# The Trump Administration: A Clusterfuck in the Making **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 7, 2016, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070 "2016-12-07T00:25:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1773
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2019, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/35445 "2019-08-15T00:22:07Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > … And then there’s the manner of how Trump has made his changes: > > Bush 2 and Reagan (and, to a lesser extent, Clinton) created distortions in the market which occurred via policy implementations under a known democratic process - unfortunate, but it happens. The only thing which has occurred in this manner in the Trump administration is the 2017 tax cut for millionaires - _everything else_ has been Executive Ordered, those orders can be reversed at a whim, and Congress is powerless to stop him. … Excellent point. That point is one I’ve been expecting the dark-money titans—the major Republican donors—to be aware of and unhappy about, from the beginning. Yet they’ve apparently decided that the inevitable uncertainty inherent in letting a mentally unstable person have so much power over the economy, is acceptable. Trump, in addition to executive orders economically attacking sovereign nations, has performed some tentative acts of economic revenge against individuals and companies that displease him. Again, I’d have expected the major donors to find this unacceptable. So far, that hasn’t been the case. One wonders if there is some cumulative effect that will eventually cause one or more of them to pick up the phone and talk to some Cabinet members. We shall see. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2019, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/35446 "2019-08-15T00:49:07Z")
Great post, **JohnT**. You’ve raised the most important dangers of the Trump ‘presidency.’ We may never be able to fix the damage, and we’ve lost so much trust the rest of the world used to have in us. Really well said. Getting rid of Trump does not get rid of the dipshits or evil kakistocrats who supported him or more importantly, their agenda. Trump is just their useful idiot – as much as he is for Putin. It’s going to be a significant challenge to beat them back to under their slimy rocks. And fuck knows how long it’s going to take to rebuild our institutions – State, Energy, Labor, EPA, Housing, etc., etc. – plus the judiciary, FBI and other national security agencies. The vast amount of institutional knowledge lost across the board should make every American sink to their knees, hang their head and cry. It will take _decades_ to recover that. I’ve always said we’ll never survive a second illegitimate Trump term. I feel that more than ever. Hell, I’m not sure we’re going to survive the first illegitimate one. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2019, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/35447 "2019-08-15T01:32:36Z")
Trump attempts to solve the Hong Kong crisis [through Twitter](https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1161774305895694336): > [@Donald Trump](#): > > I know President Xi of China very well. He is a great leader who very much has the respect of his people. He is also a good man in a “tough business.” I have ZERO doubt that if President Xi wants to quickly and humanely solve the Hong Kong problem, he can do it. Personal meeting? Incidentally, this is what Trump [said to _Playboy_](https://twitter.com/morten/status/1161364209923502086) in 1990 about the Tiananmen Square massacre: > [@Donald Trump](#): > > “When the students poured into Tiananmen Square, the Chinese government almost blew it. Then they were vicious, they were horrible, but they put it down with strength. That shows you the power of strength” – Donald Trump, March 1990. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2019, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/35448 "2019-08-15T01:39:28Z")
What do you know, [the shitgibbon essentially admits it’s Americans paying for his petulance](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-just-acknowledged-that-tariffs-are-paid-by-americans-footwear-trade-group-ceo-says/ar-AAFKWjn): > [@](#): > > "The announcement today that the Trump Administration will be delaying the additional 10% tariff on some footwear until December 1 is an acknowledgment that tariffs are indeed paid by Americans,” the group’s president and CEO Matt Priest said in a statement. ---
**Author:** ![DWMarch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwmarch/32/1010_2.png) [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2019, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/35449 "2019-08-15T02:40:36Z")
Because nobody can have anything better than what Trump has, he may have spilled the beans on secret US weapons. Or else he might have just lied. Would he do that? > **[Did Trump just spill classified military secrets on Twitter?](https://thinkprogress.org/trump-brags-about-military-secrets-that-may-not-actually-exist-9fd8339f617a/)** > > Whether accurate or not, it's an alarming admission. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2019, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/35450 "2019-08-15T02:42:40Z")
This would imply that Trump paid attention during an intelligence briefing, which seems unlikely. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2019, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/35451 "2019-08-15T04:36:58Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > On the lighter side of the trump news, some people in NYC want to rename the street that trump tower is on. > > [Guess who they want to name it after?](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trump-tower-obama-renaming-petition_n_5d537d82e4b05fa9df069011?fbclid=IwAR0Cj2almyRFJred3lzzAZ4dAW03hgdhFnFDf0RSBT726KCOh-2dAUdiMhk) I guessed right, do I win a No-Prize? Out of thread: Cal, I’m not sure whether I hate your sig or appreciate it. On one hand, it’s an earworm trigger. On the other, anything that helps lighten threads like this one is welcome. du du du du dududu banana… ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2019, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/35452 "2019-08-15T05:47:09Z")
[Leaked Draft of Trump Executive Order to ‘Censor the Internet’ Denounced as Dangerous, Unconstitutional Edict](https://www.commondreams.org/news/2019/08/11/leaked-draft-trump-executive-order-censor-internet-denounced-dangerous) > [@](#): > > Civil liberties groups are warning of a major threat to online freedoms and First Amendment rights if a leaked draft of a Trump administration edict—dubbed by critics as a “Censor the Internet” executive order that would give powerful federal agencies far-reaching powers to pick and choose which kind of Internet material is and is not acceptable—is allowed to go into effect. Trying to imagine the bastard trying to read any of this thread. Oh the umbrage that would ensue. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2019, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/35453 "2019-08-15T12:32:31Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > Great post, **JohnT**. You’ve raised the most important dangers of the Trump ‘presidency.’ We may never be able to fix the damage, and we’ve lost so much trust the rest of the world used to have in us. Really well said. > > Getting rid of Trump does not get rid of the dipshits or evil kakistocrats who supported him or more importantly, their agenda. Trump is just their useful idiot – as much as he is for Putin. It’s going to be a significant challenge to beat them back to under their slimy rocks. > > And fuck knows how long it’s going to take to rebuild our institutions – State, Energy, Labor, EPA, Housing, etc., etc. – plus the judiciary, FBI and other national security agencies. The vast amount of institutional knowledge lost across the board should make every American sink to their knees, hang their head and cry. It will take _decades_ to recover that. > > I’ve always said we’ll never survive a second illegitimate Trump term. I feel that more than ever. Hell, I’m not sure we’re going to survive the first illegitimate one. From June: [The bond market may be signaling something worse than a recession: Distrust in America.](https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/06/04/perspectives/bond-market-distrust-in-america/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2019, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/35454 "2019-08-15T12:45:03Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Down a neat 800 points today. > > Lol, just got two notifications on my phone, both of them mentioning “recession”. If you are many years from retirement it’s nice to see the stock market have some discounted prices. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2019, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/35455 "2019-08-15T12:45:33Z")
Trump has his Coyote moment when, midair, he appreciates the gravity of his situation. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2019, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/35456 "2019-08-15T12:50:15Z")
4-D chess, mi amigos. The Orange Turd is creating an economic downturn so we can all buy cheap stock. Very genius. Much winning. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2019, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/35457 "2019-08-15T13:00:29Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > 4-D chess, mi amigos. The Orange Turd is creating an economic downturn so we can all buy cheap stock. > > Very genius. Much winning. Can’t buy cheap stock if short sighted people don’t sell. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2019, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/35458 "2019-08-15T13:21:46Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > **McCain**? I like that. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2019, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/35459 "2019-08-15T13:30:51Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > If you are many years from retirement it’s nice to see the stock market have some discounted prices. Which is what I tell my son who is just starting to fund his 401k and a bit dismayed that he is currently underwater. On the other hand, I find it a bit disconcerting since I am mostly retired and about ready to start living on my investments. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2019, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/35460 "2019-08-15T13:40:45Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > I guessed right, do I win a No-Prize? > > Out of thread: Cal, I’m not sure whether I hate your sig or appreciate it. On one hand, it’s an earworm trigger. On the other, anything that helps lighten threads like this one is welcome. du du du du dududu banana… I think that might mean it’s time to change it. Sorry about the earworm. But at least I’m memorable. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2019, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/35461 "2019-08-15T14:05:47Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Naw, it goes way further than this, guys. So much of economic growth depends upon many of the players understanding the rules and being confident enough to form agreements based upon those same rules. > > Trump has destroyed rule after agreement after accord after treaty after norm after relationship (repeat x!y times) so often that the economic world which existed from 1948-2016 is in shambles (and I think people are beginning to wake up to this fact). And it’s not just “oh, we can elect a Dem and things will go back to normal”, no… omg, not at all. Why should they trust America not to elect another Trump? Why… now given the opportunity to move past the _Pax Americana_… would SE Asia, Europe, even Africa want to go back to those days? And you can’t just say “oops on that destroyed trade agreement. Quid pro ante?” because not a single country will accept that. > > And then there’s the manner of how Trump has made his changes: > > Bush 2 and Reagan (and, to a lesser extent, Clinton) created distortions in the market which occurred via policy implementations under a known democratic process - unfortunate, but it happens. The only thing which has occurred in this manner in the Trump administration is the 2017 tax cut for millionaires - _everything else_ has been Executive Ordered, those orders can be reversed at a whim, and Congress is powerless to stop him. And since there is no plan behind his actions, not a single person on this planet knows what the end game it going to be… or even _when_ it will be, for Trump may get reelected. > > Trump owns the upcoming recession even more than Dubya deserved the blame for 2008 as a lot of the systemic damage was done during the Clinton years (smoot-hawley repeal, derivatives removed from federal oversight, more). > > But this? This is Donald Trump. And there is no doubt about it I don’t disagree with any of this; Trump’s policies are definitely weakening the structure of the global economic system, so in that sense, yes, his policies do contribute to a recession, but no economic expansion lasts forever. I’m not saying Trump isn’t responsible at all, but as is the case with any president there are always factors and forces acting on the economy that are well beyond his control. The real danger I see is not Trump causing the recession, but rather his response to it once it starts to take shape, and that may already be happening as we speak. We’re getting mixed signals right now, with consumer spending and sentiment still relatively stable while market forces overseas are beginning to show downward momentum, which will impact us in time. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2019, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/35462 "2019-08-15T14:18:13Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > Great post, **JohnT**. You’ve raised the most important dangers of the Trump ‘presidency.’ We may never be able to fix the damage, and we’ve lost so much trust the rest of the world used to have in us. Really well said. > > Getting rid of Trump does not get rid of the dipshits or evil kakistocrats who supported him or more importantly, their agenda. Trump is just their useful idiot – as much as he is for Putin. It’s going to be a significant challenge to beat them back to under their slimy rocks. It’s worse than that. Even if we elect a democrat, to the outside world, there is going to be lingering doubt about the stability of our political system and there will be a lack of confidence in our ability to elect competent leadership. American democracy is in full-on crisis stage, and everyone sees that. If you’re a trading partner, you’re hedging your bets and doing whatever you can to spread your risk to other economies, wherever one can be found, even if it’s China. A related problem is that our current administration’s embrace of right wing, authoritarian, and disruptor politics means we are less likely to influence and help other Democratic partners stem the rising tide of right wing authoritarianism in their countries. Right wing extremist politics isn’t just a problem here; it’s a growing problem in England, in France, in Germany – even in Sweden, FFS. > [@Aspenglow](#): > > And fuck knows how long it’s going to take to rebuild our institutions – State, Energy, Labor, EPA, Housing, etc., etc. – plus the judiciary, FBI and other national security agencies. The vast amount of institutional knowledge lost across the board should make every American sink to their knees, hang their head and cry. It will take _decades_ to recover that. The worst damage will be aspiring civil servants coming to the conclusion that the federal government isn’t a reliable employer…which is what right wing extremists want. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2019, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/35463 "2019-08-15T14:30:21Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > It’s worse than that. Even if we elect a democrat, to the outside world, there is going to be lingering doubt about the stability of our political system and there will be a lack of confidence in our ability to elect competent leadership. American democracy is in full-on crisis stage, and everyone sees that. If you’re a trading partner, you’re hedging your bets and doing whatever you can to spread your risk to other economies, wherever one can be found, even if it’s China. > > … I don’t see any Democratic candidates who are capable of inspiring the kind of confidence that will be needed to regain the respect of the world community. When Nixon resigned and Gerald Ford took over, the country breathed a collective sigh of relief that an honest man was in the White House. Ford may not have been the brightest bulb in the box or a Great Leader… BUT back then the rest of the government was still functioning. Whoever takes over from Donald will have a task similar to the person who goes into the china shop after the bull is done with it. Or someone who surveys a town after a tornado has gone through and destroyed, damaged, or upended just about everything. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2019, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/35464 "2019-08-15T14:42:14Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > I don’t see any Democratic candidates who are capable of inspiring the kind of confidence that will be needed to regain the respect of the world community. > > When Nixon resigned and Gerald Ford took over, the country breathed a collective sigh of relief that an honest man was in the White House. Ford may not have been the brightest bulb in the box or a Great Leader… BUT back then the rest of the government was still functioning. Whoever takes over from Donald will have a task similar to the person who goes into the china shop after the bull is done with it. Or someone who surveys a town after a tornado has gone through and destroyed, damaged, or upended just about everything. We could elect Jesus Christ and it wouldn’t matter, because the lack of confidence isn’t rooted in the failure of a qualified candidate to appear; it’s rooted in a lack of confidence in the American people themselves. Everyone else around the world knew that there was something seriously wrong with American democracy when Donald Trump won the Republican nomination - and then he went on to defeat a decorated career public servant in Hillary Clinton! And the failure of Hillary Clinton is just as much a part of this story as the success of a total jackass like Donald Trump. Because what we learned from 2016 is that a good, qualified candidate can be politically poisoned by conspiracy theories. And once you let that realization sink in, you realize…we’re fucked. We’re fucked because, generally, American people no longer value democracy in the way that our parents and grandparents did. The rest of the world sees that. Some parts of the world are beginning to mimic our behavior, too [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=1772) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=1774)