# The Trump Administration: A Clusterfuck in the Making **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 7, 2016, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070 "2016-12-07T00:25:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1931
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2019, 8:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/38605 "2019-11-08T08:32:41Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > In general I think the people pushing these interventions were naive but well-meaning. I’m sure there were also plenty of people looking to cash in on foreign adventures, but the fact that it never really worked out so well, I think, I doesn’t negate the fact that people really though US democracy was the answer to the world’s problems. I think the alternative is to think that people were pushing US-style democracy in these places while deep down believing it wouldn’t work without real American ™ voters. > > eta: And I fully realize that this may make me naive as well. Well, we’re starting to drift far away from the object of this thread, but ultimately I think there was (and is) and real tension between what the Average Joe believes and votes for, which might well include a sincere wish for more goodness and freedom and free speech for more people all over the world on one hand ; and the ultimate goal of foreign affairs in general, which is to engineer world events and regimes that strictly put or keep the US on top - people can be good, altruists even (even though, as life goes by in front of my eyes, I believe in that less and less) ; but governments, nations and corporations are sociopathic, self-serving and amoral. The Cold War was just an expression of that - trying to keep America in power, mostly by undermining Russia’s power (or internationalist thought’s power), by any mean. Democracies would have been nice and all, but since the free people of the world kinda sorta wanted more internationalism, less unrestrained capitalist plundering and less American hegemony, weeeeeeell… ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2019, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/38606 "2019-11-08T14:05:17Z")
How is it not a bigger story that yesterday, the president of the United States acknowledged in a court of law that his “charity” was a fraud to enrich himself and his family? By court order he has to pay millions in fines, and is no longer trusted to be involved in philanthropic work anymore without significant oversight. The president of the United States, by law, can’t run a soup kitchen, but has the nuclear codes. And this is a page three story. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2019, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/38607 "2019-11-08T14:17:07Z")
Zelensky, the president of Ukraine, was apparently scheduled to appear on CNN and announce the probe of the Bidens when Congress pressured Trump into releasing the limitary aid. He was scheduled to make the announcement two days later, but quickly cancelled once the Aid was assured. > **[Zelensky Was Set To Announce Biden Probe On CNN, Then Congress Pressed For...](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/military-funds-ukraine-zelensky-cnn-joe-biden-trump_n_5dc4b937e4b02bf5793d2a1d)** > > The New York Times finds more evidence of a quid pro quo: Ukraine's president was happily off the hook on the investigation once military funds were released. We’re fortunate that the Right Hand didn’t know what the other Right Hand was doing, or else we’d have had this bit of propaganda hovering over a Democratic candidate, regardless of whether the blackmailing was exposed later or not. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2019, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/38608 "2019-11-08T14:57:35Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > How is it not a bigger story that yesterday, the president of the United States acknowledged in a court of law that his “charity” was a fraud to enrich himself and his family? By court order he has to pay millions in fines, and is no longer trusted to be involved in philanthropic work anymore without significant oversight. > > The president of the United States, by law, can’t run a soup kitchen, but has the nuclear codes. And this is a page three story. I know it’s an over used point by now, but can you only imagine if Obama had done it? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Greenjeans](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.greenjeans/32/551_2.png) [@Mr.Greenjeans](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Greenjeans)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2019, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/38609 "2019-11-08T15:00:20Z")
To hear Republicans tell it, he did much worse. (And don’t ask them about all the people that Hillary killed…) ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2019, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/38610 "2019-11-08T19:03:20Z")
> [@gytalf2000](#): > > Yeah, I am a bit surprised that the toadie has any scruples at all, myself. Scruples have nothing to do with it. I think it is just an attempt to keep from being thrown under a bus - pure self preservation. He’s a scumbag, but he’s smart enough to know he has to protect himself for when Trump turns on him TOO. Like he ALWAYS does. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2019, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/38611 "2019-11-08T19:06:06Z")
> [@Crotalus](#): > > If Trump loses by anything other than a landslide, we are going to see a sh!t-storm the likes of which we have never seen, IMO. Frivolous court cases, unfounded recount demands, specious claims of outright fraud, outrageous things I’m too innocent to even imagine until he actually does them. We are in for a very bad period following election day 2020, no matter what the result is. If he wins, we get the worst president in history for four more years. If he loses big, God know what he’ll do as a lame duck. If he loses by a small margin, he will do anything he can do disallow the result, and he’ll have lots of willing help. I’m just waiting (sarcasm) for the flag wavin’ rootin’ tootin’ gun havin’ superpatriot MAGAts to start their rebellion / civil war if / when Trump is impeached and drummed out or loses. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_stainless_steel_rat/32/5727_2.png) [@The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Stainless_Steel_Rat)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2019, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/38612 "2019-11-08T19:28:53Z")
Trump has a possible trip planned for 2020. Guess where: [https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia-idUSKBN1XI1UG?fbclid=IwAR2Nu-nkPa1jWLFYejrTcK4b6N\_4wouRAi2-SxWnuYlr\_Cd\_dTENfSI6lNU](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia-idUSKBN1XI1UG?fbclid=IwAR2Nu-nkPa1jWLFYejrTcK4b6N_4wouRAi2-SxWnuYlr_Cd_dTENfSI6lNU) > [@](#): > > U.S. President Donald Trump said on Friday he was considering attending Russia’s May 9 Victory Day commemorative events after President Vladimir Putin extended an invitation. > > “I appreciate the invitation. It is right in the middle of political season, so I’ll see if I can do it, but I would love to go if I could,” Trump told reporters before departing the White House for campaign-related events. Well, Putin is going to throw a big military parade…and we all know how the Pres loves big military parades. _Sigh_–I guess I can see this–Russia probably has the most to remember as they suffered the most from WWII and it’s the 75th anniversary–but jeez, you’d kinda think we’d join in with our other allies…you know, the democratic ones? ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2019, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/38613 "2019-11-08T19:42:36Z")
If he stays there and never comes back, I’ll take it as a compromise. All roads lead to Putin, indeed. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2019, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/38614 "2019-11-08T19:58:40Z")
He has to go visit the boss for a performance review. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2019, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/38615 "2019-11-08T20:26:38Z")
Scapegoat Season! > [@](#): > > **House GOP looks to protect Trump by raising doubts about motives of his deputies** > House Republicans’ latest plan to shield President Trump from impeachment is to focus on at least three deputies — U.S. Ambassador to the European Union Gordon Sondland, Trump’s lawyer Rudolph W. Giuliani, and possibly acting White House chief of staff Mick Mulvaney — who they say could have acted on their own to influence Ukraine policy. > > All three occupy a special place in the Ukraine narrative as the people in most direct contact with Trump. As Republicans argue that most of the testimony against Trump is based on faulty secondhand information, they are sowing doubts about whether Sondland, Giuliani and Mulvaney were actually representing the president or freelancing to pursue their own agendas. The GOP is effectively offering up the three to be fall guys. > … > The suggestion that Sondland, Giuliani and possibly Mulvaney made demands of Ukrainians without Trump’s explicit blessing has emerged among several theories that Republicans have offered in Trump’s defense, as witnesses testify that they believed Ukraine was being squeezed. > > In a sign of how the GOP is scrambling, however, many of those theories run counter to each other. > **[House GOP looks to protect Trump by raising doubts about motives of his deputies](https://www.washingtonpost.com/powerpost/house-gop-looks-to-protect-trump-by-raising-doubts-about-motives-of-his-deputies/2019/11/07/aaa14efa-0173-11ea-8bab-0fc209e065a8_story.html)** > > Republicans are questioning whether Sondland, Giuliani and Mulvaney were representing the president’s interest or freelancing to pursue their own agendas. ---
**Author:** ![MindsEye\_Watering](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mindseye_watering/32/3619_2.png) [@MindsEye\_Watering](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MindsEye_Watering)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2019, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/38616 "2019-11-08T20:31:04Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Scapegoat Season! > [https://www.washingtonpost.com/powerpost/house-gop-looks-to-protect-trump-by-raising-doubts-about-motives-of-his-deputies/2019/11/07/aaa14efa-0173-11ea-8bab-0fc209e065a8\_story.html](https://www.washingtonpost.com/powerpost/house-gop-looks-to-protect-trump-by-raising-doubts-about-motives-of-his-deputies/2019/11/07/aaa14efa-0173-11ea-8bab-0fc209e065a8_story.html) Gonna need a bigger bus. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2019, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/38617 "2019-11-08T20:31:56Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Scapegoat Season! > > [https://www.washingtonpost.com/powerpost/house-gop-looks-to-protect-trump-by-raising-doubts-about-motives-of-his-deputies/2019/11/07/aaa14efa-0173-11ea-8bab-0fc209e065a8\_story.html](https://www.washingtonpost.com/powerpost/house-gop-looks-to-protect-trump-by-raising-doubts-about-motives-of-his-deputies/2019/11/07/aaa14efa-0173-11ea-8bab-0fc209e065a8_story.html) OHHH, not just Sondland under the bus but also Giuliani and Mulvaney. \ “We’re gonna need a bigger bus” ---
**Author:** ![mjmlabs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mjmlabs/32/69_2.png) [@mjmlabs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mjmlabs)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2019, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/38618 "2019-11-08T20:36:40Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > How is it not a bigger story that yesterday, the president of the United States acknowledged in a court of law that his “charity” was a fraud to enrich himself and his family? By court order he has to pay millions in fines, and is no longer trusted to be involved in philanthropic work anymore without significant oversight. > > The president of the United States, by law, can’t run a soup kitchen, but has the nuclear codes. And this is a page three story. What page has the stories about how the president of the United States, decades ago, raped a woman in a fitting room, according to multiple contemporaneous accounts? :eek: I still don’t understand how that’s not the biggest story short of nuclear holocaust or confirmed extra-terrestrial life. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2019, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/38619 "2019-11-08T21:39:03Z")
\ ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2019, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/38620 "2019-11-08T21:49:28Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Oh yeah. He’ll be doing that right away. :rolleyes: I’m not gonna hold my breath, are you? Didn’t think so 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2019, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/38621 "2019-11-08T22:35:47Z")
Bigger bus? [Bigger than that.](https://www.businessinsider.com/alexander-vindman-trump-threaten-smear-campaign-video-2019-11) > [@](#): > > Trump threatens smear campaign against Alexander Vindman, the Purple Heart recipient who said the White House left out some phrases from its Ukraine call memo ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2019, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/38622 "2019-11-08T22:50:08Z")
> [@The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](#): > > Trump has a possible trip planned for 2020. Guess where: [https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia-idUSKBN1XI1UG?fbclid=IwAR2Nu-nkPa1jWLFYejrTcK4b6N\_4wouRAi2-SxWnuYlr\_Cd\_dTENfSI6lNU](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia-idUSKBN1XI1UG?fbclid=IwAR2Nu-nkPa1jWLFYejrTcK4b6N_4wouRAi2-SxWnuYlr_Cd_dTENfSI6lNU) > > Well, Putin is going to throw a big military parade…and we all know how the Pres loves big military parades. > > _Sigh_–I guess I can see this–Russia probably has the most to remember as they suffered the most from WWII and it’s the 75th anniversary–but jeez, you’d kinda think we’d join in with our other allies…you know, the democratic ones? I’m surprised he’s willing to offend a chunk of his base by celebrating a big victory over Nazis. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2019, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/38623 "2019-11-08T23:58:13Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > OHHH, not just Sondland under the bus but also Giuliani and Mulvaney. > > \ “We’re gonna need a bigger bus” [Маронетт 1](https://binged.it/2K0wesD). Ironic, as it’s a lot more articulated than Trump. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2019, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/38624 "2019-11-09T00:56:50Z")
The guy over at _fake-news-network_ provides us with [a list of two score statements](https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/08/politics/donald-trump-press-conference/index.html) from CFSG’s Friday press conferency thing. He tries to keep it together, but about halfway through, his head asplodes. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=1930) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=1932)