too. Shaddup already, till after the election!) > > The idea is to expand the total number of Justices, limit them to a term of service of, say, 18 years, then pick them randomly to hear each case on the docket for a given term. That way, no one knows how a particular SCOTUS bench will be made up in advance, and they can’t aim cases at a “friendly” court. > > It could also serve to inhibit choosing baldly partisan judges for new vacancies, because neither side would know when their pet case might be aided by a more moderate pick on the other side. > > Obviously there would be a lot of pushback on this by Republicans, but the majority of Americans are troubled by the direction they see their SCOTUS moving. It makes the SCOTUS much more vulnerable to drastic changes being considered – and possibly even enacted, if the majority regains control and is angry enough at a blatantly partisan SCOTUS. > > They’re getting there. You totally fucking rock. I really appreciate the concise way you lay things out as well as your always even tone. It doesn’t hurt that you know a shitload about the DOJ, court proceedings, etc.; your experience is great to tap into. I hadn’t heard about this SCOTUS plan; I’m gonna look into it further and edumacate myself. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2019, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/34091 "2019-07-04T05:33:20Z")
Isn’t that THE cardinal sin for an attorney, “not speaking for their client”? ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2019, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/34092 "2019-07-04T06:35:24Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Isn’t that THE cardinal sin for an attorney, “not speaking for their client”? It sucks for the DOJ attorneys that they must represent the Executive Branch in this complete piece of shit case, but that’s what happens when the occupant of the Oval Office is concerned solely with saving his own hide from prosecution, rather than safeguarding the well being of the American people. He’ll do anything to appear “tough on immigration” in his efforts to get reelected. What I hate most about the citizenship question case is that we were saved from this travesty by one… lousy… vote. I’m sure the DOJ lawyers extracted an “iron-clad” representation from Wilbur Ross that the citizenship question would not be further pursued for the 2020 census. Worth exactly nothing, obviously, and no one is surprised. As the judge pointed out and **jasg** helpfully quoted with his post, in an _ordinary_ situation where a party and his/her attorney differed in their representations, the judge would simply summon the party to court to explain. But of course that’s not going to happen here. Someone needs to grow a pair and tell Trump he lost this case, he’s not going to win by flipping off the Chief Justice and he’ll just have to rely on the Russians and the Saudis for Ivanka’s election efforts in 2024. If Trump openly defies a SCOTUS ruling, the percentage of Americans who support impeachment and removal – now at 45% – may continue to grow as a result. Let’s hope. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2019, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/34093 "2019-07-04T08:43:30Z")
My fear is that, faced with a situation where the validity of the court’s rulings would become a major partisan dispute, and not really having his heart in it in the first place, Roberts will just accept whatever new argument the administration cooks up, even if it’s worse than the previous pretext. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2019, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/34094 "2019-07-04T11:12:29Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > If Trump openly defies a SCOTUS ruling, the percentage of Americans who support impeachment and removal – now at 45% – may continue to grow as a result. Let’s hope. What percent of Mitch McConnells support impeachment? ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2019, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/34095 "2019-07-04T12:30:25Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > He’s also fond of having the made-up people in his stories call him “Mr. Trump”. Well, it sounds better than, “Hey, asshole…” ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2019, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/34096 "2019-07-04T12:39:22Z")
If the so-called administration isn’t bound to follow the law when printing the census, and collecting its data, why the fuck should anyone else receiving the questionnaire give two shits about the “law” regarding their obligations? ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2019, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/34097 "2019-07-04T13:38:19Z")
I guess a Trump-appointed judge had to leach up and enter the fray at some point or another, as is this former cop who’ll be presiding over [House Democrats’ legal bid for President Donald Trump’s tax returns](https://www.politico.com/story/2019/07/03/trump-tax-returns-judge-1397447) ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2019, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/34098 "2019-07-04T13:56:39Z")
> [@Guest-starring\_Id](#): > > I guess a Trump-appointed judge had to leach up and enter the fray at some point or another, as is this former cop who’ll be presiding over [House Democrats’ legal bid for President Donald Trump’s tax returns](https://www.politico.com/story/2019/07/03/trump-tax-returns-judge-1397447) The curse of the passive voice! The opening sentence at that link (my bold): _“House Democrats’ legal bid for President Donald Trump’s tax returns **has been assigned** to a district court judge appointed by Trump.”_ Who makes these assignments? ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2019, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/34099 "2019-07-04T14:49:17Z")
Op-Ed in the _Washington Post_ today (may be pay walled): [Justin Amash: Our politics is in a partisan death spiral. That’s why I’m leaving the GOP.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/justin-amash-our-politics-is-in-a-partisan-death-spiral-thats-why-im-leaving-the-gop/2019/07/04/afbe0480-9e3d-11e9-b27f-ed2942f73d70_story.html?utm_term=.a2e909d90524) Amash quotes this guy\* about political parties: > [@](#): > > …said of partisanship, in one of America’s most prescient addresses: “The disorders and miseries which result gradually incline the minds of men to seek security and repose in the absolute power of an individual; and sooner or later the chief of some prevailing faction, more able or more fortunate than his competitors, turns this disposition to the purposes of his own elevation, on the ruins of public liberty. … > > “It serves always to distract the public councils and enfeeble the public administration. It agitates the community with ill-founded jealousies and false alarms, kindles the animosity of one part against another, foments occasionally riot and insurrection. It opens the door to foreign influence and corruption, which finds a facilitated access to the government itself through the channels of party passions. Thus the policy and the will of one country are subjected to the policy and will of another.” \*I’m sure you could guess: George Washington ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2019, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/34100 "2019-07-04T15:58:03Z")
George Washington ? Typical liberal America-hater. Didn’t ever wear a flag pin, say the Pledge or go to a baseball game. MAGA ! ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2019, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/34101 "2019-07-04T17:32:05Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > George Washington ? Typical liberal America-hater. Didn’t ever wear a flag pin, say the Pledge or go to a baseball game. MAGA ! Loser didn’t even know how to lie properly. Cherry tree? FAKE NEWS! ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2019, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/34102 "2019-07-04T18:33:45Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Loser didn’t even know how to lie properly. Cherry tree? FAKE NEWS! Oh yeah, there’s that too. Not cutting cherry trees sounds like namby pamby liberal nanny state climate hoax bullshit to me. \*Real \*Americans chainsaw trees to own the libs. Cherries are a faggoty fruit, too. All fruits, really. If it ain’t a beef-flavoured, BBQ smoked apple pie, it ain’t American ! ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2019, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/34103 "2019-07-04T19:10:05Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Oh yeah, there’s that too. Not cutting cherry trees sounds like namby pamby liberal nanny state climate hoax bullshit to me. \*Real \*Americans chainsaw trees to own the libs. Cherries are a faggoty fruit, too. All fruits, really. If it ain’t a beef-flavoured, BBQ smoked apple pie, it ain’t American ! 😃 You made me laugh so hard I scared my dog! _\_ 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2019, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/34104 "2019-07-04T19:17:13Z")
And it has been my privilege, _madame_. _doffs hat_ (too corny ? Fuck. I wish I was an Englishman sometimes, then I could do grandiloquent, charming obsequiousness right. Plus you’d all wonder if I was being overly respectful or scornfully condescending at all times. As it stands, I merely sound like an idjit.) ETA : oh, but do pet your dog for me. He/she’s a gooboy, ain’t he/she ?! ETA2 : I also wish I could have a dog. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=1704) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=1706)