# The Trump Administration: A Clusterfuck in the Making **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 7, 2016, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070 "2016-12-07T00:25:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2036
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2020, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/40705 "2020-02-19T21:28:55Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > All this is true. But it appears that Trump’s handlers aren’t counting on the traditional military to provide muscle for harassing “the wrong” people at polling places, keeping demonstrators fearful and few, etc. He’s building up ICE and associated border-patrol forces: > > [Trump administration to deploy Border Patrol officers to sanctuary cities](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/trump-administration-deploy-border-patrol-officers-sanctuary-cities-n1137261) > > Only one hundred now, but as people get used to having Trump’s private forces encamped in their cities, the numbers can be increased. > > There’s really nothing they can’t be counted on to do in Trump’s interest—which can’t really be said for the Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, and Coast Guard, who are (from Trump’s point of view) far too interested in following traditions of non-involvement in civilian affairs. (Though perhaps the Space Force might be more amenable to breaking heads for Trump; we’ll have to wait and see on that one.) > Additional information on the build-up of ICE and CBP in the new White House budget: > [https://www.politico.com/news/2020/02/09/trump-border-wall-cash-billions-112860](https://www.politico.com/news/2020/02/09/trump-border-wall-cash-billions-112860) I realize this is getting pretty far down the road into the future dystopia, but when the GOP controlled the Congress, one fear of mine was that Trump would try to create his own special domestic police forces. I suppose the CBP and ICE would qualify, but they’re limited in scope. Trump’s best bet would be to start by cleaning out the FBI and replacing agents and battering ram guys with loyalists. It might take another year or two, but in time, he could reshape the agency into his image. DHS also has a large domestic police force. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2020, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/40706 "2020-02-19T21:37:03Z")
> [@dasmoocher](#): > > Trump is draining something, alright–the government of people with integrity or who don’t suck up to him. > > [Purge continues: Top Pentagon official connected to Trump Ukraine scandal is out](https://www.rawstory.com/2020/02/purge-continues-top-pentagon-official-connected-to-trump-ukraine-scandal-is-out/) To follow up on something posted earlier, it’s naive to believe that Trump (or the wrong kind of president) couldn’t transform the military’s culture. Would the military suffer? Would combat readiness and conflict preparedness and overall competence suffer? Absolutely, but the culture could change nevertheless. The only way the military, the DoJ, or members of the president’s executive agencies could possibly fight back and stop him is mass resignation and mass protest - that is the only way. Otherwise, it’s just one-by-one attrition, next man up. The fact that the president is incompetent at his job won’t necessarily prevent him from being re-elected and keeping his job. The people in this country need to get slapped in the face and they need buckets of ice water over their heads to wake up and figure out that something’s not right. Until then, Trump will just continued to be Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2020, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/40707 "2020-02-19T22:16:24Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > The only way the military, the DoJ, or members of the president’s executive agencies could possibly fight back and stop him is mass resignation and mass protest - that is the only way. Otherwise, it’s just one-by-one attrition, next man up. Or it hastens the process and makes it more complete. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2020, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/40708 "2020-02-19T22:45:10Z")
I don’t think Trump can look for any allies in the military (I think all discussion of Trump building some sort of SS private army is far-fetched, but let’s roll with it). His relationship with the military is extremely fraught: He ordered their embarrassing retreat from Syria. He caused Iranian missiles to rain down on them, and then dismissed their casualties as “headaches”. He whines constantly about how much we have to spend on defense alliances, and wants to turn the military into a mercenary force. He insults their leadership, calling them “losers” and saying he wouldn’t go to war with them. He raids their budget to build his wall. He disrupts their system of justice and chain of command, pardoning criminals to gain brownie points with his base. These aren’t the actions of someone trying to curry favor at the Pentagon. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2020, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/40709 "2020-02-19T22:49:27Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > I realize this is getting pretty far down the road into the future dystopia, but when the GOP controlled the Congress, one fear of mine was that Trump would try to create his own special domestic police forces. I suppose the CBP and ICE would qualify, but they’re limited in scope. > > Trump’s best bet would be to start by cleaning out the FBI and replacing agents and battering ram guys with loyalists. It might take another year or two, but in time, he could reshape the agency into his image. DHS also has a large domestic police force. That doesn’t bother me nearly as much as the fact that there are dozens, perhaps hundreds of organizations and corporations that also have modern arms and defenses. Trump could fire everyone not loyal to him and have a new batch of hungry and grateful troops and new commanding officers within a few days. How many of them would walk away from the chance for legitimacy AND a good, steady paycheck? If you think Blackwater was the only mercenary/security company in the US, you’re sadly mistaken; it’s at least a $100B/year business. And more and more, they are already acting like cops. Here: watch [this 6:14 video about Detroit’s Threat Management Services](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pt6hnabnkU) and tell me those folks wouldn’t love to be told they were now actual cops. The piece notes, btw, that many people think TMC does a better job than the Detroit PD. Then, the piece talks a bit about how much things cost. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2020, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/40710 "2020-02-19T23:14:57Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > I realize this is getting pretty far down the road into the future dystopia, but when the GOP controlled the Congress, one fear of mine was that Trump would try to create his own special domestic police forces. I suppose the CBP and ICE would qualify, but they’re limited in scope. > > Trump’s best bet would be to start by cleaning out the FBI and replacing agents and battering ram guys with loyalists. It might take another year or two, but in time, he could reshape the agency into his image. DHS also has a large domestic police force. Why not all three? That guy in 1930s-40s Germany had several (spiffily-uniformed) military forces to command; why shouldn’t Donald? > [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > That doesn’t bother me nearly as much as the fact that there are dozens, perhaps hundreds of organizations and corporations that also have modern arms and defenses. Trump could fire everyone not loyal to him and have a new batch of hungry and grateful troops and new commanding officers within a few days. How many of them would walk away from the chance for legitimacy AND a good, steady paycheck? > > If you think Blackwater was the only mercenary/security company in the US, you’re sadly mistaken; it’s at least a $100B/year business. And more and more, they are already acting like cops. > > Here: watch [this 6:14 video about Detroit’s Threat Management Services](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pt6hnabnkU) and tell me those folks wouldn’t love to be told they were now actual cops. The piece notes, btw, that many people think TMC does a better job than the Detroit PD. Then, the piece talks a bit about how much things cost. I think you’re quite right about this. And as Trump’s ‘_ride on Obama’s economic legacy_’ luck runs out, and the economy starts to sputter, jobs with the Trump-Shirts are going to be looking even better. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2020, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/40711 "2020-02-19T23:18:08Z")
Not sure which thread is appropriate, but in light of this current discussion: apparently “boogaloo” is the code-word for right-wing militias and yabbos to start a-shootin’: > [@](#): > > Feb. 19, 2020, 10:10 AM EST > By Brandy Zadrozny > An anti-government movement that advocates for a violent uprising targeting liberal political opponents and law enforcement has moved from the fringes of the internet into the mainstream and surged on social media in recent months, according to a group of researchers that tracks hate groups. > > The movement, which says it wants a second Civil War organized around the term “boogaloo,” includes groups on mainstream internet platforms such as Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and Reddit, as well as fringe websites including 4chan, according to a report released Tuesday night by the Network Contagion Research Institute (NCRI), an independent nonprofit of scientists and engineers that tracks and reports on misinformation and hate speech across social media. … > **[What is the 'boogaloo'? How online calls for a violent uprising are hitting...](https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/social-media/what-boogaloo-how-online-calls-violent-uprising-are-getting-organized-n1138461)** > > The movement says it wants a second Civil War targeting liberal political opponents and law enforcement. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Greenjeans](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.greenjeans/32/551_2.png) [@Mr.Greenjeans](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Greenjeans)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2020, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/40712 "2020-02-19T23:37:46Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Here: watch [this 6:14 video about Detroit’s Threat Management Services](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pt6hnabnkU) and tell me those folks wouldn’t love to be told they were now actual cops. The piece notes, btw, that many people think TMC does a better job than the Detroit PD. Yeah, but do they have an ED-209? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2020, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/40713 "2020-02-20T01:44:02Z")
Trump’s pardons and commutations are already providing him with handsome [returns on his zero-skin investment](https://apnews.com/0aefe46218f914a2adb5d4e68ffc5bb0): > [@Former Illinois Democratic Gov. and convicted felon Rod Blagojevich](#): > > I’m a Trumpocrat. If I had the ability to vote, I would vote for him. The article does note: > [@](#): > > Felons in Illinois can vote once they leave prison, though they have to register again, according to the state Board of Elections. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2020, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/40714 "2020-02-20T01:46:16Z")
> [@Mr.Greenjeans](#): > > Yeah, but do they have an ED-209? Yeah. 209, 210; whatever it takes. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2020, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/40715 "2020-02-20T02:01:57Z")
Trump loyalist now acting oppo research - er, intelligence chief. > **[Trump names staunch loyalist and current US Ambassador to Germany Richard...](https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/19/politics/trump-grennell-acting-dni/index.html)** > > President Donald Trump announced Wednesday that he has named Richard Grenell, a staunch loyalist, as acting spy chief. ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2020, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/40716 "2020-02-20T02:24:13Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Trump loyalist now acting oppo research - er, intelligence chief. > > [https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/19/politics/trump-grennell-acting-dni/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/19/politics/trump-grennell-acting-dni/index.html) Thankfully, temporarily. > [@](#): > > **from link:** > Grenell, also a former Fox News contributor, is not expected to be nominated for the full-time director position, which would require Senate confirmation. > His track record as US ambassador to Germany has also raised concerns, even among some Republicans. > “Some Republicans are outraged with the job he has done as ambassador, there is no way he could get confirmed,” a source familiar with the move said. So eventually Micheal Flynn, then? ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2020, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/40717 "2020-02-20T03:38:48Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Trump’s pardons and commutations are already providing him with handsome [returns on his zero-skin investment](https://apnews.com/0aefe46218f914a2adb5d4e68ffc5bb0):The article does note: I’d say he sold his soul in exchange for the votes of the Blagojevich family…except I’m sure he sold it long ago. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2020, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/40718 "2020-02-20T04:12:28Z")
In this instance, the Blagos sold their souls and having to become Trumpists is the price the Devil set. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2020, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/40719 "2020-02-20T04:13:49Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > I’d say he sold his soul in exchange for the votes of the Blagojevich family…except I’m sure he sold it long ago. You assume he had one to begin with. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2020, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/40720 "2020-02-20T04:30:16Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > I’d say he sold his soul in exchange for the votes of the Blagojevich family…except I’m sure he sold it long ago. Well, Trump is NYC conman. It’s not like one of those hasn’t sold the same bridge over and over. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2020, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/40721 "2020-02-20T06:42:00Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > You assume he had one to begin with. He has the biggliest, best, amazingiest soul ever known. Nobody has as grate a soul – how else could he hope to Make America Grate Again? (The soul is the thing that demands hamberders, right?) ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2020, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/40722 "2020-02-20T13:32:29Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Trump loyalist now acting oppo research - er, intelligence chief. > > [https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/19/politics/trump-grennell-acting-dni/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/19/politics/trump-grennell-acting-dni/index.html) I wonder if Mike Pence needs his wife in the room with him when meeting with Grennell, who is openly gay? ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2020, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/40723 "2020-02-20T15:38:51Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Trump loyalist now acting oppo research - er, intelligence chief. > > [https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/19/politics/trump-grennell-acting-dni/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/19/politics/trump-grennell-acting-dni/index.html) I wasn’t familiar with this guy, so I took a gander at his [Wikipedia page](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Grenell). Appears to be another example of Trump picking the “best people”, i.e. an unqualified sycophant. > [@](#): > > \*Der Spiegel \*published a profile of Grenell on January 11, 2019, using interviews with 30 “American and German diplomats, cabinet members, lawmakers, high-ranking officials, lobbyists and think tank experts". The magazine claimed that “Almost all of these sources paint an unflattering portrait of the ambassador, one remarkably similar to Donald Trump, the man who sent him to Berlin. A majority of them describe Grenell as a vain, narcissistic person who dishes out aggressively, but can barely handle criticism.” The profile claimed that Grenell is politically isolated in Berlin because of his association with the far-right Alternative for Germany Party, causing the leaders of the mainstream German parties, including the Chancellor herself, to avoid contact with him.[34] The sources claimed that Grenell “knows little about Germany and Europe, that he ignores most of the dossiers his colleagues at the embassy write for him, and that his knowledge of the subject matter is superficial.” ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2020, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/40724 "2020-02-20T16:30:58Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > Why not all three? That guy in 1930s-40s Germany had several (spiffily-uniformed) military forces to command; why shouldn’t Donald? He doesn’t have the brains or the stones. [Mussolini](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackshirts) is more his speed. True, their [uniforms](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackshirts#/media/File:March_on_Rome_1922_-_Mussolini.jpg) weren’t as spiffy as the Hugo Boss ones, but you can’t have everything. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=2035) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=2037)