# The Trump Administration: A Clusterfuck in the Making **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 7, 2016, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070 "2016-12-07T00:25:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1714
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/34265 "2019-07-11T22:02:39Z")
Breaking: [Trump announces end of fight to add citizenship question to census.](https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-expected-end-fight-add-citizenship-question-census/story?id=64262805) So, who’s he been talking to? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/34266 "2019-07-11T22:10:32Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > Breaking: [Trump announces end of fight to add citizenship question to census.](https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-expected-end-fight-add-citizenship-question-census/story?id=64262805) > > So, who’s he been talking to? Why does this seem vaguely threatening? > [@](#): > > “I am hereby ordering every department and agency in the federal government to provide the Department of Commerce with all requested records regarding the number of citizens and noncitizens in our country,” Trump said in a Rose Garden announcement Thursday afternoon. “They must furnish all legally accessible records in their possession immediately. We will utilize these vast federal databases to gain a full, complete, and accurate count of the noncitizen population.” ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/34267 "2019-07-11T22:24:39Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Why does this seem vaguely threatening? It played better in the original German. ---
**Author:** ![Frazzled](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frazzled/32/3368_2.png) [@Frazzled](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frazzled)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/34268 "2019-07-11T22:29:19Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Why does this seem vaguely threatening? Isn’t this essentially the same thing as his Advisory Commission on Election Integrity? > **[Presidential Advisory Commission on Election Integrity](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidential_Advisory_Commission_on_Election_Integrity)** > > The Presidential Advisory Commission on Election Integrity (PEIC or PACEI), also called the Voter Fraud Commission, was a Presidential Commission established by Donald Trump that ran from May 11, 2017, to January 3, 2018. The Trump administration said the commission would review claims of voter fraud, improper registration, and voter suppression. The establishment of the commission followed Trump's false claim that millions of illegal immigrants had voted in the 2016 presidential electio On Ju... A couple of years ago his administration tried to get voter information from each state, and in most cases the states refused to comply. I can’t imagine this would get any better traction. He’s simply performing for his base so he looks like a tough guy on stage, and in a year or so it will be completely forgotten. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/34269 "2019-07-11T22:35:48Z")
On the other hand, he’s not going through the States this time. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/34270 "2019-07-11T22:44:34Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > The emoluments lawsuit brought by the state of Maryland and D.C. has been thrown out, which is disappointing. Apparently for reasons having to do with whether or not the plaintiffs had standing. > > So to all the constitutional scholars here: who _does_ have standing to blow the whistle on a president taking payoffs from a foreign country? Not a constitutional scholar, but the one emoluments case that has withstood the “standing” challenge to date is the one brought by Congress itself. Since Congress is constitutionally tasked with determining what is or is not an emolument, it has standing to bring a case. That one is in the discovery process right now. Much to Trump’s dismay. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/34271 "2019-07-11T22:55:28Z")
ISTR having been notified that disparate federal agencies simply do NOT share information about the folks they serve (if they did, filling out a single form [albeit likely a multi-page one] would suffice to get you signed up for every government activity that you might need to avail yourself of). On reflection, this might be indicative of bureaucrats jealousy guarding their fiefdoms, but I somehow formed the impression that such cross-referencing is actually forbidden by federal law. Which doesn’t in itself rule out fiefdom-protecting as a strong motivator in getting the law(s) passed. Of course, I COULD have just made the whole thing up in my head. Anybody know whether federal law permits this? ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/34272 "2019-07-11T23:00:09Z")
Donald Trump, may I take this opportunity to tell you to go fuck yourself? Also, ha-ha. I would say that I hate to kick you when you’re down, but I don’t at all! So fuck off, I hope the results of your failed attempt at fucking up the census have you real bummed out. Fuck off. Have a fuck off day! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/34273 "2019-07-11T23:12:32Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > The emoluments lawsuit brought by the state of Maryland and D.C. has been thrown out, which is disappointing. Apparently for reasons having to do with whether or not the plaintiffs had standing. > > So to all the constitutional scholars here: who _does_ have standing to blow the whistle on a president taking payoffs from a foreign country? I thought one of the persons who filed suit was someone who owned a hotel or restaurant that competed with the one that Trump owns in Washington. Doesn’t that person have standing? Does anyone remember what happened to that case? And the Emoluments Clause says that the president (and others) can’t “accept of any present, Emolument, Office, or Title, of any kind whatever, from any King, Prince, or foreign State.” So, hypothetically, what if President Obama had been knighted by the UK queen as “Baron of Locksley” while in office? That seems to be a clear violation of that clause but I’m not harmed in any real way by him having done so. So does that mean I wouldn’t have standing to sue? ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/34274 "2019-07-11T23:32:21Z")
> [@wguy123](#): > > Excuse me, I speak Trump: > > [NBA Commissioner Adam Silver said basketball league may phase out use of the term "owner" - CBS News](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/nba-commissioner-adam-silver-said-basketball-league-may-phase-out-use-of-the-term-owner/) I am so sorry. I am sure there is help for this condition. Have you considered drinking? > [@aurora\_maire](#): > > Did you know the forest floors are dirty? And I bet the leaves are a hundred feet high in places since no one cleans them up. The answer, of course, is forest management. What a concept! It’s hard to believe no one understood that until now. > > Maybe he should put together a work force to manage the forests. Create more jobs! Call it the Forest Service or something. Hey - Forest Force! You know, if we just cut down all of the trees, there wouldn’t be a problem. I try not to get stressed about this stuff, but I fucking hate Trump. Census, concentration camps, raping, harassment, corruption, lying, North Korea, trade wars, racism. It goes on and on. I hate him. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/34275 "2019-07-11T23:50:10Z")
> [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > … I try not to get stressed about this stuff, but I fucking hate Trump. Census, concentration camps, raping, harassment, corruption, lying, North Korea, trade wars, racism. It goes on and on. I hate him. There’s also the special loathing that springs from having an odious moron in a position of power over us. People don’t hate the village idiot, but they do tend to hate the self-important dim-bulb boss. It’s only human. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/34276 "2019-07-11T23:59:20Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I thought one of the persons who filed suit was someone who owned a hotel or restaurant that competed with the one that Trump owns in Washington. Doesn’t that person have standing? Does anyone remember what happened to that case? > > And the Emoluments Clause says that the president (and others) can’t “accept of any present, Emolument, Office, or Title, of any kind whatever, from any King, Prince, or foreign State.” So, hypothetically, what if President Obama had been knighted by the UK queen as “Baron of Locksley” while in office? That seems to be a clear violation of that clause but I’m not harmed in any real way by him having done so. So does that mean I wouldn’t have standing to sue? That’s the one under discussion by **jsc1953** in Post #34336 that just got dismissed with prejudice by a 3-judge panel of the 4th Circuit on the basis of standing. As he points out, it was brought by the AGs of D.C. and Maryland (on behalf of the affected hotels). No word yet if the Plaintiffs will ask for a review before the full court, which is their right. My understanding is that the 3 judges on the panel were the 3 most conservative judges on the 4th Circuit. As for your question re standing to sue if President Obama had been knighted by the Queen of England, you’re probably correct. I don’t see how you personally would have standing. IANAL, however, and this is just a lay person’s notion. You’re aware the [Republicans sought to sue President Obama under the Emoluments Clause for having received the Nobel Peace Prize, right](http://blogs.reuters.com/talesfromthetrail/2010/04/16/nobel-award-to-obama-required-lengthy-u-s-constitution-check/) (Reuters)? This [DOJ OLC Memo](https://www.justice.gov/sites/default/files/olc/opinions/2009/12/31/emoluments-nobel-peace_0.pdf) determined it was not an emolument, but I think Republicans sued him anyway. Jones v. Obama, 2010 WL 11509096, 3 (D. C.D.Cal. 2010) However, I can’t find any pleadings attached to that case. It was thrown out for lack of standing, AIUI. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2019, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/34277 "2019-07-12T00:07:09Z")
> [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > \ > > I try not to get stressed about this stuff, but I fucking hate Trump. Census, concentration camps, raping, harassment, corruption, lying, North Korea, trade wars, racism. It goes on and on. I hate him. I’ve run out of words to describe how much I hate, loathe, despise, detest, abhor, etc. Trump for all the reasons you list, but I will 100x the feelings for the Republicans who continue to turn a blind eye to his grotesque impulses in the interest of pursuing their goal of global kakistocracy. I laughed when I saw the thread about how Republicans could induce Democrats to vote Republican. They can’t. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2019, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/34278 "2019-07-12T00:11:21Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > Not a constitutional scholar, but the one emoluments case that has withstood the “standing” challenge to date is the one brought by Congress itself. Since Congress is constitutionally tasked with determining what is or is not an emolument, it has standing to bring a case. > > That one is in the discovery process right now. Much to Trump’s dismay. I’m so glad and grateful that you keep up with and understand this stuff. I rely on you for that. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2019, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/34279 "2019-07-12T00:58:18Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > …I laughed when I saw the thread about how Republicans could induce Democrats to vote Republican. They can’t. Yep. If republicans can completely and fully reinvent themselves, and PROVE IT, I might vote for one. It takes a long, long time to build trust in someone that fucks you over again, and again and again. A group that lies to you again, and again and again. A group that only cares about themselves, and are so stupid as to ignore the future of just not me but the planet. A group that is so self centered that they, themselves, don’t even care about their children and grandchildren. I’m 58 years old. I’ll will probably be long dead before they can remove the stench they have created. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2019, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/34280 "2019-07-12T01:03:59Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > You’re aware the [Republicans sought to sue President Obama under the Emoluments Clause for having received the Nobel Peace Prize, right](http://blogs.reuters.com/talesfromthetrail/2010/04/16/nobel-award-to-obama-required-lengthy-u-s-constitution-check/) (Reuters)? This [DOJ OLC Memo](https://www.justice.gov/sites/default/files/olc/opinions/2009/12/31/emoluments-nobel-peace_0.pdf) determined it was not an emolument, but I think Republicans sued him anyway. Why, yes. That sounds exactly like something those petulant little rats would do. ---
**Author:** ![slumtrimpet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@slumtrimpet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slumtrimpet)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2019, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/34281 "2019-07-12T01:19:55Z")
This little goody just pretty much finished me off. [The 14 Characteristics of Fascism](https://ratical.org/ratville/CAH/fasci14chars.html) Just to reiterate: written in 2003 so not tailored to the present. I’d say the USA/Republicans are 14 for 14. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2019, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/34282 "2019-07-12T01:49:41Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > I’m so glad and grateful that you keep up with and understand this stuff. I rely on you for that. That’s kind of you to say and I hope I do you proud. No shortage of lawyers around here to set me straight if I get something wrong and I welcome it if they do. The emoluments issue is of particular interest to me because I believe Trump should have been impeached on Day One due to his violation of it. (Well, that, and his shameless coordination with Russians to get elected.) The Emoluments Clause has never been tested to any great extent; there is little case law to establish precedent. Yet the spirit of the clause is so obviously of extreme importance and concern. If citizens can’t trust whether a president’s policies are based on the best interests of the American people or are instead meant to further his own personal enrichment, then that is largely the foundation for trust in government gone. I think it’s obvious whose interests Trump is working to further in his foreign policy to date. Those who pay him the most – the Saudis and the Russians – always receive favorable treatment, even when it is at the expense and completely at cross purposes with the interests of our national security or traditional values. He is so dangerous. And he has already done so much damage. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2019, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/34283 "2019-07-12T02:11:59Z")
> [@slumtrimpet](#): > > This little goody just pretty much finished me off. > [The 14 Characteristics of Fascism](https://ratical.org/ratville/CAH/fasci14chars.html) > Just to reiterate: written in 2003 so not tailored to the present. > I’d say the USA/Republicans are 14 for 14. :smack: No kidding. It reads like the Republican Party platform. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2019, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/34284 "2019-07-12T03:16:48Z")
Other news you may have missed today… [_ **HOUSE COMMITTEE FIRES SUBPOENA CANNON** _](https://www.politico.com/story/2019/07/11/house-judiciary-approves-subpoenas-for-12-key-mueller-witnesses-including-jared-kushner-1407428) > [@](#): > > The House Judiciary Committee voted on Thursday to authorize subpoenas for 12 crucial witnesses as part of House Democrats’ ongoing investigations targeting President Donald Trump. > … > The subpoena list… includes Trump’s son-in-law and senior adviser Jared Kushner, in addition to some of Mueller’s key witnesses: former Attorney General Jeff Sessions, former Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein, former national security adviser Michael Flynn, former White House Chief of Staff John Kelly and former White House Staff Secretary Rob Porter. [_ **HOUSE TO HOLD BARR IN CRIMINAL CONTEMPT** _](https://www.politico.com/story/2019/07/11/william-barr-wilbur-ross-criminal-contempt-1407410) > [@](#): > > House Democrats will vote next week on criminal contempt charges against Attorney General William Barr and Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross for failing to comply with a congressional subpoena over the 2020 census, Speaker Nancy Pelosi announced Thursday. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=1713) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=1715)