# The Trump Administration: A Clusterfuck in the Making **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 7, 2016, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070 "2016-12-07T00:25:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1719
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2019, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/34365 "2019-07-13T18:57:13Z")
I saw Pence describe it as an “outrage” that people are referring to the detention centers as “concentration camps”. The correct phrase is “tough stuff”, mmkay? ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2019, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/34366 "2019-07-13T19:07:44Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > I saw Pence describe it as an “outrage” that people are referring to the detention centers as “concentration camps”. The correct phrase is “tough stuff”, mmkay? By “tough stuff,” I assume he means, \*“Too bad these children have messed up their lives so bad. Well, better them than me.” \* ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2019, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/34367 "2019-07-13T19:27:12Z")
> [@Defensive\_Indifference](#): > > and they need to get off their asses before the smokestacks go up in the camps. That is also a point worth making. After all, Auschwitz-Birkenau didn’t go up in 36. And the migrant prisoners are already proving inconvenient enough that Trump is scrimping on bare essentials like blankets, toothpaste, soap, food. How long till it just “makes financial sense” to kill them and/or let them die ? ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2019, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/34368 "2019-07-13T19:41:00Z")
> [@dorvann](#): > > That’s my point though. By making Nazi comparisons, the Left is basically giving people an excuse that supporting Trump really isn’t as bad as it seems. I’ve heard relatives of mine who support him already say that. I don’t think it matters whether they call him a Nazi or not. I agree it’s probably not helpful, but people aren’t going to vote for Trump just because they think the use of the term Nazi is a little hyperbolic. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2019, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/34369 "2019-07-13T19:47:28Z")
> [@Defensive\_Indifference](#): > > I don’t think the redhats are looking for excuses or rationalizations to support Trump. Being a racist and misogynist is openly accepted by enough people that you don’t have to worry about being branded one. Trump is going to get almost the same number of votes he got in 2016, because we have that many irredeemable shitheads in the country. The Democrats need to win over the “didn’t bother to vote” demographic. I think it makes sense to convince those people that things really are much worse than they think, and they need to get off their asses before the smokestacks go up in the camps. I don’t know if you can convince people that things are worse than they seem if they don’t perceive it on a personal level. It’s probably better to focus on problems that might actually be experiencing and then proposing solutions. Like if you’re a Democrat, visiting the border is important in terms of demanding justice, but if they visit the border detention centers and completely ignore the Midwestern farmers of laid-off factory workers in Ohio and Michigan, then they’re falling into the same trap that they fell into in 2016. Why tell people that they’re having problems they don’t believe they’re having when there are real problems that they are having that can be brought up? “Trump said he was such a great deal-maker. Well if he’s so great at making deals, how come sales of your crops are down 50-80% and rotting in storage? How come some of you are damn near insolvent? Looks to me like he’s better at making deals with North Koreans and Russians than he is at making deals for American farmers.” ---
**Author:** ![dorvann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df705f/32.png) [@dorvann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dorvann)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2019, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/34370 "2019-07-13T19:50:49Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > That’s just the public confusing concentration camps with extermination camps. Different birds. But hey, call them internment camps if you like : it was a bullshit semantic game then, it’s a bullshit semantic game now ; but the general opinion today (I think ?) is that Japanese-American internment camps were a black mark on US history regardless, so that works. This argument about the term for the camps just reminded me that Star Trek: Deep Space Nine had an episode where the cast went back in time to the year 2020 and found out the US government was rounding up the homeless and financially destitute members of society in “Sanctuary Districts”. [https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Sanctuary\_District](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Sanctuary_District) I’m not sure I’d put past the Trump Administration to think that would be a good idea. Let me clear about something. **I am totally opposed to the internment of immigrants**. I am just scared the Democrats are going to blow their chances at preventing another 4 years of Trump. I’m just not sure of the right way to go about running a campaign to get him out of office. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2019, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/34371 "2019-07-13T19:57:02Z")
We also need to vote out Tom Cotton and his ilk. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2019, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/34372 "2019-07-13T19:59:38Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > I don’t think it matters whether they call him a Nazi or not. I agree it’s probably not helpful, but people aren’t going to vote for Trump just because they think the use of the term Nazi is a little hyperbolic. “I was going to vote for this quasi-Nazi guy, but then I found out he was a REAL Nazi!” ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2019, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/34373 "2019-07-13T21:05:29Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > That’s just the public confusing concentration camps with extermination camps. Different birds. But hey, call them internment camps if you like : it was a bullshit semantic game then, it’s a bullshit semantic game now ; but the general opinion today (I think ?) is that Japanese-American internment camps were a black mark on US history regardless, so that works. Didn’t the Trump campaign defend the WWII internment camps? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2019, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/34374 "2019-07-13T21:19:49Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Didn’t the Trump campaign defend the WWII internment camps? Only until they’ve had a chance to: _Figure out what’s going on,okay?_. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2019, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/34375 "2019-07-13T21:20:09Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > “…beholden to the courts…” > > WTF does that even mean? Anyway, how does he know a multisyllable word like “beholden”? He doesn’t really know it. He apparently thinks “beholden to” means something like “hampered by” or “in thrall to”, as opposed to its actual meaning of “indebted to” or “benefited by”. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2019, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/34376 "2019-07-13T21:24:55Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > He doesn’t really know it. He apparently thinks “beholden to” means something like “hampered by” or “in thrall to”, as opposed to its actual meaning of “indebted to” or “benefited by”. Or “bound by.” ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2019, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/34377 "2019-07-13T21:40:27Z")
> [@dorvann](#): > > I am not a fan of Donald Trump or Mike Pence and I have no intention of voting for them in 2020. > > That being said, after watching the video of Pence at the detention center I must say i think the Democrats might have mis-calculated by referring to the centers as “concentration camps”. Because those words conjure up images of the Nazi camps and anyone who has seen videos of the actual camps the Nazis kept the Jews might come away thinking that the condition the detention centers are in really\*\* are not \*\*that bad. Have you never heard of Potemkin villages? ---
**Author:** ![HelenGawn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a88e4f/32.png) [@HelenGawn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HelenGawn)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2019, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/34378 "2019-07-13T21:45:49Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > They [brought Pence](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/pence-tours-detention-facilities-at-the-border-defends-administrations-treatment-of-migrants/2019/07/12/993f54e0-a4bc-11e9-b8c8-75dae2607e60_story.html?utm_term=.3a33ce3a71b8) to a migrant detention center in Texas to view the ever so comfortable living accommodations for himself. What he found was 400 unshowered men stuffed into “sweltering hot” cells. Even Pence stated, “This is tough stuff.” > > Imagine the centers that weren’t cleared up ahead of time for his photo opportunity. Props to Mother’s Little Angel for not gagging, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_Mabes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mike_mabes/32/1782_2.png) [@Mike\_Mabes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mike_Mabes)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2019, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/34379 "2019-07-13T21:46:18Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > I don’t know if you can convince people that things are worse than they seem if they don’t perceive it on a personal level. It’s probably better to focus on problems that might actually be experiencing and then proposing solutions. Like if you’re a Democrat, visiting the border is important in terms of demanding justice, but if they visit the border detention centers and completely ignore the Midwestern farmers of laid-off factory workers in Ohio and Michigan, then they’re falling into the same trap that they fell into in 2016. Why tell people that they’re having problems they don’t believe they’re having when there are real problems that they are having that can be brought up? > > “Trump said he was such a great deal-maker. Well if he’s so great at making deals, how come sales of your crops are down 50-80% and rotting in storage? How come some of you are damn near insolvent? Looks to me like he’s better at making deals with North Koreans and Russians than he is at making deals for American farmers.” Right. Immigration reform is not going to win this election. It doesn’t mean Democrats should not try to do whatever it is they can do about it. I keep coming back to 70,000 votes in 3 states. Truump can win every state he won last time if the Democratic candidate can just take those states back. Maybe pick up Ohio. There have to be 70,000 disgruntled Trump supporters, right? Of just get more Democrats out to vote in those states. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2019, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/34380 "2019-07-13T22:07:05Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > I don’t know if you can convince people that things are worse than they seem if they don’t perceive it on a personal level. It’s probably better to focus on problems that might actually be experiencing and then proposing solutions. Like if you’re a Democrat, visiting the border is important in terms of demanding justice, but if they visit the border detention centers and completely ignore the Midwestern farmers of laid-off factory workers in Ohio and Michigan, then they’re falling into the same trap that they fell into in 2016. Why tell people that they’re having problems they don’t believe they’re having when there are real problems that they are having that can be brought up? > > “Trump said he was such a great deal-maker. Well if he’s so great at making deals, how come sales of your crops are down 50-80% and rotting in storage? How come some of you are damn near insolvent? Looks to me like he’s better at making deals with North Koreans and Russians than he is at making deals for American farmers.” That last isn’t a bad line to use in a debate against Trump. The problem is, is that we can’t run against Trump. We may win if we run against him, in fact, I think we probably will, but we will win an office, we will not win a country. We don’t really work together anymore. People find reasons to hate each other, they seem to think that there is a noble skill involved in working themselves into an outrage about faults they find in others. We all have faults, we all make mistakes when we are at our best, and sometimes we do some heinous shit when we are at our worst. That’s the stuff that is easy to point out, that’s the stuff that is always ready on the tongues of all critics, what someone else did wrong. Always looking for that dig, for that gotcha that makes you feel so good about yourself. We need to stop doing that. It’s an easy cop-out. “I don’t want to work with those people because they did…” is considered a valid excuse. That a person has been shown to have a flaw is given as a reason to excoriate them. Well, we need to work together, if we are going to solve the problems that we all face together. Past slights are inflated and excuses are made, because hurting the other is more important than preserving yourself. It is a harder thing, but, IMHO, a far better thing, to find the things that you do have in common. Find the things that make you respect your opponent. Work out your differences to be able to work together. There are problems that face all of us. Problems that we cannot solve on our own, we will need to work together, and what we are doing now just further drives everyone apart. ---
**Author:** ![dorvann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df705f/32.png) [@dorvann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dorvann)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2019, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/34381 "2019-07-13T22:32:48Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Have you never heard of Potemkin villages? YES, I HAVE. I am not sure the American people have though. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2019, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/34382 "2019-07-14T02:22:18Z")
Beautifully put, k9. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2019, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/34383 "2019-07-14T03:07:06Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > Beautifully put, k9. I agree, but: > [@k9bfriender](#): > > We need to stop doing that. It’s an easy cop-out. “I don’t want to work with those people because they did…” is considered a valid excuse. That a person has been shown to have a flaw is given as a reason to excoriate them. Well, we need to work together, if we are going to solve the problems that we all face together. Past slights are inflated and excuses are made, because hurting the other is more important than preserving yourself. > > It is a harder thing, but, IMHO, a far better thing, to find the things that you do have in common. Find the things that make you respect your opponent. Work out your differences to be able to work together. > > There are problems that face all of us. Problems that we cannot solve on our own, we will need to work together, and what we are doing now just further drives everyone apart. This will never happen in the US as long as corporations and businesses are allowed to not do it. They drive this attitude, IMO, because they have all the money and all the power _and they ddamned well know it_. So now it’s part of American culture: not performing at peak? Made a mistake? “You’re fired!” If immortal, formless entities are allowed to act that way, how is that not going to filter down into mortal culture? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2019, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/34384 "2019-07-14T03:07:27Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Find the things that make you respect your opponent. I have no respect for anyone who’s OK with our government putting children in dog cages, and there is nothing they can do that can earn it from me. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=1718) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=1720)