# The Trump Administration: A Clusterfuck in the Making **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 7, 2016, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070 "2016-12-07T00:25:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1743
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/34845 "2019-07-26T12:24:57Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > I’d buy those kids another case of PBR. Why? Haven’t they suffered enough? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/34846 "2019-07-26T12:25:33Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > You assume wrongly. The process we have in place today does a thorough job of ensuring that the convicted is truly guilty, the trial and sentencing process was fair, and the sentence is just. It works well - that’s why we haven’t had a wrongful execution in 50+ years, and I do not support weakening it. You’re back! [And you’re still full of shit](https://www.pnas.org/content/111/20/7230): > [@](#): > > With an error rate at trial over 4%, it is all but certain that several of the 1,320 defendants executed since 1977 were innocent (21). Now fuck off some more. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/34847 "2019-07-26T12:31:41Z")
“Wrongful conviction” does _not_ equal “wrongful execution”, and the claim that “it is all but certain” is not supported by anything other than the author’s say-so. Name a person who was executed in this country after 1944 who can be shown to have been wrongly executed. (And don’t say Cameron Willingham. I’ve gone over _several_ times in the past the degree to which he was unambiguously guilty.) ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/34848 "2019-07-26T13:44:20Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > “Wrongful conviction” does _not_ equal “wrongful execution”, and the claim that “it is all but certain” is not supported by anything other than the author’s say-so. > > Name a person who was executed in this country after 1944 who can be shown to have been wrongly executed. > > (And don’t say Cameron Willingham. I’ve gone over _several_ times in the past the degree to which he was unambiguously guilty.) [Wiki.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrongful_execution#United_States) > [@](#): > > Carlos DeLuna was executed in Texas in December 1989 for stabbing a gas station clerk to death. Subsequent investigations cast strong doubt upon DeLuna’s guilt for the murder of which he had been convicted.[24][25] His execution came about six years after the crime was committed. The trial ended up attracting local attention, but it was never suggested that an innocent man was about to be punished while the actual killer went free. DeLuna was found blocks away from the crime scene with $149 in his pocket. From that point on, it went downhill for the young Carlos DeLuna. A wrongful eyewitness testimony is what formed the case against him. Unfortunately, DeLuna’s previous criminal record was very much used against him.[26] The real killer, Carlos Hernandez, was a repeat violent offender who actually had a history of slashing women with his unique buck knife, not to mention he looked very similar to Carlos DeLuna. Hernandez did not keep quiet about his murder; apparently he went around bragging about the killing of Lopez. In 1999, Hernandez was imprisoned for attacking his neighbor with a knife.[27] > > Jesse Tafero was convicted of murder and executed via electric chair in May 1990 in the state of Florida for the murders of two Florida Highway Patrol officers. The conviction of a co-defendant was overturned in 1992 after a recreation of the crime scene indicated a third person had committed the murders.[28] Not only was Tafero wrongly accused, his electric chair malfunctioned as well – three times. As a result, Tafero’s head caught on fire. After this encounter, a debate was focused around humane methods of execution. Lethal injections became more common in the states rather than the electric chair.[29] > > Johnny Garrett of Texas was executed in February 1992 for allegedly raping and murdering a nun. In March 2004 cold-case DNA testing identified Leoncio Rueda as the rapist and murderer of another elderly victim killed four months earlier.[30] Immediately following the nun’s murder, prosecutors and police were certain the two cases were committed by the same assailant.[31] The flawed case is explored in a 2008 documentary entitled The Last Word. I’ll bet you’ll say three is an acceptable error rate. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/34849 "2019-07-26T14:40:04Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Why? Haven’t they suffered enough? Hush! It’s cheap and kids think it’s good. Save us some money, could ya? ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/34850 "2019-07-26T14:44:41Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > “Wrongful conviction” does _not_ equal “wrongful execution”, and the claim that “it is all but certain” is not supported by anything other than the author’s say-so. > > Name a person who was executed in this country after 1944 who can be shown to have been wrongly executed. > > (And don’t say Cameron Willingham. I’ve gone over _several_ times in the past the degree to which he was unambiguously guilty.) I didn’t remember his name, but searching for “Texas arson death penalty case” brought it up pretty quickly. Not sure why you think he was “unambiguously guilty.” A lot of people disagree with you. [Cameron Todd Willingham: Wrongfully Convicted and Executed in Texas](https://www.innocenceproject.org/cameron-todd-willingham-wrongfully-convicted-and-executed-in-texas/) ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/34851 "2019-07-26T14:45:14Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > The bolded part is why Trump got elected: voting for him was a general pushback against systemic fuckedupedness. So one fights fuckedupedness with fuckedupedness, like fire? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/34852 "2019-07-26T14:45:27Z")
Wouldn’t it be nice if we had a thread about the Trump administration’s being a total Charlie Foxtrot, instead of another death penalty thread? ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/34853 "2019-07-26T14:47:24Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > I find it amusing that those who are not actually facing the death penalty say they would prefer to die than spend decades in prison. The death penalty should be forever abolished, but assisted suicide should be available to those sentenced to life without parole, IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/34854 "2019-07-26T14:49:24Z")
> [@robby](#): > > I didn’t remember his name, but searching for “Texas arson death penalty case” brought it up pretty quickly. Not sure why you think he was “unambiguously guilty.” A lot of people disagree with you. > > [Cameron Todd Willingham: Wrongfully Convicted and Executed in Texas](https://www.innocenceproject.org/cameron-todd-willingham-wrongfully-convicted-and-executed-in-texas/) That case is just all kinds of fucked up. If you want to convict that guy on that kind of shithouse evidence, fine, put him in prison and let him fight for 2 decades to prove his innocence. But I can’t for the life of me how anyone can go to sleep at night knowing that they killed a man with that much reasonable doubt. When I was younger and a product of my Deep South environment, I used to be a hardcore proponent of capital punishment. I’ve evolved to the point where I find it almost completely unnecessary and impractical except for the most heinous of crimes, such as mass murder or terrorism. And even then, it’s hard to argue that life imprisonment wouldn’t do the trick. Capital punishment exists for no other reason than to even scores. We should be more evolved as creatures than that. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/34855 "2019-07-26T15:06:03Z")
Going back to that brilliant act of Google Search sabotage (albeit unintentional in this case), I am reminded of the potential impact of visual communication in the modern age. We live in an age of memes, and memes can be powerful ways to get an idea across. That photoshop is probably the most powerful expression of Trump’s treachery that I’ve seen to date. Words sometimes just don’t do it. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/34856 "2019-07-26T15:42:58Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > You two understand that the point of **Ike** ’s quote is that rich people do not need to do those things, hence, to say that the law is agnostic toward one’s level of wealth is fatuous. The quote is intended to look good on the surface of it but become ugly upon even cursory examination. Re-reading it, I can see that point. That said the rich can and do steal, including occasionally trivial items, and also on rare occasion they can be guilty of vagrancy (usually linked to drinking or drug problems). Not common, but they also don’t get the same treatment as the poor, at least once their identity is known. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/34857 "2019-07-26T15:43:02Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Having a death penalty is a _good_ thing. I’d be tempted to simply say that you’re misguided, but I happen to know that you have been notified that capital punishment is wrong always and everywhere. Starting to think you may actually be Evil. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/34858 "2019-07-26T15:45:36Z")
> [@Ukulele\_Ike](#): > > “The law, in its infinite wisdom, electrocutes rich and poor alike for sleeping under bridges, begging in the streets, and stealing bread.” I thought it was _majesty_, not _wisdom_… ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/34859 "2019-07-26T15:52:41Z")
> [@galen\_ubal](#): > > [U.S. lawmakers delay action to hold Trump adviser Conway in contempt](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-conway/u-s-lawmakers-delay-action-to-hold-trump-adviser-conway-in-contempt-idUSKCN1UK1UP?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+reuters%2FtopNews+%28News+%2F+US+%2F+Top+News%29). Heh. Pretty sure most of them already _hold_ her in contempt… ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/34860 "2019-07-26T16:15:40Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > The death penalty should be forever abolished, but assisted suicide should be available to those sentenced to life without parole, IMHO. This is a great idea. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/34861 "2019-07-26T18:07:35Z")
07/25/19 A Border Patrol official, testifying before Congress, claimed that the US-born citizen who was detained for 26 days never tried to claim he was a citizen. Francisco Erwin Galicia’s lawyer produced a letter from the Border patrol accusing Gailicia of having lied that he was a citizen _ **while in custody** _. > **[Border patrol official testifies citizen who was detained for nearly a month...](https://thehill.com/latino/454837-border-patrol-official-testifies-citizen-who-was-detained-for-nearly-a-month-didnt-say/)** > > A top U.S. Border Patrol official on Thursday testified that Francisco Erwin Galicia, an 18-year-old American citizen who was detained by immigration services for more than 20 days, did n… ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/34862 "2019-07-26T18:12:57Z")
07/26/2019 Trump goes ballistic after a Fox News poll shows him trailing Biden. “So different from what they used to be during the 2016 Primaries, & before - Proud Warriors!” > **[Trump knocks Fox News after poll shows him losing to Biden by 10 points](https://www.politico.com/amp/story/2019/07/26/trump-fox-news-biden-poll-1437265)** > > The poll Trump appears to be referencing shows the president losing a handful of hypothetical matchups against 2020 frontrunners. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/34863 "2019-07-26T18:14:15Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > I thought it was _majesty_, not _wisdom_… Oh, you can find all sorts of translations on the internets. And thanks to all my Bros for explaining the joke so I didn’t have to. We’re just like Edgar Bergen and Charlie McCarthy. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/34864 "2019-07-26T18:27:51Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > So one fights fuckedupedness with fuckedupedness, like fire? In this, case, yes, it appears that lots of people thought that would be a good idea. And why not? Having Obama in office for 8 years didn’t really work in their favor much, except for people now having to pay for insurance; people differed on whether or not this was a good thing, in large part because even with insurance, health care in the US remains unbelievably expensive. If the system isn’t working for you and it won’t/can’t change to work for you, why not stop the system from working? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=1742) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=1744)