# The Trump Administration: A Clusterfuck in the Making **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 7, 2016, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070 "2016-12-07T00:25:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1800
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2019, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/35985 "2019-08-28T16:44:20Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Trump, not the helicopter. Yeah, the Q&As are on the ground, not while he’s up in the helicopter…yet. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2019, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/35986 "2019-08-28T23:13:08Z")
The Administration is planning on not allowing the children of US military and US employees born overseas automatic citizenship. [https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/policymanual/updates/20190828-ResidenceForCitizenship.pdf](https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/policymanual/updates/20190828-ResidenceForCitizenship.pdf)? ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2019, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/35987 "2019-08-28T23:25:46Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > The Administration is planning on not allowing the children of US military and US employees born overseas automatic citizenship. > [https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/policymanual/updates/20190828-ResidenceForCitizenship.pdf](https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/policymanual/updates/20190828-ResidenceForCitizenship.pdf)? I didn’t want Trump to have the military vote, either. Glad to see him throw it away. (I doubt this policy will last 10 minutes for that reason, though.) ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2019, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/35988 "2019-08-28T23:37:59Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > The Administration is planning on not allowing the children of US military and US employees born overseas automatic citizenship. > [https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/policymanual/updates/20190828-ResidenceForCitizenship.pdf](https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/policymanual/updates/20190828-ResidenceForCitizenship.pdf)? It’s obviously a retroactive fuck-you to Senator McCain, who was born in the Panama Canal Zone when his father was stationed there. If this policy had been in place back then, McCain might not have been eligible for the presidency. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2019, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/35989 "2019-08-28T23:57:18Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > It’s obviously a retroactive fuck-you to Senator McCain, who was born in the Panama Canal Zone when his father was stationed there. If this policy had been in place back then, McCain might not have been eligible for the presidency. I wonder what Canadian Ted Cruz has to say about it. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2019, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/35990 "2019-08-29T00:12:52Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > The Administration is planning on not allowing the children of US military and US employees born overseas automatic citizenship. > [https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/policymanual/updates/20190828-ResidenceForCitizenship.pdf](https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/policymanual/updates/20190828-ResidenceForCitizenship.pdf)? I mean, I don’t get what the upside is here for the administration. What’s their gameplan with this nonsense? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2019, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/35991 "2019-08-29T00:20:29Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > It’s obviously a retroactive fuck-you to Senator McCain, who was born in the Panama Canal Zone when his father was stationed there. If this policy had been in place back then, McCain might not have been eligible for the presidency. Sure looks like another type of birtherism. I’m wondering how they can prove Hawaii isn’t legally a state so they can automatically get any law signed by Obama chucked out. > [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > I mean, I don’t get what the upside is here for the administration. What’s their gameplan with this nonsense? I’m thinking that since Obama didn’t retract it, they’re blaming him for it. Win, win! ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2019, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/35992 "2019-08-29T00:55:57Z")
Individual 1 wants WALL built by election day, even if it means breaking laws to do it. And if his aides break the law, he will pardon them. > **[‘Take the land’: President Trump wants a border wall. He wants it black. And...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/immigration/take-the-land-president-trump-wants-a-border-wall-he-wants-it-black-and-he-wants-it-by-election-day/2019/08/27/37b80018-c821-11e9-a4f3-c081a126de70_story.html)** > > The White House is making an all-out push to get hundreds of miles of border barriers built before November 2020, largely to fulfill Trump’s signature campaign promise. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2019, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/35993 "2019-08-29T01:01:10Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Individual 1 wants WALL built by election day, even if it means breaking laws to do it. And if his aides break the law, he will pardon them. > [https://www.washingtonpost.com/immigration/take-the-land-president-trump-wants-a-border-wall-he-wants-it-black-and-he-wants-it-by-election-day/2019/08/27/37b80018-c821-11e9-a4f3-c081a126de70\_story.html](https://www.washingtonpost.com/immigration/take-the-land-president-trump-wants-a-border-wall-he-wants-it-black-and-he-wants-it-by-election-day/2019/08/27/37b80018-c821-11e9-a4f3-c081a126de70_story.html) Note that it’s a clear violation of the Oath of Office as written in the United States Constitution to direct your subordinates to commit a crime. If provable, then it is an impeachable offense. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2019, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/35994 "2019-08-29T01:04:31Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > The Administration is planning on not allowing the children of US military and US employees born overseas automatic citizenship. > [https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/policymanual/updates/20190828-ResidenceForCitizenship.pdf](https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/policymanual/updates/20190828-ResidenceForCitizenship.pdf)? It looks to me as though [that assertion is not quite accurate](https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal/travel-legal-considerations/us-citizenship/Acquisition-US-Citizenship-Child-Born-Abroad.html). Reading through the pdf and the existing code (linked ibid) that it supposedly clarifies does not seem to show any change to cases like McCain, Cruz, _et al_. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2019, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/35995 "2019-08-29T01:07:28Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > If provable, then it is an impeachable offense. Oh, NOW we’ve got him! (Hollow laugh) ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2019, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/35996 "2019-08-29T01:24:18Z")
> [@Ukulele\_Ike](#): > > Oh, NOW we’ve got him! > > (Hollow laugh) One would hope that it merited at least a mention. Collusion or bust is not the actual definition of impeachability, despite what the media would have you believe. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2019, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/35997 "2019-08-29T01:35:07Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > The Administration is planning on not allowing the children of US military and US employees born overseas automatic citizenship. > [https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/policymanual/updates/20190828-ResidenceForCitizenship.pdf](https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/policymanual/updates/20190828-ResidenceForCitizenship.pdf)? > [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > It’s obviously a retroactive fuck-you to Senator McCain, who was born in the Panama Canal Zone when his father was stationed there. If this policy had been in place back then, McCain might not have been eligible for the presidency. It might well be that. It’s also speculated that getting rid of birth-right citizenship altogether is a goal of Stephen Miller and his ilk. This would be in the nature of a trial balloon. But it may be both those things—and _ **also** _ be intended to distract us from two very dangerous-to-Trump news stories: the incitement to crime for those helping Trump get the wall built, and the possibility that the names of Russian oligarchs (or their companies) appear on Trump loan documents as co-signers. The second story blew up last night on Lawrence O’Donnell’s MSNBC show.\* Trump threatened to sue. But Trump did not prove the story false by showing the loan documents. One would think that if Trump _could_ show up O’Donnell as a liar, he would greatly enjoy doing so. But he hasn’t done so. The first story has real potential to jumpstart a full impeachment (as opposed to the quiet set of hearings and lawsuits that _reference_ impeachment, which is underway now). That’s IF there’s reasonably-strong evidence that Trump did indeed tell underlings to break the law, with the promise that he’d pardon them. These stories have the potential to cause Trump massive problems. It’s not surprising that he’d rather people be talking about his plan to decimate the US military by killing off recruitment. _'Join today and your children may be denied citizenship!!!1!_’ After all, any serving member may be stationed overseas—it’s not their choice in most cases. So why join when this catastrophe might be your reward? (Did Vlad suggest this brilliant move to Donald? What a great way to further mutilate US power and prestige!) \*Very controversial as NBC hadn’t verified the story with a second source; all O’Donnell had was one source. Supposedly he’ll be talking about this/apologizing tonight. [https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/28/media/msnbc-lawrence-odonnell-deutsche-bank/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/28/media/msnbc-lawrence-odonnell-deutsche-bank/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2019, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/35998 "2019-08-29T01:50:11Z")
> [@Defensive\_Indifference](#): > > Yeah. I never really got into Don Rickles’s act, but I understood that he was joking, and the targets of his barbs were generally happy to be a part of the joke. I assume Rickles was a pleasant and engaging guy when he wasn’t doing his bit. [His best friend of about 50 years had this to say after he passed away in 2017](https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/don-rickles-dead-hollywood-pays-tribute-991739): > [@Bob & Ginnie Newhart](#): > > He was called ‘The Merchant of Venom,’ but in truth, he was one of the kindest, caring and most sensitive human beings we have ever known. We are devastated, and our world will never be the same. We were totally unprepared for this. There are other quotes at the link; he was very much loved and respected. > [@eschereal](#): > > Rickles, I suspect, may have had something like what plagues Lewis Black: he has to do the pissed-off act in order to suppress his stutter. Rickles may have been shy or repressed, resorting to his stage persona in order to be able to perform. Nah. The guy was a pro and a comedic genius. He was never pissed off and never acted pissed off; his whole act was just pissing _on_. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2019, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/35999 "2019-08-29T01:57:14Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > It looks to me as though [that assertion is not quite accurate](https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal/travel-legal-considerations/us-citizenship/Acquisition-US-Citizenship-Child-Born-Abroad.html). Reading through the pdf and the existing code (linked ibid) that it supposedly clarifies does not seem to show any change to cases like McCain, Cruz, _et al_. I perused the thing but evidently I’ve been out of the business of understanding bureacratese too long. What implications does this have on those immigrants who joined the Armed Forces and were promised that their time in the service–regardless of where they are posted–counts towards getting naturalized? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2019, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/36000 "2019-08-29T02:13:05Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > I mean, I don’t get what the upside is here for the administration. What’s their gameplan with this nonsense? As others have said, this is a personal slap in the face to a couple of perceived enemies. Trump isn’t thinking about all of the people who will actually be affected by this - because none of them have any importance in Donald Trump’s life so they don’t matter. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2019, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/36001 "2019-08-29T03:49:30Z")
Trump still [doesn’t understand the difference](https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1166012606542430208) between England and the United Kingdom. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2019, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/36002 "2019-08-29T03:57:14Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > It’s obviously a retroactive fuck-you to Senator McCain, who was born in the Panama Canal Zone when his father was stationed there. If this policy had been in place back then, McCain might not have been eligible for the presidency. So? It’s not like he got it… ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2019, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/36003 "2019-08-29T04:04:04Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > It might well be that. It’s also speculated that getting rid of birth-right citizenship altogether is a goal of Stephen Miller and his ilk. This would be in the nature of a trial balloon. 😕 I thought his version of a “trial balloon” was something that his press secretary would later claim was a “joke…” ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2019, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/36004 "2019-08-29T04:14:02Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > But it may be both those things—and _ **also** _ be intended to distract us from two very dangerous-to-Trump news stories: the incitement to crime for those helping Trump get the wall built, and the possibility that the names of Russian oligarchs (or their companies) appear on Trump loan documents as co-signers. > > The second story blew up last night on Lawrence O’Donnell’s MSNBC show.\* Trump threatened to sue. But Trump did not prove the story false by showing the loan documents. One would think that if Trump _could_ show up O’Donnell as a liar, he would greatly enjoy doing so. > > But he hasn’t done so. If he can’t win on facts, he can at least make the other guy bear the expense of lawyering up. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=1799) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=1801)