# The Trump Administration: A Clusterfuck in the Making **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 7, 2016, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070 "2016-12-07T00:25:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1973
**Author:** ![Mundane\_Super\_Hero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mundane_super_hero/32/6304_2.png) [@Mundane\_Super\_Hero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mundane_Super_Hero)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2019, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/39445 "2019-12-18T21:21:24Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > His “base” is threatening civil war if he s impeached and / or removed. Fuck him, fuck them. > > Fucking traitor bastards. You know, if I remember my history correctly the ‘Tet Offensive’ was a MASSIVE failure, as all of the insurgent traitors identified themselves and were easily dealt with. Good Times. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2019, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/39446 "2019-12-18T21:34:07Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > Do you really think active military members will betray their country and oath and join into an armed insurrection against their own country and its people? Really? About what percentage of our military do you see doing this? You are blinded by your own POV. They wouldn’t think that they are “betraying their country”, they would think that they are opposing an illegal unconstitutional coup overturning The People’s Vote and engineered by the traitorous Deep State. They would be the good guys standing up for their country from their POV, just like the other MAGA fundamentalists. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2019, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/39447 "2019-12-18T21:52:23Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > they would think that they are opposing an illegal unconstitutional coup overturning The People’s Vote and engineered by the traitorous Deep State. They would be the good guys standing up for their country from their POV, just like the other MAGA fundamentalists. No, they actually would not think that. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2019, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/39448 "2019-12-18T21:55:22Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > You are blinded by your own POV. They wouldn’t think that they are “betraying their country”, they would think that they are opposing an illegal unconstitutional coup overturning The People’s Vote and engineered by the traitorous Deep State. They would be the good guys standing up for their country from their POV, just like the other MAGA fundamentalists. What branch were you in? ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2019, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/39449 "2019-12-18T21:56:09Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > No, they actually would not think that. MAGAs claim that _every fucking day_! If you think the US military is free of people like that, you are a fool. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2019, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/39450 "2019-12-18T21:57:24Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > What branch were you in? I’m in something called “[not fucking blind](https://www.thedailybeast.com/if-trumps-rage-brings-civil-war-where-will-the-military-stand).” ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2019, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/39451 "2019-12-18T22:04:20Z")
I’m having a hard time parsing the Republican argument that impeachement is reversing the duly elected president’s election. Isn’t that what impeachment is supposed to do. I mean, it’s literally the reason the word exists, and why it is in the Constitution in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2019, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/39452 "2019-12-18T22:05:14Z")
> [@JcWoman](#): > > It seems to me that the second amendment was originally intended to allow the people to rise up and prevent our democracy from being corrupted into a dictatorship. That’s odd, since other parts of your constitution are pretty explicit about frowning on insurrection. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2019, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/39453 "2019-12-18T22:09:23Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > You are blinded by your own POV. They wouldn’t think that they are “betraying their country”, they would think that they are opposing an illegal unconstitutional coup overturning The People’s Vote and engineered by the traitorous Deep State. They would be the good guys standing up for their country from their POV, just like the other MAGA fundamentalists. Okay, see, I’ll give you the massive benefit of the doubt and assume you’re correct that any non-trivial percentage of the united states military are such moronic worthless pieces of shit that they will betray their oath and attack the country. Yes, I’ll assume that some number of these people exist. However, I will not assume that whole _units_ are composed of people like this, honorless worthless criminals. This means that even in the worst case you will not have the military joining up with the stained-wifebeater-clad masses of people rebelling from their recliners. In the worst case you will have criminals stealing a small amount of military equipment, going AWOL, and getting hunted down, possibly after doing some random damage and murder. The better the equipment they take, the faster they will be hunted down. That clever chap trying to boost a tank won’t even make it off the base. It’s either that or they start their campaign by murdering their own squads. (Such noble warriors!) How many of them do you think will be able to pull that off? ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2019, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/39454 "2019-12-18T22:35:15Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Okay, see, I’ll give you the massive benefit of the doubt and assume you’re correct that any non-trivial percentage of the united states military are such moronic worthless pieces of shit that they will betray their oath and attack the country. Yes, I’ll assume that some number of these people exist. > > However, I will not assume that whole _units_ are composed of people like this, honorless worthless criminals. > > This means that even in the worst case you will not have the military joining up with the stained-wifebeater-clad masses of people rebelling from their recliners. In the worst case you will have criminals stealing a small amount of military equipment, going AWOL, and getting hunted down, possibly after doing some random damage and murder. The better the equipment they take, the faster they will be hunted down. That clever chap trying to boost a tank won’t even make it off the base. > > It’s either that or they start their campaign by murdering their own squads. (Such noble warriors!) How many of them do you think will be able to pull that off? I like your posts. They’re always sensible. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2019, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/39455 "2019-12-18T22:37:26Z")
Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2019, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/39456 "2019-12-18T22:39:22Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > I’m in something called “[not fucking blind](https://www.thedailybeast.com/if-trumps-rage-brings-civil-war-where-will-the-military-stand).” I don’t think we’re at the point of civil war yet - he needs more time to conduct an inquisition within the military. And at this point, I think most of the civil war talk is white male rage from people who are mostly law abiding and wouldn’t risk jail time. As I’ve said on another thread, what I do worry about more is the increasing threats to political figures, progressive activists, and members of the media. The right wing is creating an environment in which someone who’s off his meds or even someone who’s just suicidal and full of rage could go off on perceived ‘enemies’. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2019, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/39457 "2019-12-18T22:39:28Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > That’s odd, since other parts of your constitution are pretty explicit about frowning on insurrection. It’s being corrupted right now by Trump, his Trump Party and the real boss Putin, and they don’t give a fuck. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2019, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/39458 "2019-12-18T22:59:35Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Okay, see, I’ll give you the massive benefit of the doubt and assume you’re correct that any non-trivial percentage of the united states military are such moronic worthless pieces of shit that they will betray their oath and attack the country. Yes, I’ll assume that some number of these people exist. > > However, I will not assume that whole _units_ are composed of people like this, honorless worthless criminals. > > This means that even in the worst case you will not have the military joining up with the stained-wifebeater-clad masses of people rebelling from their recliners. In the worst case you will have criminals stealing a small amount of military equipment, going AWOL, and getting hunted down, possibly after doing some random damage and murder. The better the equipment they take, the faster they will be hunted down. That clever chap trying to boost a tank won’t even make it off the base. > > It’s either that or they start their campaign by murdering their own squads. (Such noble warriors!) How many of them do you think will be able to pull that off? Excellent post, but it’s even bigger than that. The military is a giant logistics organization with a very, very tiny (but very pointy) tip. That tip can’t stab anything without a ton of other units working in conjunction – intel, services, supply, maintenance, etc. Ground units require air support, air units require boots on the ground, etc. I’m not sure what people actually envision happening when they’re talking about military coups. If the brass isn’t all on board, then nothing will matter, and all we need to do is look at how the brass reacted to Trump’s interfering with their discipline process recently to see how enthralled they’d be with abandoning 243 years of peaceful transitions of power to support a dipshit like Trump. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2019, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/39459 "2019-12-18T23:13:32Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > Excellent post, but it’s even bigger than that. The military is a giant logistics organization with a very, very tiny (but very pointy) tip. That tip can’t stab anything without a ton of other units working in conjunction – intel, services, supply, maintenance, etc. Ground units require air support, air units require boots on the ground, etc. > > I’m not sure what people actually envision happening when they’re talking about military coups. If the brass isn’t all on board, then nothing will matter, and all we need to do is look at how the brass reacted to Trump’s interfering with their discipline process recently to see how enthralled they’d be with abandoning 243 years of peaceful transitions of power to support a dipshit like Trump. I would say that this is true at the present time, and I don’t believe the military high brass (and even most of the lower ranking personnel) would participate in a coup. But I would not make the mistake of assuming that Trump couldn’t inflict serious damage to the military and that he couldn’t find loyalists who could, over time, transform the military into something different from what it is now. I don’t want to go too far down that road of disaster scenarios, but the possibility of Trump destabilizing the military as a result of hyperpartisan politics does exist. How long it would take before we get to the crisis stage is anyone’s guess. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2019, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/39460 "2019-12-18T23:27:48Z")
While there are quite a few fans of Trump in the military, his support is not exactly super-strong there. In fact it’s dropping. > **[Half of active-duty service members are unhappy with Trump, new Military...](https://www.militarytimes.com/news/pentagon-congress/2019/12/17/half-of-active-duty-service-members-are-unhappy-with-trump-new-military-times-poll-shows/)** > > But Trump is still more popular than Obama was among troops. Mostly because of Trump’s firing and subsequent disrespect of the popular Mattis. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2019, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/39461 "2019-12-19T00:18:36Z")
> [@MindsEye\_Watering](#): > > I would be very curious to see how the gutless coward MAGAtrash goobers would conduct a civil war. How would they start it? Raid their local big box store for a new TV. I’m serious. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2019, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/39462 "2019-12-19T00:42:35Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > Really? You don’t think most of them are NRA members? The overwhelming majority of the military is young men from disenfranchized backgrounds (by design, but don’t say that part out loud). Non-whites are disproportionally represented among grunts (not among officers mind you because obviously). If you think the military is all MAGA hats, think again. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2019, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/39463 "2019-12-19T00:49:21Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > I’m having a hard time parsing the Republican argument that impeachement is reversing the duly elected president’s election. Isn’t that what impeachment is supposed to do. I mean, it’s literally the reason the word exists, and why it is in the Constitution in the first place. As I said in another thread, take the example of 1972. Nixon won in a landslide. Two years later, he was out the door. Of course, that was when Congress actually had some scruples and took their oaths seriously. ---
**Author:** ![River\_Hippie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/river_hippie/32/26_2.png) [@River\_Hippie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/River_Hippie)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2019, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/39464 "2019-12-19T00:52:30Z")
I’ve been listening to a podcast, [The Asset](https://theassetpodcast.org/), that I have found very interesting. It covers Trump’s business failures, bankruptcies and how this led him to Russian money, money laundering and collusion with Putin. It lays everything out step by step and makes it easy to understand. I’m still on Season 1. It’s definitely coming from an anti Trump stance and I haven’t looked into the guy that does it, [Max Bergmann](https://www.americanprogress.org/about/staff/bergmann-max/bio/), but I will continue listening. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=1972) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=1974)