# The Trump Administration: A Clusterfuck in the Making **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 7, 2016, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070 "2016-12-07T00:25:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1885
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2019, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/37685 "2019-10-12T03:09:49Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Well, I’m not a lawyer, but I’m sure if I went to country X, that the US doesn’t have an extradition treaty with, and killed people while live-streaming it, and then came back to the US, I would be arrested and tried for murder. > > If not, that seems like a mighty big loophole. No; you’d possibly be arrested here because of an extradition treaty or some such, but you wouldn’t be tried and convicted and imprisoned here. Because the crime wasn’t committed here and wasn’t committed against an American. So if Hunter Biden embezzled money from a Ukranian company, that’s the Ukranian company and the Ukranian police’s affair. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2019, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/37686 "2019-10-12T03:17:30Z")
This is a bit of a hijack, and I’m not an expert at all, so I’ll just make one last post on the issue. I can’t think of a case where an American committed a crime in another country, then came here to avoid prosecution, but it certainly happens in the opposite direction. Roman Polanski and Edward Snowden are examples of people who fled US prosecution. I don’t know offhand of examples of murderers fleeing US jurisdiction, but I imagine it happens, as long as the person flees somewhere without an extradition treaty. Americans who commit crimes overseas then come back here? I don’t see why it couldn’t happen; I just don’t know of examples off the top of my head. ETA: On the topic of prostitution, don’t lots of Americans go to Thailand as “sex tourists” even though prostitution is technically illegal there too? And isnt Thailand noted for the availability of young sex workers? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2019, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/37687 "2019-10-12T04:21:34Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Well, I’m not a lawyer, but I’m sure if I went to country X, that the US doesn’t have an extradition treaty with, and killed people while live-streaming it, and then came back to the US, I would be arrested and tried for murder. You really are quite remarkably ignorant. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2019, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/37688 "2019-10-12T04:36:17Z")
> [@Defensive\_Indifference](#): > > This is a bit of a hijack, and I’m not an expert at all, so I’ll just make one last post on the issue… Okay, people. You read it there! That was the last post on “Can’t we please jail someone who broke laws overseas, like maybe the Bidens?” So back on topic. We must have a few more Trump clusters to fuck… How about his rally in Louisiana where he had this brilliant reason for the impeachment inquiry: “Nancy Pelosi hates the United States of America, or she wouldn’t be doing this!” ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2019, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/37689 "2019-10-12T12:59:26Z")
Projecting much, Mr. President? ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2019, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/37690 "2019-10-12T13:06:14Z")
> [@digs](#): > > Okay, people. You read it there! That was the last post on "Can’t we please jail someone who broke laws overseas, like maybe the Bidens?” Huh? I just meant I was dropping out of that discussion. You want to keep discussing it, have at it. I’m not a mod. But, out of curiosity, do you think I’m advocating jailing anyone for committing crimes overseas? I’m saying quite the opposite, and I was just trying to convince **manson1972** that we don’t do it currently. So, what’s with the snark? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2019, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/37691 "2019-10-12T14:04:13Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Murdering people overseas and then fleeing the jurisdiction is a big loophole that people routinely take advantage of? Guess I learned something new today. I wouldn’t say it’s routine, but how exactly would the US go about investigating, prosecuting and convicting someone who committed a murder overseas of a non-US national if the country itself hadn’t brought any charges? Send a team of detectives over there? US jurisdiction would come into play mostly in the case of the _victim_ being a US citizen. > [@](#): > > What about prostitution? Seems like there are laws against a US citizen having sex with prostitutes under the age of 18 in foreign countries. This is an exception. It is one of the few cases in which US law criminalizes acts that may not be against the law in the country where it takes place (since the age of consent may be lower in other countries; in Thailand it is 15.) > [@](#): > > Or tax evasion? If I go to a foreign country and don’t file the proper forms or pay the right taxes, I can’t be prosecuted in the US? It just seems strange to me. Unlike most countries, US citizens are required to pay taxes to the US regardless of where they reside. Again, this is an exception. You can’t be prosecuted for not paying taxes to the country in which you reside. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2019, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/37692 "2019-10-12T14:16:14Z")
> [@Defensive\_Indifference](#): > > ETA: On the topic of prostitution, don’t lots of Americans go to Thailand as “sex tourists” even though prostitution is technically illegal there too? And isnt Thailand noted for the availability of young sex workers? It is not illegal for US citizens to engage in prostitution in countries even where it is illegal. What is illegal is to travel to a foreign country for the purpose of engaging in sex with minors, defined as being under 18 years old. This law was passed specifically to deal with cases like Thailand where underage sex (per US law) is common. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2019, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/37693 "2019-10-12T14:31:50Z")
> [@Defensive\_Indifference](#): > > Huh? I just meant I was dropping out of that discussion. You want to keep discussing it, have at it. I’m not a mod. And I was applauding you for not beating a dead horse. If I was snarkin’, it was at others who were hijacking the thread to make it about “Just asking” why the Bidens aren’t beiong charged and locked up, and I was happy to hear “last post on the subject” … and hoped others would follow suit. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2019, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/37694 "2019-10-12T14:33:58Z")
[Here’s more](https://www.fmamlaw.com/blog/2017/08/when-can-the-us-government-prosecute-someone-for-acts-abroad.shtml) on when the US can prosecute a US citizen for acts committed overseas. > [@](#): > > When determining whether extraterritorial jurisdiction applies, federal courts must examine the following: > > First, has Congress expressly stated that a law applies outside the United States? If so, extraterritorial jurisdiction is appropriate, assuming the statute in question does not violate due process or other Constitutional protections. > > Second, even if Congress has not expressly stated that a law has extraterritorial applications, American laws may still apply to conduct that occurred overseas if some conduct relevant to the statute’s focus took place in the United States. With respect to murder, US jurisdiction may apply in the following case: > [@](#): > > Killing a foreign national abroad with the intent of facilitating a domestic criminal enterprise This implies that a murder in other circumstances would not come under US jurisdiction. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2019, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/37695 "2019-10-12T15:01:24Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > This is an exception. It is one of the few cases in which US law criminalizes acts that may not be against the law in the country where it takes place (since the age of consent may be lower in other countries; in Thailand it is 15.) Its also illegal for businesses to bribe foreigners, although [Trump wants to do away with that](https://www.businessinsider.com/). Of course we all know that fighting corruption is what Trump is all about. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2019, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/37696 "2019-10-12T15:18:02Z")
> [@digs](#): > > And I was applauding you for not beating a dead horse. If I was snarkin’, it was at others who were hijacking the thread to make it about “Just asking” why the Bidens aren’t beiong charged and locked up, and I was happy to hear “last post on the subject” … and hoped others would follow suit. Sorry if you think it’s a hijack, but the discussion is relevant to not just the Bidens but to Guiliani and his team, who may well have committed illegal acts while overseas. (One might say, in the furtherance of a US-based criminal enterprise.;)) ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2019, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/37697 "2019-10-12T17:57:48Z")
> [@digs](#): > > And I was applauding you for not beating a dead horse. If I was snarkin’, it was at others who were hijacking the thread to make it about “Just asking” why the Bidens aren’t beiong charged and locked up, and I was happy to hear “last post on the subject” … and hoped others would follow suit. Ah. Sorry for getting defensive then. Thanks! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2019, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/37698 "2019-10-12T19:03:08Z")
Trump renews claim that he is immune from criminal investigation in effort to block Manhattan DA probe > **[Trump renews claim that he is immune from criminal investigation in effort to...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-renews-claim-that-he-is-immune-from-criminal-investigation-in-effort-to-block-manhattan-da-probe/2019/10/11/e7d0df28-ec5d-11e9-9c6d-436a0df4f31d_story.html)** > > The Justice Department filed a brief in support of the president, though it stopped short of endorsing his precedent-breaking assertion that he has absolute immunity. > [@](#): > > President Trump on Friday repeated his assertion of sweeping executive immunity — arguing in court that, because he is president, he cannot be investigated by any prosecutor, anywhere. > … All-rightly! The Word from the Mountaintop! ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_Mabes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mike_mabes/32/1782_2.png) [@Mike\_Mabes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mike_Mabes)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2019, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/37699 "2019-10-12T19:23:22Z")
Was reading a few tweets on Trump’s page from Trumpers thanking him for his wisdom in withdrawing troops in Syria. “We can’t keep fighting these endless wars!” These are the same people who supported the Iraq war from the beginning and hated Obama for removing troops from Iraq, and these people are now applauding Trump for sending additional troops into Saudi Arabia. “Gotta fight them over there or fight them over here!” Make up your fucking “minds” motherfuckers! But a serious question. Why the hell are we sending troops to Saudi Arabia? Do they have an army of any consequence? They sure as hell have a lot of weapons we sold them. Maybe the question can be answered in one word - “oil.” Is there some sort of implied, or direct quid pro quo , if we don’t help them they will, what, take oil off the market? Raise prices? Reminds me of something. There were pictures years ago of Dubya walking hand in hand with, I think it was the Crown Prince. I’ll put this at number 17 on the list of things that, if Obama had done them, Republicans would be burning down the White House. ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_Mabes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mike_mabes/32/1782_2.png) [@Mike\_Mabes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mike_Mabes)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2019, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/37700 "2019-10-12T19:25:47Z")
Just saw a clip of Trump - “I haven’t spoken to Rudy. I spoke to him yesterday.” Make up your fucking “mind”, motherfucker! And another - “Is Smith leaving FOX because of bad ratings? He has bad ratings.” Fact check - he had good ratings ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2019, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/37701 "2019-10-12T19:30:24Z")
Boy, that Kellyanne Conway sure has been quiet recently, huh? Or is it just me? ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2019, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/37702 "2019-10-12T19:32:26Z")
> [@Mike\_Mabes](#): > > Was reading a few tweets on Trump’s page from Trumpers thanking him for his wisdom in withdrawing troops in Syria. “We can’t keep fighting these endless wars!” These are the same people who supported the Iraq war from the beginning and hated Obama for removing troops from Iraq, and these people are now applauding Trump for sending additional troops into Saudi Arabia. “Gotta fight them over there or fight them over here!” > > Make up your fucking “minds” motherfuckers! > > But a serious question. Why the hell are we sending troops to Saudi Arabia? Do they have an army of any consequence? They sure as hell have a lot of weapons we sold them. Maybe the question can be answered in one word - “oil.” Is there some sort of implied, or direct quid pro quo , if we don’t help them they will, what, take oil off the market? Raise prices? > > Reminds me of something. There were pictures years ago of Dubya walking hand in hand with, I think it was the Crown Prince. I’ll put this at number 17 on the list of things that, if Obama had done them, Republicans would be burning down the White House. The Republicans would whinge loudly if Obama were even a fraction as corrupt as Trump. The short of it is that the entire Republican party is corrupt and rotten to the core. They are an anti-American party. Financial gain is their only virtue, and they’re perfectly willing to sell out decades of policy that have served our collective national interests to grab that extra dollar. There is no way to be kind to Republicans, no way to consider them as friends of democracy or the country. They are what they are, and what they are is shit. If Republicans want to be considered anything other than what I’ve described, they have a choice: they can abandon that cult and form a new party based on some principles. They have a choice. It is theirs to make. If they don’t abandon the party, then they shall have to wear the label of treason. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2019, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/37703 "2019-10-12T19:35:51Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > Boy, that Kellyanne Conway sure has been quiet recently, huh? Or is it just me? Jared and Ivanka are conspicuous in their absence too. Maybe they’re in Vienna. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2019, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/37704 "2019-10-12T22:54:14Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > Projecting much, Mr. President? In this particular case, I really don’t think it is. Trump isn’t some America-hating caricature, dripping venom from his fangs as he orders yet another stupid piece of garbage that will hurt everyone. The truth is much more frightening : he doesn’t care. At all. About anyone. And it’s not a hidden thing. He tells people he doesn’t care. He told people three years ago that he wouldn’t be objective wrt to Turkey because he has hotels in Istanbul. And that’s what matters to him. And he’ll happily condemn millions of people to die horribly as long as he keeps making money off of these two pieces of real estate. America’s established foreign policy ? Trust in American alliances ? Basic decency and honesty and honouring pacts ? Or even just, fucking, America’s long term goals in the region ? The fuck dollars have \*those \*made him lately ? And while Trump objectifies these principles, or rather utter lack thereof most vividly ; the truth is… that’s what the right wing parties of Western Europe and the US have been about for as long as I’ve been alive. “I don’t care, I’m making the moneys”. And to be fair to those scumsucking parasites, their historical counterparts weren’t really all that more principled. And it’s really, but really depressing that people keep voting for the almost literal _vampires_ because the vampires told them brown people were the real bad guys or them homos are like super icky wait I’m sorry it’s the trans now because everyone’s always been cool with the LBG retroactively. I don’t know how to end this. Most people don’t even \*care \*even when they do realize it. I 'm going to drink myself silly again. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=1884) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=1886)