# The Trump Administration: A Clusterfuck in the Making **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 7, 2016, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070 "2016-12-07T00:25:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2034
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2020, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/40665 "2020-02-18T21:29:55Z")
Hard done by white collar criminals - like calls to like. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2020, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/40666 "2020-02-18T21:33:53Z")
We’ll have to wait for Fox News to explain it to us. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2020, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/40667 "2020-02-18T22:28:26Z")
Trump commutes Blago’s sentence: Oddly bipartisan of him, eh wot? (What, he couldn’t find it in himself of give a full pardon to the Democrat?) What do you suppose led Trump to find it in that place where normal people have a heart, to do this? Was it to support corrupt politicians in general, who Trump sees as being of his own kindred? Or was it to exonerate (sort-of) the guy who tried to sell that evil Kenyan Obama’s former Senate seat to the highest bidder? ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2020, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/40668 "2020-02-18T22:38:55Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > Well, broad culture wise the military does seem to be [turning away from Trump.](https://www.militarytimes.com/news/pentagon-congress/2019/12/17/half-of-active-duty-service-members-are-unhappy-with-trump-new-military-times-poll-shows/) > > 49.9% of the military have an unfavorable view of Trump, (45.1% very unfavorable) compared to 41.6% that have a favorable view (24.3% very favorable). Among the officers its even worse with only 33% of officers having a favorable view. So I don’t see a military dictatorship in Trump’s near future. Aha! Perhaps this explains why Trump just zeroed out the budget for _Stars and Stripes_, the military newspaper. [Trump budget zeroes out funding for Stars and Stripes, the military’s newspaper](https://news.yahoo.com/trump-budget-zeroes-out-funding-for-stars-and-stripes-the-militarys-newspaper-191802421.html), David Knowles, _Yahoo News_, Feb. 14, 2020. > [@](#): > > The Trump administration pulled funding in its 2021 budget for Stars and Stripes, the U.S. military news organization that has published a daily newspaper continuously since World War II for troops stationed around the world. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2020, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/40669 "2020-02-18T22:46:35Z")
> [@Grey](#): > > Hard done by white collar criminals - like calls to like. That explains his pardoning of Arpaio and his pet war criminals as well. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2020, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/40670 "2020-02-19T00:05:48Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > I’m trying to come up with Trump’s motivation for some of these actions – figuring he’s 100% motivated by “what’s in it for me?” – and I’m stumped. Is there a sizable contingent of Ohio voters who are thinking “Well, I got no use for Trump, but any friend of Eddie D’s is all right in my book!”? Enough to carry Ohio in November? Not seeing it. I posted this in the How has Trump Pissed You Off Today thread: > [@How has Former President Trump pissed you off today?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-has-former-president-trump-pissed-you-off-today/777640/7485): > > OP/ED piece about Trump using his pardon power for political benefit: > > [Why did Trump just pardon a former owner of the 49ers? In part because he wants to win Ohio.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/02/18/why-did-trump-just-pardon-former-owner-49ers-part-because-he-wants-win-ohio/#comments-wrapper) > > > [@](#): > > > > Howland is a bit east of the city of Warren which is itself due northwest of the much larger city of Youngstown. In Youngstown, the DeBartolos weren’t quite royalty, but they weren’t quite not. I knew the name DeBartolo within weeks of moving to the area. They were a family that had risen to national prominence from an area that was more often the subject of mopey songs or depressing news articles about the American economy. Youngstown was a big loser in the economy of the 1970s and 1980s — but could also boast of being the home to the family that owned a team that kept winning the Super Bowl. > > > > … > > > > Ed DeBartolo Jr. did eventually face criminal charges after being solicited for a bribe by the governor of Louisiana and failing to report it. He agreed in 1998 to serve two years’ probation and pay $1 million in fines. He transferred ownership of the 49ers to his sister Denise DeBartolo York in 2000. > > > > On Tuesday, President Trump granted DeBartolo a full pardon. In the abstract, it’s an odd decision, focused on someone whose infraction was fairly minor and resolved two decades ago. It may be a function in part of the 49ers’ reemergence as a force in the NFL. But it may also be a way to send a signal to a critical part of an important state. > > > > In the 2016 election, Mahoning County, where Youngstown is located, narrowly voted for Hillary Clinton over Trump, though Trump benefited from a 25-point swing in his favor. Trumbull County, where Warren and Howland are located, voted Republican for the first time since 1972. Trump won Ohio by eight points, but polling last year had him trailing some potential Democratic opponents. Locking down Mahoning County, 2 percent of the state’s population, doesn’t hurt Trump’s chances. > > > > There are other reasons for Trump to have been sympathetic to DeBartolo, including that the Youngstown native supported Trump’s presidency. But someone, somewhere, no doubt kept Trump apprised of DeBartolo’s popularity in a region central to American presidential politics. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2020, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/40671 "2020-02-19T00:14:16Z")
> [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](#): > > God I hope this is true. I am in numerous (perhaps too many) military related Facebook groups and it seems like the majority of the participants are loud, obnoxiously, and stupidly pro-Trump. … Those participants may not actually be members of the American military. (Fake accounts do exist on Facebook—many of them tended by paid operatives.) ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2020, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/40672 "2020-02-19T00:42:37Z")
I think Trump might have actually fucked up today. I know people are apathetic, and maybe this turns out to be a nothing burger. But I see absolutely no upside to a mass pardon of what amounts to a who’s who of white collar criminals. Slightly, ever-so-slightly less Chicken Little-ish today, if only because it’s instances like these that remind me that no matter how much his team schemes to rig the system, he will inevitably do something inexplicably stupid to give back whatever advantages he gains. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2020, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/40673 "2020-02-19T00:46:12Z")
It’s like he’s assembling his own Suicide Squad, except dumber. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2020, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/40674 "2020-02-19T00:47:27Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > Aha! Perhaps this explains why Trump just zeroed out the budget for _Stars and Stripes_, the military newspaper. > > [Trump budget zeroes out funding for Stars and Stripes, the military’s newspaper](https://news.yahoo.com/trump-budget-zeroes-out-funding-for-stars-and-stripes-the-militarys-newspaper-191802421.html), David Knowles, _Yahoo News_, Feb. 14, 2020. Yeah, that thought crossed my mind when I first posted, but researching it, it looks like the military times is a different organization. Reading the fine print, it appears that the poll was of Military times subscribers, and was based on a voluntary response so there might be a selection bias. But the trend does appear to be real. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2020, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/40675 "2020-02-19T00:47:31Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > I think Trump might have actually fucked up today. I know people are apathetic, and maybe this turns out to be a nothing burger. But I see absolutely no upside to a mass pardon of what amounts to a who’s who of white collar criminals. If you assume that most people will hear nothing more than ‘the President pardoned several people’—and I’m guessing that’s a safe assumption—then this will help Trump by normalizing the ideas that, a) white-collar crime is no big deal and we should just let it go, and b) politicians all Do Stuff and none of it really matters. For Trump, the more people believe things like that, the better. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2020, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/40676 "2020-02-19T01:10:28Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > If you assume that most people will hear nothing more than ‘the President pardoned several people’—and I’m guessing that’s a safe assumption—then this will help Trump by normalizing the ideas that, a) white-collar crime is no big deal and we should just let it go, and b) politicians all Do Stuff and none of it really matters. > > For Trump, the more people believe things like that, the better. I think he’s definitely aiming for your item ‘b’, which is to say that he wants us to believe that ‘politicians do stuff, nothing to see here.’ But I’d like to think optics are a thing and that they occasionally matter - even for Trump. To your point, though, this could be swallowed up by another news cycle - that’s what seems to happen in most of his other scandals. Still, a part of me wants to believe that this will lower his ceiling even if by just a centimeter - every bit helps. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2020, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/40677 "2020-02-19T01:25:25Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > I think Trump might have actually fucked up today. I know people are apathetic, and maybe this turns out to be a nothing burger. But I see absolutely no upside to a mass pardon of what amounts to a who’s who of white collar criminals. This is Trump were talking about. I’m guessing pay-offs were made. Put a hundred thousand dollars in a Swiss Bank account with this number and Trump pardons you. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2020, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/40678 "2020-02-19T02:04:35Z")
Tell me again how the orange SOB is not [turning the country into a banana republic ruled by a dictator](https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-pardons-blagojevich-barr-roger-stone-chief-law-enforcement-officer-203952347.html): > [@](#): > > Trump declares himself ‘chief law enforcement officer’ as he issues numerous pardons ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2020, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/40679 "2020-02-19T02:34:36Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Tell me again how the orange SOB is not [turning the country into a banana republic ruled by a dictator](https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-pardons-blagojevich-barr-roger-stone-chief-law-enforcement-officer-203952347.html): Well, technically…he could make that argument. It’s just that, according to existing norms that were understood, that wasn’t the case. A different era now, I reckon. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2020, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/40680 "2020-02-19T03:16:44Z")
The common thread to today’s activity: they were all Trump supporters and/or had powerful friends, like Sheldon Adelson or people at Fox. He was just doing favors for his homies. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2020, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/40681 "2020-02-19T03:38:23Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > Trump commutes Blago’s sentence: Oddly bipartisan of him, eh wot? > > (What, he couldn’t find it in himself of give a full pardon to the Democrat?) > > What do you suppose led Trump to find it in that place where normal people have a heart, to do this? > > Was it to support corrupt politicians in general, who Trump sees as being of his own kindred? > > Or was it to exonerate (sort-of) the guy who tried to sell that evil Kenyan Obama’s former Senate seat to the highest bidder? I don’t suppose the state of Illinois could try Blago on state corruption charges, could it? ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2020, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/40682 "2020-02-19T06:29:25Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > I don’t suppose the state of Illinois could try Blago on state corruption charges, could it? That would require some research. We discussed this in some thread a while back, IIRC. The relevant questions were revolved around Double Jeopardy questions. Suppose you are accused of an act that is a crime in both state and federal law. (1) If you’re tried and acquitted in a federal court, can you be tried for the same crime in a state court? (2) If you’re tried and acquitted in a state court, can you then be tried for the same crime in a federal court? (3) If you are convicted of a crime in federal court and then pardoned by the president, is that the same as being acquitted for purposes of being protected from Double Jeopardy in a state court? (Not relevant for Blago, since Trump didn’t actually pardon him.) In some Supreme Court case, they ruled that the federal government and state governments are separate sovereigns, so acquittal in one of those courts does NOT protect you from double jeopardy in the other. Some states, feeling that was a wrongful decision, then passed state laws that acquittal in a federal court DOES protect you from subsequent prosecution in state court. But such laws cannot protect a state-acquitted defendant from subsequent prosecution in a federal court. The states can tell themselves what to do, but they cannot tell the fed what to do. New York has had such a law. This raised the question of whether all the New York criminals that Trump pardoned were off the hook. So recently and very hurriedly, New York passed a law clarifying that a presidential pardon DOES NOT protect one from further prosecution in New York in the way that a federal acquittal would. At least, I think I’m remembering that right – I’m not sure if that was the final word on it, or what the current status is. (Anyone?) I don’t know if such a law exists in Illinois. It wouldn’t help Blago anyway. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2020, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/40683 "2020-02-19T06:41:06Z")
Does anyone remember nearly a decade of RWs ranting about the tyranny of Obama, complete with various photoshops of him depicted as some despot or another, often including infamous symbology? How the RWs and tea-shirt types raved constantly and irrationally about how corrupt and despicable he was? It seems to me that the foam and spittle might have been carefully cultivated, specifically far the purpose of devaluing the perception of the opposition. Now that the Rs are in power, they can point to the currently established tradition of the opposition overreacting to those in power. The non-RW response to Individual-ONE, characterized by RWers as “TDS”, is founded upon their own standard of insanity. Just one more shining example of their polished projection. They have become alarmingly adept at this shell game. Is there an effective means of large-scale combat against this evil shit? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2020, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/40684 "2020-02-19T06:49:55Z")
Maybe. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=2033) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=2035)