# The Trump Administration: A Clusterfuck in the Making **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 7, 2016, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070 "2016-12-07T00:25:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1774
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2019, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/35465 "2019-08-15T14:58:54Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > We could elect Jesus Christ and it wouldn’t matter, because the lack of confidence isn’t rooted in the failure of a qualified candidate to appear; it’s rooted in a lack of confidence in the American people themselves. Everyone else around the world knew that there was something seriously wrong with American democracy when Donald Trump won the Republican nomination - and then he went on to defeat a decorated career public servant in Hillary Clinton! > > And the failure of Hillary Clinton is just as much a part of this story as the success of a total jackass like Donald Trump. Because what we learned from 2016 is that a good, qualified candidate can be politically poisoned by conspiracy theories. And once you let that realization sink in, you realize…we’re fucked. We’re fucked because, generally, American people no longer value democracy in the way that our parents and grandparents did. The rest of the world sees that. Some parts of the world are beginning to mimic our behavior, too The issue is deeper than that. The issue isn’t the American people or the American electorate. The issue is democracy. The average person has an IQ of 100. You need to win the votes of a large number of people and to do that you need to resonate with them. You think an Alexander Hamilton would resonate with the electorate of today? ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2019, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/35466 "2019-08-15T15:02:45Z")
When was Alexander Hamilton ever elected to anything? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2019, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/35467 "2019-08-15T15:08:15Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > When was Alexander Hamilton ever elected to anything? > > 😕 Never said he was. I’m just saying that the political writing and communication of folks like Madison, Jefferson, Hamilton etc isn’t going to be as effective today as it was back in the day due to the changing electorate. Merely being 18 years of age and a US citizen doesn’t make one an expert on what one is voting for. Needing to pander to the population as a whole is problematic. ETA. It might actually be more related to the mass media such as TV and radio making communication with the electorate more accessible being the issue more so than the electorate. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2019, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/35468 "2019-08-15T15:13:06Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > When was Alexander Hamilton ever elected to anything? > > 😕 1782 and 1788. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2019, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/35469 "2019-08-15T15:29:12Z")
Joe Biden was Obama’s vice president. Perhaps that will instill some confidence. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2019, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/35470 "2019-08-15T15:30:45Z")
In _this_ country. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2019, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/35471 "2019-08-15T16:11:05Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > I’m wondering if I should cash out my 401ks. (Not withdraw the balances; just convert them to cash.) The problem is identifying when you need to sell and then buy again. The vast majority of people lose money by trying to time the market - you should just take the strategy of riding out the ups and downs, and not even try to play poker with the people who know much more than you do. There are lots of people who sold right after the market went down in 2008-2009, and then missed the recovery that happened immediately after it. That’s the danger, missing the upswing. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2019, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/35472 "2019-08-15T16:24:32Z")
\*\*(CNN) — \*\*Israel announced Thursday it was barring the entry of [two US congresswomen after Donald Trump encouraged the move](https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/07/22/politics/trump-rashida-tlaib-squad/index.html), a remarkable step both by the[US President and his ally, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu](https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/06/17/politics/trump-heights-golan-settlement-us-israel-scli-intl/index.html), to punish political opponents. > **[Israel bars Democratic congresswomen from entering country | CNN Politics](https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/08/15/politics/israel-visit-ilhan-omar-rashida-tlaib-intl/index.html?r=https%3A%2F%2Fnews.google.com&rm=1)** > > Israel announced Thursday it was barring the entry of two Democratic US congresswomen after Donald Trump encouraged the move, a remarkable step both by the US President and his ally, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, to punish political... Cool. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2019, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/35473 "2019-08-15T16:38:55Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > The problem is identifying when you need to sell and then buy again. The vast majority of people lose money by trying to time the market - you should just take the strategy of riding out the ups and downs, and not even try to play poker with the people who know much more than you do. > > There are lots of people who sold right after the market went down in 2008-2009, and then missed the recovery that happened immediately after it. That’s the danger, missing the upswing. Trump can and does create these swings with a simple tweet. Don’t know who’s telling him to do it, but they are certainly raking it in. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2019, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/35474 "2019-08-15T17:03:04Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > \*\*(CNN) — \*\*Israel announced Thursday it was barring the entry of [two US congresswomen after Donald Trump encouraged the move](https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/07/22/politics/trump-rashida-tlaib-squad/index.html), a remarkable step both by the[US President and his ally, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu](https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/06/17/politics/trump-heights-golan-settlement-us-israel-scli-intl/index.html), to punish political opponents. > > [https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/08/15/politics/israel-visit-ilhan-omar-rashida-tlaib-intl/index.html?r=https%3A%2F%2Fnews.google.com&rm=1](https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/08/15/politics/israel-visit-ilhan-omar-rashida-tlaib-intl/index.html?r=https%3A%2F%2Fnews.google.com&rm=1) > > Cool. Did they really want to go in the first place? I don’t know, talking about supporting a boycott of a country seems like a pretty good way to get blacklisted, particularly when we’re talking about a country whose population had grandparents who lived through a much more sinister boycott. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2019, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/35475 "2019-08-15T17:08:49Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > we’re talking about a country whose population had grandparents who lived through a much more sinister boycott. Nicely phrased. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2019, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/35476 "2019-08-15T17:47:33Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Did they really want to go in the first place? They wanted to go to Jerusalem and the Palestinian territories on a tour organized by a Palestinian-rights organization. The only way to access those places is to get permission from Israel. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2019, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/35477 "2019-08-15T17:58:13Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Never said he was. I’m just saying that the political writing and communication of folks like Madison, Jefferson, Hamilton etc isn’t going to be as effective today as it was back in the day due to the changing electorate. Simply due to changes in communication; even before the arrival of grammarly, half the stuff those guys wrote would have been considered a “run-on sentence”. And OMG, they sometimes used the passive voice! And their subordinate clauses had subordinate clauses! ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2019, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/35478 "2019-08-15T17:59:28Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > They wanted to go to Jerusalem and the Palestinian territories on a tour organized by a Palestinian-rights organization. The only way to access those places is to get permission from Israel. I would think if Israel has nothing to hide it might be a good idea to engage Members of Congress in a dialog. “You can’t come here,” is not going to foster mutual respect and understanding. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2019, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/35479 "2019-08-15T18:15:21Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > I would think if Israel has nothing to hide it might be a good idea to engage Members of Congress in a dialog. “You can’t come here,” is not going to foster mutual respect and understanding. Mutual respect is not one of Bibi’s (or Trump’s) values. That being said, even with someone less polarizing than Netanyahu, I can’t think of too many things guaranteed to piss off a mostly Jewish population than threatening to participate in political boycotts against them. They shouldn’t have expected a welcome mat. They can bash Israel policy all they want, but that’s probably crossing a line. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2019, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/35480 "2019-08-15T18:20:27Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > I would think if Israel has nothing to hide it might be a good idea to engage Members of Congress in a dialog. “You can’t come here,” is not going to foster mutual respect and understanding. I can see why Israel wouldn’t want to make high-profile pro-Palestinian-rights BDS supporters welcome in official diplomatic visits to Israel itself (and also why pro-Palestinian-rights BDS supporters wouldn’t want to participate in such official diplomatic visits anyway). But to bar them from visiting Palestinian areas under the aegis of a Palestinian organization comes across as petty and repressive. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2019, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/35481 "2019-08-15T18:26:37Z")
Seems like a blatant and cynical (and probably harmful to Israel’s long-term relationship with the US) play from Netanyahu for far-right votes in his next election. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2019, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/35482 "2019-08-15T18:31:54Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > They shouldn’t have expected a welcome mat. As I said, though, they weren’t asking for any kind of “welcome mat” as visitors to **Israel** or as participants in US-Israel diplomacy. They were requesting permission to visit non-Israeli Palestinians under the guidance of a non-Israeli Palestinian organization in territory that Israel insists on its right to occupy and control, although its treatment of the non-Israelis who live there is very controversial. That’s what makes Israel’s ban come across as rather high-handed and authoritarian. Saying _“If you advocate boycotting us then we will not welcome you as part of a political delegation to our nation”_ is only reasonable. But saying _“If you advocate boycotting us then we won’t allow you to visit the non-citizen population that we insist on controlling and denying sovereignty or citizenship to, which is why so many people advocate boycotting us in the first place”_ has a kind of dictatorshippy vibe to it. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2019, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/35483 "2019-08-15T18:32:14Z")
Oh, don’t sound so surprised. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2019, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/35484 "2019-08-15T18:36:10Z")
Back-to-back headlines: Nadler subpoenas Lewandowski Trump endorses Lewandowski for Senate Nope, no obstruction of justice here! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=1773) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=1775)