# The Trump Administration: A Clusterfuck in the Making **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 7, 2016, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070 "2016-12-07T00:25:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1845
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2019, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/36885 "2019-09-24T16:04:44Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > How about a Noble [sic]We could award it to him at the Potemkin wall I proposed a few months ago-- the one only a mile long he’ll be taken to to show him it’s been done. I recommend a small change to your wall. Make it circular, a mile in diameter. Take him in and show that it no one can get around the ends - then leave him there. Yeah, it will be 3.14x more money but only the best will do… ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2019, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/36886 "2019-09-24T16:29:48Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > No, it will make no difference at all. > > There could be an unambiguous video recording, (complete with notarized statements of authenticity from 6 respected witnesses) of Trump threatening Zelensky and saying “You won’t get a damned penny of aid until you manage to cook something up to get Biden! I don’t care what you have to do, or who you have to pay off! Just do it!” > > Even that would not shift the needle. Trump is a crime boss. Republicans know it. They like it. They approve of it. I see two problems that will keep Ukraine from gaining any traction: First: is that it’s kind of an academic issue. Basically, Trump used public funds for campaign-related activities (extorting opposition research from the government of Ukraine). So it’s an accounting scandal (and also pissing all over the Constitution, of course.) But it doesn’t grab the public at an emotional level. Second: and this is larger and broader and covers everything that’s wrong with America…people who only watch Fox News will never know. During Watergate, when everyone got their news from Uncle Walter and the NY Times, we worked from the same set of facts and only differed on our response to those facts. Now we’re divided into two alternate realities. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2019, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/36887 "2019-09-24T16:36:15Z")
> [@dasmoocher](#): > > Personally, I’d like to see Trump win a Darwin Award. Too late. ---
**Author:** ![HelenGawn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a88e4f/32.png) [@HelenGawn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HelenGawn)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2019, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/36888 "2019-09-24T16:48:51Z")
> [@Swampwolf](#): > > There is no bottom. Every new low is seen as a [challenge.](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trump-greta-thunberg-climate-change-sarcasm_n_5d8a0f9de4b0938b59347e92) > > This individual makes me ashamed to be the same species as he is. [Greta’s rolling with it.](https://twitter.com/GretaThunberg) ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2019, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/36889 "2019-09-24T16:51:46Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > Second: and this is larger and broader and covers everything that’s wrong with America…people who only watch Fox News will never know. During Watergate, when everyone got their news from Uncle Walter and the NY Times, we worked from the same set of facts and only differed on our response to those facts. Now we’re divided into two alternate realities. This. Is. A. Huge. Problem. We’re dealing with a set of people who think it is perfectly reasonable to state that they believe in a set of “alternative facts”. After Conway dropped this turd in the punchbowl, she should have never been able to show her face on any television show ever again. Yet here she is, still spouting off bullshit, and being the spokesperson for the party. It’s insane. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2019, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/36890 "2019-09-24T16:52:25Z")
> [@jasg](#): > > I recommend a small change to your wall. > > Make it circular, a mile in diameter. Take him in and show that it no one can get around the ends - then leave him there. > > Yeah, it will be 3.14x more money but only the best will do… As for my take on a recommendation, I have seen this [Modest Proposal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Modest_Proposal) (with props to Swift and the movie _[300](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/300_(film))_: **A Modest Proposal For preventing the Immigrants From being a Burthen to This Country, and For making them Beneficial to the Publick** The Country shall take the Immigrants that are in the Detention Centers and Euthanize Them All. The Bodies can be Used as the Construction Material for The Border Wall. Adults being the Primary Bricks and the Children used to fill in Gaps. As Mortar, Our Great President Trump’s [del]Rhetoric[/del] [Bullshit] Shall Be Used. There is Enough of This Material to Cement A Wall from Sea to Shining Sea. The Remaining Amount could Either be Placed on Top of The Wall like Icing as a Further Deterrent or Placed at the Mexico-facing Base or Both, as there is likely so much [del]Rhetoric[/del] [Bullshit] that It May Be Feasible to Do Both. Of Course, only Brown and Black Immigrants should be Used as They would Absorb More Heat from the Sun and Make the Wall Too Hot to Climb. New Immigrants will Provide Material for the Maintainance of The Wall. Humbly Yours, The Honorable Stephen Miller ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2019, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/36891 "2019-09-24T16:53:52Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Too late. Technically true, but Trump considers himself exceptional, so maybe a little indulgence. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2019, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/36892 "2019-09-24T16:56:28Z")
> [@dasmoocher](#): > > Personally, I’d like to see Trump win a Darwin Award. Too late, he’s already reproduced. ---
**Author:** ![SingleMalt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/singlemalt/32/3961_2.png) [@SingleMalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SingleMalt)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2019, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/36893 "2019-09-24T16:58:29Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > I see two problems that will keep Ukraine from gaining any traction: > > First: is that it’s kind of an academic issue. Basically, Trump used public funds for campaign-related activities (extorting opposition research from the government of Ukraine). So it’s an accounting scandal (and also pissing all over the Constitution, of course.) But it doesn’t grab the public at an emotional level. > > Second: and this is larger and broader and covers everything that’s wrong with America…people who only watch Fox News will never know. During Watergate, when everyone got their news from Uncle Walter and the NY Times, we worked from the same set of facts and only differed on our response to those facts. Now we’re divided into two alternate realities. I don’t know that the Ukraine scandal will be seen as largely academic. In fact, it’s benefiting from its rather simple narrative: The President of the United States extorted the head of a sovereign state by withholding Congressionally-allocated taxpayer funds to force that state to generate compromising evidence against a political opponent. The narrative is simple, the ethical problem is obvious, and non-wonks can follow it. Sure, the solid evidence needs to be gathered, but the blatancy of the act is already shifting positions on impeachment. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2019, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/36894 "2019-09-24T17:04:47Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Too late, he’s already reproduced. See above, but maybe there should be a version for people who, if not for having children, would qualify. Remember the eclipse a few years ago? The first thing Trump did after walking outside was to look at the sun without eye protection. I think it might have been on this board where someone suggested Trump could check to see if his handgun is loaded by looking down the barrel. And maybe a sneeze comes on… ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2019, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/36895 "2019-09-24T17:23:45Z")
> [@SingleMalt](#): > > I don’t know that the Ukraine scandal will be seen as largely academic. In fact, it’s benefiting from its rather simple narrative: > > The President of the United States extorted the head of a sovereign state by withholding Congressionally-allocated taxpayer funds to force that state to generate compromising evidence against a political opponent. > > The narrative is simple, the ethical problem is obvious, and non-wonks can follow it. Sure, the solid evidence needs to be gathered, but the blatancy of the act is already shifting positions on impeachment. “Academic” might not be the right word. It might be simple to follow, but it’s easy for people to stick their head in the sand and ignore it. I was talking to a coworker a few months ago about the Republican tax cuts. This is a guy who fashions himself a libertarian/conservative. I told him I thought the tax cuts were a bad idea because it was saddling our children with an extra trillion dollars a year in federal deficits that they’d eventually have to figure out how to pay back, and he literally told me “I don’t care as long as my taxes go down.” It’s not that deficits are “academic” for him, it’s that he’s happy to ignore reality. He will vote for Trump in 2020. Likewise, “I don’t care if Trump is using the Ukrainian government to go after a political opponent while thumbing his nose at congress as long as my taxes go down” will play well to the Fox News crowd. No, if this ends up in an impeachment it won’t be because of popular outcry, it will be because congress on their own finally decides to give a shit about the constitution. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2019, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/36896 "2019-09-24T17:31:31Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > …Likewise, “I don’t care if Trump is using the Ukrainian government to go after a political opponent while thumbing his nose at congress as long as my taxes go down” will play well to the Fox News crowd. No, if this ends up in an impeachment it won’t be because of popular outcry, it will be because congress on their own finally decides to give a shit about the constitution. Shit, there are people that are happy Russia interfered in the election. All the while Trump cozied up to them. Trump supporters will see Trump trying to extort the Ukraine into getting dirt on Biden as ‘good persidenten’. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2019, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/36897 "2019-09-24T17:36:00Z")
> [@SingleMalt](#): > > I don’t know that the Ukraine scandal will be seen as largely academic. In fact, it’s benefiting from its rather simple narrative: > > The President of the United States extorted the head of a sovereign state by withholding Congressionally-allocated taxpayer funds to force that state to generate compromising evidence against a political opponent. > > The narrative is simple, the ethical problem is obvious, and non-wonks can follow it. Sure, the solid evidence needs to be gathered, but the blatancy of the act is already shifting positions on impeachment. Just what I was thinking. One sentence. Straightforward. Of course, the Republicans will try to Obfuscate and throw mud… but just keep repeating: The President of the United States extorted the head of a sovereign state by withholding Congressionally-allocated taxpayer funds to force that state to generate compromising evidence against a political opponent. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2019, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/36898 "2019-09-24T17:39:45Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Just what I was thinking. One sentence. Straightforward. Of course, the Republicans will try to Obfuscate and throw mud… but just keep repeating: > > The President of the United States extorted the head of a sovereign state by withholding Congressionally-allocated taxpayer funds to force that state to generate compromising evidence against a political opponent. To which I would only add, “… for his personal gain and against the national security interests of the USA.” ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2019, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/36899 "2019-09-24T17:42:01Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > People support Trump because they are monsters. They want to hurt as many people as possible, as much as possible, as often as possible; and they support Trump because that’s exactly what he gives them. They aren’t going to stop supporting him for doing awful things, because awful things are exactly what they want out of him. He could rape and murder people on nationwide television, and they’d just cheer him on. No, people who want to hurt as many people as possible and cheer on rapists and murderers are monsters. And thankfully these are very, very rare indeed. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2019, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/36900 "2019-09-24T17:44:35Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Nicely written, and of course I agree – the Orange Peril has been exceptionally innovative in all of those areas. Some of them have been publicly celebrated – _Last Week with John Oliver_ had a nice video clip demonstrating his clean coal initiative, showing a piece of coal being vigorously scrubbed with a kitchen dish brush. But to the Nobel Committee, this sort of genius means nothing (very unfair!). But even they would be unable to deny the obvious if they introduced a new award category: Achievement in Creating Alternate Facts (formerly known as “lying” but now elevated to an art form). Not aert form. Religion. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2019, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/36901 "2019-09-24T17:50:17Z")
> [@SingleMalt](#): > > The narrative is simple, the ethical problem is obvious, and non-wonks can follow it. Sure, the solid evidence needs to be gathered, but the blatancy of the act is already shifting positions on impeachment. I couldn’t agree more. In Elections, there is [this](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=882461) thread, which asks why the “Ukraine Thing” is a big deal. I made a similar argument there. The possible obstructions of justice in the Mueller report takes some looking into, and many are somewhat obscure or otherwise hard to get a handle on without some research. This one is straight and to the point: President Trump Attempts to Bribe Ukraine, Destroy Biden Candidacy. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2019, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/36902 "2019-09-24T17:52:48Z")
I’d like to propose a new Nobel category for high-profile philandering and whoremongering. Finally, a prize Trump could win! ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2019, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/36903 "2019-09-24T17:54:07Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > “Academic” might not be the right word. It might be simple to follow, but it’s easy for people to stick their head in the sand and ignore it. Well sure, but anything can be ignored. Seems to me more detailed accusations, say of obstruction, are easier to ignore because they take an effort to understand in full. Why _can’t_ the president just fire someone in his administration? He picked him in the first place. And so on. Bribery does not take the same effort. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2019, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/36904 "2019-09-24T18:11:12Z")
Reports are that Pelosi will be convening the Democratic caucus this afternoon to discuss impeachment. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=1844) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=1846)