# The Trump Administration: A Clusterfuck in the Making **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 7, 2016, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070 "2016-12-07T00:25:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1870
**Author:** ![mjmlabs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mjmlabs/32/69_2.png) [@mjmlabs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mjmlabs)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2019, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/37385 "2019-10-04T11:24:25Z")
If 11K+ words is too much of a commitment, Jake Tapper runs down the high points in 3½ minutes here: [**George Conway rips Trump’s ‘narcissistic’ behavior in op-ed**](https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2019/10/03/george-conway-atlantic-oped-jake-tapper-lead-vpx.cnn/video/playlists/this-week-in-politics/) ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2019, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/37386 "2019-10-04T12:36:47Z")
> [@robby](#): > > Nevertheless, it’s an excellent (and chilling) read. > > Hopefully his wife will read it and take it to heart. I wonder what the pillow talk is in the Conway bedroom. I’d be willing to be that she admits that Donald is mad as a hatter and more corrupt than Al Capone but her job is to lie for him and she wants to keep it. I suspect that she lists “Turd Polisher” as her occupation on her tax return. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2019, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/37387 "2019-10-04T13:39:03Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Nah, Trump would never ever fall for a conspiracy theory. Not ever. He’s not just a stable genius, he’s a [super genius](https://youtu.be/STeVTzWelns?t=17). ---
**Author:** ![Skypist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skypist/32/169_2.png) [@Skypist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skypist)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2019, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/37388 "2019-10-04T14:30:52Z")
Turnip promised Xi Jinping that the US wouldn’t say anything about freedom in Hong Kong during trade talks. > **[Trump promised Xi US silence on Hong Kong democracy protests as trade talks...](https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/10/04/politics/trump-xi-hong-kong-protests/index.html?r=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cnn.com%2F)** > > During a private phone call in June, President Donald Trump promised Chinese President Xi Jinping that the US would remain quiet on pro-democracy protests in Hong Kong while trade talks continued, two sources familiar with the call tell CNN. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2019, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/37389 "2019-10-04T15:39:06Z")
> [@robby](#): > > Nevertheless, it’s an excellent (and chilling) read. > > Hopefully his wife will read it and take it to heart. There is absolutely nothing in there she doesn’t already know. She’s sold her soul and is acutely aware of it, happy about it even. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2019, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/37390 "2019-10-04T15:49:36Z")
> [@zoid](#): > > There is absolutely nothing in there she doesn’t already know. She’s sold her soul and is acutely aware of it, happy about it even. I sincerely doubt she’s happy about any of it. But maybe it’s just one of them things I tell myself to keep sane. Well, sane-ish. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2019, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/37391 "2019-10-04T16:31:10Z")
> [@Skypist](#): > > Turnip promised Xi Jinping that the US wouldn’t say anything about freedom in Hong Kong during trade talks. > [https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/10/04/politics/trump-xi-hong-kong-protests/index.html?r=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cnn.com%2F](https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/10/04/politics/trump-xi-hong-kong-protests/index.html?r=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cnn.com%2F) This sucks, but there’s no way it’s anything new. The American government has shown itself willing, on occasions almost too numerous to count, to ignore human rights violations in other countries. American politicians and diplomats have often refrained from speaking out about issues of freedom in other nations when doing so might harm economic or strategic partnerships and alliances. And this doesn’t even count the times when American security and intelligence operations have actively helped to overthrow democratically elected governments and install brutal dictatorships. I’ll bet that the type of promise Trump made to Xi has been made, in similar ways, by a bunch of presidents in the past. ---
**Author:** ![Skypist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skypist/32/169_2.png) [@Skypist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skypist)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2019, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/37392 "2019-10-04T16:54:32Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > This sucks, but there’s no way it’s anything new. > > The American government has shown itself willing, on occasions almost too numerous to count, to ignore human rights violations in other countries. American politicians and diplomats have often refrained from speaking out about issues of freedom in other nations when doing so might harm economic or strategic partnerships and alliances. And this doesn’t even count the times when American security and intelligence operations have actively helped to overthrow democratically elected governments and install brutal dictatorships. > > I’ll bet that the type of promise Trump made to Xi has been made, in similar ways, by a bunch of presidents in the past. Yeah, true, but this promise was put on the top secret server along with his Ukraine phone call. And specifically to help with his re-election since he knows if he gets a Chinese trade deal it will enhance him with his base. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2019, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/37393 "2019-10-04T17:13:03Z")
Random thought about Former President Trump’s\* practice of “doubling down” on things. He had the phone call with Ukraine. Does he deny it? No, instead he goes public with the same request of China. And no one stops him. No one can figure out how to stop him. This is how he has always operated and how he gets away with anything and everything. It occurs to me that if he did shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and there was any objection or even any \*comment \*from anyone, he’d just turn and shoot someone else immediately. Maybe two or three more out of sheer narcissistic, delusional denial that laws have anything to do with him. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2019, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/37394 "2019-10-04T18:11:02Z")
Kurt Volker, during his closed door meeting with Congressional committees, released a pack of text messages between US ambassadors about the Ukraine situation. Ambassador Bill Taylor, the former Ambassador to Ukraine and current charge d’affairs at the Kiev Embassy, who is a career diplomat, said, "I think it’s crazy to withhold security assistance for help with a political campaign.” Ambassador to the EU Gordon Sunderland, who is a millionaire Republican donor, said, “Bill, I believe you are incorrect about President Trump’s intentions. The President has been crystal clear: no quid pro quo’s of any kind. The President is trying to evaluate whether Ukraine is truly going to adopt the transparency and reforms that President Zelenskiy promised during his campaign.” He then suggested they stop using text to communicate. [https://abcnews.go.com/amp/Politics/top-diplomat-ukraine-crazy-withhold-security-sasistance-political/](https://abcnews.go.com/amp/Politics/top-diplomat-ukraine-crazy-withhold-security-sasistance-political/) * * * The State Department Inspector General’s “urgent” request for meetings with members of Congress involved a packet of documents that some unnamed people put together trying to tarnish former Ambassador to the Ukraine Marie Yovanovitch. [Watchdog reveals mysterious attempt to smear ex-U.S. ambassador to Ukraine - POLITICO](https://www.politico.com/amp/news/2019/10/02/state-department-inspector-general-ex-ukraine-ambassador-022482)? ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2019, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/37395 "2019-10-05T01:43:10Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Kurt Volker, during his closed door meeting with Congressional committees, released a pack of text messages between US ambassadors about the Ukraine situation. Ambassador Bill Taylor, the former Ambassador to Ukraine and current charge d’affairs at the Kiev Embassy, who is a career diplomat, said, "I think it’s crazy to withhold security assistance for help with a political campaign.” > > \*\*Ambassador to the EU Gordon Sunderland, who is a millionaire Republican donor, said, \*\*“Bill, I believe you are incorrect about President Trump’s intentions. The President has been crystal clear: no quid pro quo’s of any kind. The President is trying to evaluate whether Ukraine is truly going to adopt the transparency and reforms that President Zelenskiy promised during his campaign.” He then suggested they stop using text to communicate. > [https://abcnews.go.com/amp/Politics/top-diplomat-ukraine-crazy-withhold-security-sasistance-political/](https://abcnews.go.com/amp/Politics/top-diplomat-ukraine-crazy-withhold-security-sasistance-political/)… Sondland’s response came _ **four and a half hours later** _, it’s worth noting. > [@](#): > > [9/9/19, 12:47:11AM] Bill Taylor: As I said on the phone, I think it’s crazy to withhold security assistance for help with a political campaign. > > [9/9/19, 5:19:35AM] Gordon Sondland: Bill, I believe you are incorrect about President Trump’s intentions. The President has been crystal clear: no quid pro quo’s of any kind. The President is trying to evaluate whether Ukraine is truly going to adopt the transparency and reforms that President Zelenskypromised during his campaign. I suggest we stop the back and forth by text. If you still have concerns, Irecommend you give Lisa Kenna or S a call to discuss them directly. Thanks… > **['Crazy to withhold security assistance' to Ukraine for political campaign:...](https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/top-diplomat-ukraine-crazy-withhold-security-sasistance-political/story?id=66039011)** > > In newly disclosed text messages, the top U.S. diplomat to Ukraine writes to other American diplomats that "I think it's crazy" to withhold assistance for political gain. It would be interesting to know which White House (or State Department?) attorney drafted that response. (my emphasis in your quote) Seems to be “Sondland” not “Sunderland”: [Texts Detail Top Diplomat's Concerns About Possible Trump-Ukraine Quid Pro Quo : NPR](https://www.npr.org/2019/10/04/767080125/texts-show-top-u-s-diplomat-in-ukraine-concerned-over-possible-quid-pro-quo) ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2019, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/37396 "2019-10-05T04:05:35Z")
I think a subpoena of Sondland and Taylor is called for. Hopefully interviewing them in quick succession so that Sondland has to respond under oath before knowing what beans Taylor has spilled. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2019, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/37397 "2019-10-05T05:15:43Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > I think a subpoena of Sondland and Taylor is called for. Hopefully interviewing them in quick succession so that Sondland has to respond under oath before knowing what beans Taylor has spilled. _If you like subpoena coladas And getting caught in Ukraine…_ ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2019, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/37398 "2019-10-05T05:18:58Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > _If you like subpoena coladas > And getting caught in Ukraine…_ Ow. Got to forward that on to some friends. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2019, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/37399 "2019-10-05T15:25:24Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > _If you like subpoena coladas > And getting caught in Ukraine…_ > [@enipla](#): > > Ow. Got to forward that on to some friends. [Meme](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EGFprwKWkAAZwKs.jpg). ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2019, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/37400 "2019-10-05T17:51:13Z")
Individual 1 says his fight with the media (“and your partners the Democrats”) has caused the biggest surge in Christianity in history. [https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/trump-christian-revival-ukraine-scandal](https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/trump-christian-revival-ukraine-scandal) ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2019, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/37401 "2019-10-05T17:53:44Z")
Rudy says his mission is to disrupt the world. [Rudy Giuliani Declares His Mission Is 'To Disrupt The World' | HuffPost Latest News](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/rudy-giuliani-mission-to-disrupt-the-world-fox-news_n_5d9899a1e4b03b475f99dab7)? ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2019, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/37402 "2019-10-05T18:24:44Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Individual 1 says his fight with the media (“and your partners the Democrats”) has caused the biggest surge in Christianity in history. > [Trump Touts Christian Revival - TPM – Talking Points Memo](https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/trump-christian-revival-ukraine-scandal) The orange Messiah: > [@Donald Trump](#): > > “I got a call the other night from pastors, the biggest pastors, evangelical Christians — they said we have never seen our religion or any religion so electrified.” ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2019, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/37403 "2019-10-05T18:40:55Z")
Unfortunately that may very well be true. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2019, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/37404 "2019-10-05T19:07:24Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > The American government has shown itself willing, on occasions almost too numerous to count, to ignore human rights violations in other countries. I think it works like this: suppression of free speech and other human rights, torture and murder of political opponents, cyber attacks on the US… These things are par for the course, and we can look the other way and still do deals. But the alleged corruption of hunter biden… That. Can. Not. Stand. Not to help Trump’s reelection, mind. The wrongdoings of hunter – whatever they were, we’re not even sure what to accuse him of – eats at Trump’s bigly conscience. He had to take a moral stand. Sent from my Redmi 5A using Tapatalk [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=1869) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=1871)