# The Trump Administration: A Clusterfuck in the Making **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 7, 2016, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070 "2016-12-07T00:25:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1750
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/34985 "2019-07-29T01:42:54Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Nope, never. I think he’s the first poster I’m going to have to put on ignore. It will.speed up scrolling through threads. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/34986 "2019-07-29T01:45:44Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > When I’ve gone “chicken little” in these threads, it’s not because I’ve believed that we’re all going to be tossed into a salt mine for posting too much on SDMB. That’s not really what life in an authoritarian country looks or feels like. Life in an authoritarian country means that big business can cheat you out of money, force you to work overtime without paying, trick you into believing you have insurance you don’t really have, poison your drinking water, pump filth into the air you breathe, make the cars you drive and the planes you fly much more dangerous, the food you eat contaminated, the apartments you live in affordable one month, completely unaffordable the next…and there’s not a fucking thing you can do about it, because everyone knows that elections are probably a sham and that guy in the agency who promised to look into your grievance works for the guy who’s taking money from an investor in some business that’s ruining your life. That’s what life in an authoritarian country looks like. And that’s the world I’m afraid we’re heading into. That’s only if you happen to be of the accepted demographic and can keep your head down. Things get much worse for minorities who can be blamed for all of those woes that come about due to the authoritarian rule. > [@](#): > > But what about her emails? Forget her emails, have you seen her emoji’s? But, in seriousness, for the pit, anyway, there is a real concern that with the politicization of our intelligence agencies, whoever the next nominee will be will likely be in for a severe October surprise. Whether or not the Obama administration did anything wrong towards Trump’s campaign (I don’t think so), Trump thinks that they did, and that not only turn about, but escalation, is the way to play. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/34987 "2019-07-29T02:08:21Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > That’s only if you happen to be of the accepted demographic and can keep your head down. > > Things get much worse for minorities who can be blamed for all of those woes that come about due to the authoritarian rule. This is true, and I think we’re only going to see more racism in the months and possibly years ahead. And the first signs of this return to institutionalized racism will be the destruction of the civil rights division within the DoJ and federal law enforcement. Perhaps we’ve already started: > **[Attorney General Overrules Civil Rights Division To Protect White Cop - Above...](https://abovethelaw.com/2019/07/attorney-general-overrules-civil-rights-division-to-protect-white-cop/)** > > Justice Department will not bring charges against the police who murdered Eric Garner. > [@](#): > > In totally unsurprising news, Attorney General and Trump Bather William Barr declined to bring charges against Daniel Pantaleo, the NYPD officer who choked Eric Garner to death in broad daylight. > > To come to this conclusion, **Barr had to overrule the recommendation of the Civil Rights division at the Department of Justice** , according to two DOJ officials > **[Judge Says Administration Can't Change Lawyers In Census Citizenship Question...](https://www.npr.org/2019/07/07/739369416/justice-department-changes-legal-team-behind-census-citizenship-question-case)** > > The judge called the effort by the Justice Department to replace its legal team "patently deficient." > [@](#): > > Furman is allowing two lawyers to withdraw from the lawsuit. One has left the department and the other has left the civil division. It’s no secret that when the Supreme Court ruled that states no longer required federal elections oversight that it was open season on the voting rights of minorities (blacks, mostly). But that’s only the first step. It’s not enough to win elections, because one day all those people just might make the effort to drive to that one polling station in town and stand in line for two hours to vote if they’re sufficiently pissed enough and determined enough to vote. Just like it was never enough for whites to keep blacks from voting during the late 19th and early 20th Centuries, it’s not enough for White Christian nationalists now, either. But the first step is to remove the federal hand that guides the states to make sure they do the right thing. The idea is to return to a time when state and local interests could institutionalize racism. > [@k9bfriender](#): > > But, in seriousness, for the pit, anyway, there is a real concern that with the politicization of our intelligence agencies, whoever the next nominee will be will likely be in for a severe October surprise. Whether or not the Obama administration did anything wrong towards Trump’s campaign (I don’t think so), Trump thinks that they did, and that not only turn about, but escalation, is the way to play. I think there is a very good chance that a former high-profile official from the Obama administration will be indicted for…something. I’m guessing perhaps Eric Holder or Loretta Lynch, but who knows, maybe Hillary herself. They probably wouldn’t get convicted and a judge could very well dismiss the case early on, but the threat of having Trump and Barr use all the resources of the federal government against a political enemy would be enough to shut his enemies up. Make them pay legal fees that could bankrupt them if nothing else. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/34988 "2019-07-29T02:14:23Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > Good article, good post. But I think I can refute at least a word of Sumner’s opinion, namely that it isn’t the case that every. single. source. of information is blocked. For example, there are things like the journals Nature or Applied Chemistry, to name just two. The IPCC report is still available if you want to make an evidence-based argument for climate change. So, public sources of information still exist, and our own eyes of course. Yes, there are still good sources of information that haven’t been blocked. One of the examples in which I take a small measure of solace is the fact that Barr isn’t comfortable enough to disregard the rule of law to the point of simply burying the Mueller report. It really is out there for anyone to read, and even in its redacted version, no reasonable person who actually reads it can dispute Mueller’s evidence, meaning and intent. It in no way exonerates Trump, and it in no way says that Trump did not collude with Russians. (You of course already know all this.) But who knows what else he _has_ successfully buried? > [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > Not sure what to do about all of this though. It is starting to look like some kind of fascist emergency, yet I can feel my own denial because of the comfortable above-it-all bubble I (fortunately) inhabit. Maybe things won’t go full-tilt crazy, right? Things are much further down the full-tilt crazy road than I think a lot of people are comfortable admitting to themselves. And let’s face it: If we acknowledge how far afield of ‘normal’ we’ve gotten, then we, you know, have to actually _do_ something about it. > [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > But, I’ve had the nightmare about The Autocrat for many years, going back long before Trump. When a nightmare comes true, well, it’s not good. Does it seem like a nightmare coming true to you dopers? The mass detentions on the border are kind of a nightmare, whether they are literally concentration camps or not. The unprecedented silence out of the executive branch is certainly ominous- everybody who knows anything seems to be behaving like one of Trump’s NDA-silenced whores, bound with tape over their mouths. Isn’t that an image straight from Trump’s speeches? To this Doper, yes, it feels like a nightmare coming true. Relentlessly stripping Congress of its role of oversight. Putting people in detention camps in abhorrent, unacceptable conditions on the _pretext_ of a racist-based danger that is wholly manufactured. Militarizing ICE, toying with Posse Comitatus. Disregarding constitutional norms, customs and practices of government. Flagrantly ignoring subpoenas for people and documents. Failing to safeguard our elections. And much more. This is scary stuff for a country that stands on the rule of law. > [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > What do we do next? Sumner thinks Trump will ignore even the Supreme Court if they order him to hand over information. That is at least a forward looking statement; we don’t know yet. Will the House send their Sergeant at Arms to apprehend Barr &etc. for their blatant flouting of subpoenas and the law generally? Are they “spineless wienies” again if they don’t? Are the Dems spineless wienies for being caught flat-footed by such an assault of criminality? I don’t think anyone quite knows what to do, which is why Dems are trying to proceed cautiously. Once an action is taken, we must live with the consequences of it – even if it’s the wrong choice. We’re in uncharted waters. One thing I do hope every Democrat in office continues to do, and that is to stress the illegality of the steps Barr is taking. To act on behalf of Trump’s interests instead of the best interests of the country is criminal. I hope there is punishment for him soon. He is an illegitimate AG appointed by an illegitimate “president.” We must never overlook these truths. > [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > Well, tell me if there is really an assault of criminality afoot in America these days. If so, then there is a nightmare scenario playing out. If not, I’m overly paranoid and too reactive towards all the sensationalist shit flying around lately. But the complete stonewall of information in defiance of subpoenas and the law is hard to ignore. It is. So let’s not ignore it. I hope everyone will do all they can and a bit more. Speak up. Vote in _every_ election. Bug your congress persons. Protest. Give money. Make a ruckus to whatever extent you can. None of what is happening in this “administration” is normal or acceptable, ever. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/34989 "2019-07-29T04:52:04Z")
> [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](#): > > I just threw up a little in my mouth. > > Seriously, this is just so bizarre. > > [https://www.amazon.com/Beautiful-Poetry-Donald-Trump-Canons/dp/1786892278/ref=asc\_df\_1786892278/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312089030079&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=7730650852219818016&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9032475&hvtargid=pla-415511088626&psc=1](https://www.amazon.com/Beautiful-Poetry-Donald-Trump-Canons/dp/1786892278/ref=asc_df_1786892278/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312089030079&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=7730650852219818016&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9032475&hvtargid=pla-415511088626&psc=1) > > It’s a book about the beautiful poetry of Donald Trump. > > I’m not reading it. Eh, I dunno, I might get it. I get constipated sometimes. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/34990 "2019-07-29T11:02:13Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > No. I said that something Trump could do to help the impoverished citizens of Baltimore would be to veto any minimum wage legislation that made it to his desk. Or he could just have a word with his slumlord son-in-law, who owns a large number of [vermin-infested properties](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7295619/Jared-Kushner-accused-slumlord-tenants-Maryland-properties.html) in the Baltimore area. That might be simpler. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/34991 "2019-07-29T11:10:56Z")
> [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](#): > > I just threw up a little in my mouth. > > Seriously, this is just so bizarre. > > [https://www.amazon.com/Beautiful-Poetry-Donald-Trump-Canons/dp/1786892278/ref=asc\_df\_1786892278/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312089030079&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=7730650852219818016&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9032475&hvtargid=pla-415511088626&psc=1](https://www.amazon.com/Beautiful-Poetry-Donald-Trump-Canons/dp/1786892278/ref=asc_df_1786892278/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312089030079&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=7730650852219818016&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9032475&hvtargid=pla-415511088626&psc=1) > > It’s a book about the beautiful poetry of Donald Trump. > > I’m not reading it. WHAT? It’s plagiarism! How dare they steal what I took from Trump! [https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=873889&highlight=Poetry+Trump](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=873889&highlight=Poetry+Trump) ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/34992 "2019-07-29T11:50:59Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > WHAT? > It’s plagiarism! > > How dare they steal what I took from Trump! > > [https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=873889&highlight=Poetry+Trump](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=873889&highlight=Poetry+Trump) IMHO, one of the very best Trump literary interpreters is [Yastreblyansky](https://www.blogger.com/profile/08335868257729063363) over at [The Rectification of Names](http://yastreblyansky.blogspot.com/). (Also some of the best commentary on politics, culture and current events you can find.) Here’s a short sample from **Elegy: Homelessness in America** by Donald J. Trump: [ > [@DJT (transcription Yastreblyansky)](#): > > And you have people that work in those cities. They work in > office buildings and to get into the building, they have to > walk through a scene that nobody would have believed possible > three years ago. And this is the liberal establishment. > > This is what I’m fighting. They – I don’t know > if they’re afraid of votes. I don’t know if they really > believe that this should be taking place. But it’s a > terrible thing that’s taking place. And we may be – > > You know, I had a situation when I first became President, > we had certain areas of Washington, D.C. where that > was starting to happen, and I ended it very quickly. I said, > “You can’t do that.” ]([The Rectification of Names: Literary Corner: Decompensation](http://yastreblyansky.blogspot.com/2019/07/literary-corner.html)) ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/34993 "2019-07-29T13:56:10Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Or he could just have a word with his slumlord son-in-law, who owns a large number of [vermin-infested properties](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7295619/Jared-Kushner-accused-slumlord-tenants-Maryland-properties.html) in the Baltimore area. That might be simpler. Yes that will have a huge impact. Good idea. The citizens of Baltimore are already planning your ticker tape parade. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/34994 "2019-07-29T14:35:28Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > …Here’s a short sample from **Elegy: Homelessness in America** by Donald J. Trump… Wherever there are rat-infested cities, Ma I’ll be there. Wherever there are greedy slumlords, feeding on the misery of the poor Oh, you better believe! I’ll be there… ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/34995 "2019-07-29T14:42:34Z")
I’ll be around in the dark -once I’ve cut your lights off. Wherever you can look, wherever there’s a fight that I started, because hungry people want to eat I’ll be here. On the throne, tweeting. ---
**Author:** ![Lurking\_Quahog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lurking_quahog/32/21274_2.png) [@Lurking\_Quahog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lurking_Quahog)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/34996 "2019-07-29T14:43:24Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Apart from the racist undertones, there’s something I thought was interesting about Trump’s attack on Cummings. Trump said Cummings should spend more time addressing the problems of people in his district. As the President, does Trump not realize that Baltimore is also part of his district? > > I think it’s significant that the President could wash his hands of an entire American city, say that the problems of hundreds of thousands of Americans are no concern of his, an no one bats an eye. You mean like he did with Puerto Rico? Oh, wait. I forgot, he DID toss them paper towels. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/34997 "2019-07-29T15:00:29Z")
[Trump says Daniel Coats, director of national intelligence, to step down](https://www.vox.com/2019/7/28/1499627/coats-trump-fired-intelligence-north-korea-iran) _Daniel Coats said what’s happening in the world. In the Trump era, that’s an act of defiance._ > [@](#): > > President Donald Trump’s Director of National Intelligence Dan Coats will soon be replaced because he kept doing the one thing Trump couldn’t stand: telling the truth. > > … > > But the likely reason Trump was so disappointed in his intelligence chief isn’t that he did his job badly — it’s that he did it well. > > The job of the director of national intelligence is to oversee the entire US intelligence community — a sprawling collection of agencies that includes the FBI, the CIA, and the NSA as well as offices within the Pentagon, State Department, and even the Department of Energy. > > The DNI is also meant to serve as “the principal adviser” to the president on all “intelligence matters related to national security.” And it’s in that capacity that he seems to have run afoul of the president. > > This was most evidence on January 29, when Coats and other top US intelligence officials presented their annual “Worldwide Threat Assessment” report to the Senate Intelligence Committee. That report is supposed to present “the collective insights” of the entire intelligence community about the biggest threats currently facing the United States. > > But the picture Coats and his colleagues presented that day was in stark contrast to the picture of the world Trump and his administration have been trying to sell to the American people. > > One after the other, Coats and the others testified that ISIS isn’t on the verge of defeat; that North Korea isn’t likely to give up its nuclear arsenal anytime soon; that Iran isn’t currently trying to acquire a nuclear weapon. > > They also testified that climate change is not only real but also a genuine national security threat. And they reaffirmed that Russia continues to interfere in US politics and plans to do so again in the 2020 election. > > All those assessments, stunningly, countered Trump’s own stated positions and worldview. And he was furious. > > … > > Now it looks like Trump picked someone who will tell him what he wants to hear, not what’s true. That’s a huge problem, as the DNI’s job is to give the president the information he needs to make informed policy decisions. > > Which means that while Trump may be happier with whoever his new intelligence director ends up being, America will be less safe for it. As I’ve said before, Trump is the best investment Putin ever made. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/34998 "2019-07-29T15:07:29Z")
I just heard Trump give an oral statement on the shooting at the Gilroy Garlic Festival. I haven’t seen a transcript so I can’t paste his exact words, but he definitely described the victims as “three **citizens**.” (followed by “thoughts and prayers, blah blah blah”, in his inimitable reading-from-a-book-report oratory style.) The names of the victims have not been released yet. Either Trump assumed the victims were citizens, which given the demographics of the Bay Area is an extremely shaky assumption; or he inquired about their citizenship status before making his statement, which would be appalling but believable. ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/34999 "2019-07-29T15:07:39Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Or he could just have a word with his slumlord son-in-law, who owns a large number of [vermin-infested properties](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7295619/Jared-Kushner-accused-slumlord-tenants-Maryland-properties.html) in the Baltimore area. That might be simpler. Are you kidding? He’s too busy solving the problems of the Middle East, and the opioid crisis. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/35000 "2019-07-29T15:21:33Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Yes that will have a huge impact. Good idea. The citizens of Baltimore are already planning your ticker tape parade. Do you perhaps live in a world in which you imagine you contribute anything of value? And just out of curiosity, what color is the sky in your world? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/35001 "2019-07-29T15:48:39Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > No. I said that something Trump could do to help the impoverished citizens of Baltimore would be to veto any minimum wage legislation that made it to his desk. > > \*Catherine \*Pugh did the same. So why bring up Mayor Pugh? She had nothing to do with the conversation at hand. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/35002 "2019-07-29T16:12:44Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > Things are much further down the full-tilt crazy road than I think a lot of people are comfortable admitting to themselves. And let’s face it: If we acknowledge how far afield of ‘normal’ we’ve gotten, then we, you know, have to actually _do_ something about it. This is truth. More about this later. > [@Aspenglow](#): > > To this Doper, yes, it feels like a nightmare coming true. Relentlessly stripping Congress of its role of oversight. Putting people in detention camps in abhorrent, unacceptable conditions on the _pretext_ of a racist-based danger that is wholly manufactured. Militarizing ICE, toying with Posse Comitatus. Disregarding constitutional norms, customs and practices of government. Flagrantly ignoring subpoenas for people and documents. Failing to safeguard our elections. And much more. > > This is scary stuff for a country that stands on the rule of law. VERY scary stuff. We should never have elected a president who did not know what those norms are and who has been above laws and social customs all his life. We should have never elected similar types of people who can support him in his efforts. But it is far too late for that thinking now: we’re already here. > [@Aspenglow](#): > > I don’t think anyone quite knows what to do, which is why Dems are trying to proceed cautiously. Once an action is taken, we must live with the consequences of it – even if it’s the wrong choice. We’re in uncharted waters. And that makes the pace of the opposition understandable, but their pace ignores the fact that we’re already broken. We’ve gone beyond “breaking” a long time ago, IMO; we’re broken. > [@Aspenglow](#): > > One thing I do hope every Democrat in office continues to do, and that is to stress the illegality of the steps Barr is taking. To act on behalf of Trump’s interests instead of the best interests of the country is criminal. I hope there is punishment for him soon. He is an illegitimate AG appointed by an illegitimate “president.” We must never overlook these truths. Change a few words and a Republican could have said this in 2016: "One thing I do hope every Republican in office continues to do, and that is to stress the illegality of the steps Lynch is taking. To act on behalf of Clinton’s interests instead of the best interests of the country is criminal. I hope there is punishment for her soon. She is an illegitimate AG appointed by an illegitimate "president.“We must never overlook these truths.” Sound kind of familiar? Don’t forget that the GOP has the same conviction that they are right that you (royal you) do. They are pissed at almost exactly the same things you are, only at your side. Obama was illegitimate because he wasn’t really American, they believe. His administration covered up crimes, they believe. Obama wanted to take their guns away, they believe. And they are fighting tooth and nail to stop that, to stop the erosion of their society into a form they do not want. Don’t forget that the other side has goals they believe in at least as strongly as you believe in yours. I say “at least” because I see a difference between the two sides, one that spells defeat for the left. The difference (this is the “more later” stuff) is that the GOP has expressed an overt willingness to use violence, to even kill people, to get what they want and they’ve been preparing to do it for a few decades now, via propaganda and militia training. What did the country learn from the Bundy standoff? From the Malheur Wildlife Refuge takeover? From the threats to kill law enforcement officers by Oregon Senator Brian Boquist? Not much, apparently. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/35003 "2019-07-29T16:31:38Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > This is truth. More about this later. > VERY scary stuff. We should never have elected a president who did not know what those norms are and who has been above laws and social customs all his life. We should have never elected similar types of people who can support him in his efforts. But it is far too late for that thinking now: we’re already here.And that makes the pace of the opposition understandable, but their pace ignores the fact that we’re already broken. We’ve gone beyond “breaking” a long time ago, IMO; we’re broken.Change a few words and a Republican could have said this in 2016: "One thing I do hope every Republican in office continues to do, and that is to stress the illegality of the steps Lynch is taking. To act on behalf of Clinton’s interests instead of the best interests of the country is criminal. I hope there is punishment for her soon. She is an illegitimate AG appointed by an illegitimate "president.“We must never overlook these truths.” Sound kind of familiar? > > \*\*Don’t forget that the GOP has the same conviction that they are right that you (royal you) do. They are pissed at almost exactly the same things you are, only at your side. Obama was illegitimate because he wasn’t really American, they believe. His administration covered up crimes, they believe. Obama wanted to take their guns away, they believe. > \*\* > And they are fighting tooth and nail to stop that, to stop the erosion of their society into a form they do not want. > > Don’t forget that the other side has goals they believe in at least as strongly as you believe in yours. > > I say “at least” because I see a difference between the two sides, one that spells defeat for the left. The difference (this is the “more later” stuff) is that the GOP has expressed an overt willingness to use violence, to even kill people, to get what they want and they’ve been preparing to do it for a few decades now, via propaganda and militia training. > > What did the country learn from the Bundy standoff? From the Malheur Wildlife Refuge takeover? From the threats to kill law enforcement officers by Oregon Senator Brian Boquist? Not much, apparently. Y’see, the difference is that they’re wrong. You can tell that they’re wrong from the fact that they’re Republicans. And so can they. I’ve promulgated this fact many times here on the SDMB. The only excuse they could possibly have for not having seen it is that they don’t read the SDMB. And of course, there’s NO excuse to not read the SDMB. QED ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/35004 "2019-07-29T16:41:17Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > It is. So let’s not ignore it. I hope everyone will do all they can and a bit more. Speak up. Vote in _every_ election. Bug your congress persons. Protest. Give money. Make a ruckus to whatever extent you can. None of what is happening in this “administration” is normal or acceptable, ever. Out of all that you mention, I think protesting and mass demonstration is the only thing that will actually stop the madness. People have to be pissed off enough, and in numbers sufficient enough, for the corrupt GOP to get the message. But I’m afraid that among the masses have to be a fairly large number of current GOP’ers who quit the party. I just don’t see the level of alarm that we should be seeing, and I’ve felt that way for a long time. Honestly, not nearly enough progressives are sufficiently concerned, either. It’s too late to scream “fire” once the entire building is burned to the ground. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=1749) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=1751)