# The Trump Administration: A Clusterfuck in the Making **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 7, 2016, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070 "2016-12-07T00:25:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2032
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2020, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/40625 "2020-02-17T01:49:37Z")
> [@Mr.Duality](#): > > Here is some news which should reassure us that that the US armed forces will _not_ support Trump’s march toward authoritarianism. > > [https://www.businessinsider.com/marine-corps-generals-leaving-trump-administration-kelly-mattis-2020-2](https://www.businessinsider.com/marine-corps-generals-leaving-trump-administration-kelly-mattis-2020-2) > > "Shortly after his being sworn in, Trump boasted that “my generals … are going to keep us so safe.” > > But during his presidency, Trump’s generals have slowly fell by the wayside, many of them resigning because their views were not “aligned” with his. The tepid resignation letters from these high-profile military officials evolved into a more pronounced denunciation, with some being outspoken in their opposition against Trump’s policies." > > It gets even better. Have a look. Those jobs get filled by somebody. They’re replaceable. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2020, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/40626 "2020-02-17T01:51:15Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > **“How Trump is closing America”** > [https://www.washingtonpost.com/immigration/trump-is-fulfilling-his-pledge-to-build-fortress-america--and-running-on-it/2020/02/11/39a2fbb8-4863-11ea-8124-0ca81effcdfb\_story.html](https://www.washingtonpost.com/immigration/trump-is-fulfilling-his-pledge-to-build-fortress-america--and-running-on-it/2020/02/11/39a2fbb8-4863-11ea-8124-0ca81effcdfb_story.html) > [del]Give me[/del] Fuck your tired, your poor… Are you “yearning to breathe free”? Fuck you, too. The world’s intellectual talent starts thinking of other places to call their new home. And who’s going to pay for programs like SS and Medicare - our current generation of meth and opioid addicts? They’ll die by the time they’re 50. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2020, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/40627 "2020-02-17T02:00:07Z")
> [@Mr.Duality](#): > > Here is some news which should reassure us that that the US armed forces will _not_ support Trump’s march toward authoritarianism. > > [https://www.businessinsider.com/marine-corps-generals-leaving-trump-administration-kelly-mattis-2020-2](https://www.businessinsider.com/marine-corps-generals-leaving-trump-administration-kelly-mattis-2020-2) > > "Shortly after his being sworn in, Trump boasted that “my generals … are going to keep us so safe.” > > But during his presidency, Trump’s generals have slowly fell by the wayside, many of them resigning because their views were not “aligned” with his. The tepid resignation letters from these high-profile military officials evolved into a more pronounced denunciation, with some being outspoken in their opposition against Trump’s policies." > > It gets even better. Have a look. That’s a professional writer? “Have slowly fell”? ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2020, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/40628 "2020-02-17T03:42:26Z")
Brad Parscale posted an image Air Force One taking off from behind the stands at the Daytona 500 and bragged about Individual 1 winning the Daytona 500. He deleted the image after it was reported by multiple people that the photo was taken in 2004. [Air Force One photo deleted by Trump's campaign manager after people point out it's from 2004 - CNNPolitics](https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/02/16/politics/parscale-tweet-daytona-500-air-force-one-photo/index.html)? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2020, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/40629 "2020-02-17T03:49:37Z")
> [@Mr.Duality](#): > > Here is some news which should reassure us that that the US armed forces will _not_ support Trump’s march toward authoritarianism. > > [https://www.businessinsider.com/marine-corps-generals-leaving-trump-administration-kelly-mattis-2020-2](https://www.businessinsider.com/marine-corps-generals-leaving-trump-administration-kelly-mattis-2020-2) > > "Shortly after his being sworn in, Trump boasted that “my generals … are going to keep us so safe.” > > But during his presidency, Trump’s generals have slowly fell by the wayside, many of them resigning because their views were not “aligned” with his. The tepid resignation letters from these high-profile military officials evolved into a more pronounced denunciation, with some being outspoken in their opposition against Trump’s policies." > > It gets even better. Have a look. So you think that by having the people who oppose Trump resign, that makes it _less_ likely the military will now be led by people who will follow his orders? :dubious: I admit I’m not following your logic here. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2020, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/40630 "2020-02-17T03:50:51Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Brad Parscale posted an image Air Force One taking off from behind the stands at the Daytona 500 and bragged about Individual 1 winning the Daytona 500. He deleted the image after it was reported by multiple people that the photo was taken in 2004. > [Air Force One photo deleted by Trump's campaign manager after people point out it's from 2004 - CNNPolitics](https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/02/16/politics/parscale-tweet-daytona-500-air-force-one-photo/index.html)? Hey; what’s one more lie between friends, amirite? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Duality](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.duality/32/4098_2.png) [@Mr.Duality](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Duality)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2020, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/40631 "2020-02-17T04:25:25Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > So you think that by having the people who oppose Trump resign, that makes it _less_ likely the military will now be led by people who will follow his orders? :dubious: > > I admit I’m not following your logic here. I believe they are the tip of the iceberg. There must be many intelligent officers with firm grips on reality and situational awareness who also oppose Cadet Bonespurs’ actions. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2020, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/40632 "2020-02-17T04:29:45Z")
> [@Mr.Duality](#): > > I believe they are the tip of the iceberg. There must be many intelligent officers with firm grips on reality and situational awareness who also oppose Cadet Bonespurs’ actions. :dubious: O rly? Are you sure you’ve been living in this reality with the rest of us for the past 3 or 4 years? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Duality](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.duality/32/4098_2.png) [@Mr.Duality](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Duality)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2020, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/40633 "2020-02-17T04:43:41Z")
I know from 4 years of personal experience in the Marine Corps that there is an intense focus on obeying orders immediately and without question, but it is emphasized that any illegal order is an exception. That goes for both officers and enlisted personnel. When USMC Generals start to publicly air dissatisfaction, you had better believe they are in earnest and they are supported by many in the ranks. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2020, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/40634 "2020-02-17T04:46:20Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > So you think that by having the people who oppose Trump resign, that makes it _less_ likely the military will now be led by people who will follow his orders? :dubious: > > I admit I’m not following your logic here. I believe (and I have been wrong in my beliefs in the past) that the military promotes from within, based on recorded qualifications. The WH/CiC generally (npi) have minimal input in the promotion process and, more importantly, a naturally limited pool of candidates. I suspect that it is really difficult for CadetBS to put his own carefully selected persons in the upper ranks. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2020, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/40635 "2020-02-17T04:58:02Z")
> [@Mr.Duality](#): > > I believe they are the tip of the iceberg. There must be many intelligent officers with firm grips on reality and situational awareness who also oppose Cadet Bonespurs’ actions. I don’t mean to besmirch the honor of the military, but consider that the department of state isn’t different from the military. The DoJ isn’t that different. Yes, different in terms of their mission but the major agencies have honor codes and all that. It’s all next man up kinda stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2020, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/40636 "2020-02-17T05:24:33Z")
> [@Mr.Duality](#): > > I know from 4 years of personal experience in the Marine Corps that there is an intense focus on obeying orders immediately and without question, but it is emphasized that any illegal order is an exception. That goes for both officers and enlisted personnel. When USMC Generals start to publicly air dissatisfaction, you had better believe they are in earnest and they are supported by many in the ranks. I do not share your confidence at all. I think that you relying on past impressions to form your present opinion is a bad idea. > [@eschereal](#): > > I believe (and I have been wrong in my beliefs in the past) that the military promotes from within, based on recorded qualifications. The WH/CiC generally (npi) have minimal input in the promotion process and, more importantly, a naturally limited pool of candidates. I suspect that it is really difficult for CadetBS to put his own carefully selected persons in the upper ranks. I don’t think he has to; I think opportunism is enough. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Duality](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.duality/32/4098_2.png) [@Mr.Duality](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Duality)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2020, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/40637 "2020-02-17T05:47:51Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > I don’t mean to besmirch the honor of the military, but consider that the department of state isn’t different from the military. The DoJ isn’t that different. Yes, different in terms of their mission but the major agencies have honor codes and all that. It’s all next man up kinda stuff. **eschereal** is correct and you are wrong. Another difference (which has been pointed out elsewhere on this board but I can’t remember where) is that the military is several large logistics organizations with very sharp points. If a significant fraction of personnel were to stop doing their jobs, the whole behemoth will grind to a halt. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2020, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/40638 "2020-02-17T07:14:32Z")
Heck, I object just on the basis of rejecting the concept that Donald Trump ever carefully selects _anything_. Well, maybe carpet and wallpaper swatches, but that’s it. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2020, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/40639 "2020-02-17T13:52:46Z")
> [@Mr.Duality](#): > > **eschereal** is correct and you are wrong. Another difference (which has been pointed out elsewhere on this board but I can’t remember where) is that the military is several large logistics organizations with very sharp points. If a significant fraction of personnel were to stop doing their jobs, the whole behemoth will grind to a halt. I seriously doubt it. Sure, if everyone quit at once, that would be a problem, but that’s not what’s happening. It’s attrition - as I said, next man up. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2020, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/40640 "2020-02-17T15:01:41Z")
Just like Evil Goatee Chekov said… ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2020, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/40641 "2020-02-17T16:40:30Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > I do not share your confidence at all. I think that you relying on past impressions to form your present opinion is a bad idea. > > I don’t think he has to; I think opportunism is enough. It comes down to human nature. The military is an institution, one run by people. Institutions can change over time. Their cultures can change. They can be corrupted. They can be influenced by politics. There are bad apples. There are people who put personal ambitions and ideology over the broader principles that are supposed to define what the institutions stand for (Michael Flynn, anyone?). ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2020, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/40642 "2020-02-17T16:56:55Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > There are people who put personal ambitions and ideology over the broader principles that are supposed to define what the institutions stand for (Michael Flynn, anyone?). Like I said: opportunists. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2020, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/40643 "2020-02-17T17:52:18Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Heck, I object just on the basis of rejecting the concept that Donald Trump ever carefully selects _anything_. > > Well, maybe carpet and wallpaper swatches, but that’s it. Not even that. That’s why he made Ivanka. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2020, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/40644 "2020-02-17T17:56:13Z")
Another example of Trump’s ignorance: [Trump wanted CIA to kill bin Laden’s son over other high-priority targets: report](https://thehill.com/policy/national-security/cia/483322-trump-wanted-cia-to-kill-bin-ladens-son-over-other-high-priority) > [@](#): > > President Trump wanted the CIA to kill Osama bin Laden’s son Hamza bin Laden over other high-priority targets, NBC News reported Sunday. > > Intelligence officials reportedly briefed Trump on the top terrorist threats during the first two years of his presidency, including al Qaeda leader Ayman al-Zawahri, who remains alive. But the president would ask about Hamza bin Laden. > > “He would say, ‘I’ve never heard of any of these people. What about Hamza bin Laden?’” one former official told NBC News, with another Pentagon official saying it was “the only name he knew.” > > … > > Former CIA official Douglas London said the president had an “obsession” with getting Hamza bin Laden, adding in a [JustSecurity.com](http://JustSecurity.com) article that the agency did recognize the “value” in his “name recognition.” > > “Despite intelligence assessments showing the greater dangers posed by Zawahiri … and the unlikelihood Hamza was in the immediate line of succession, the president thought differently,” London wrote. “He regularly demanded updates on Hamza and insisted we accelerate our efforts to go after him.” Trump apparently does national security based on Q-score, so to speak. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=2031) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=2033)