# The Trump Administration: A Clusterfuck in the Making **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 7, 2016, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070 "2016-12-07T00:25:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2037
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2020, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/40725 "2020-02-20T17:46:31Z")
Stone just got sentenced to 40 months in prison. ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2020, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/40726 "2020-02-20T18:29:58Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Stone just got sentenced to 40 months in prison. How long till the pardon? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2020, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/40727 "2020-02-20T18:48:18Z")
> [@wguy123](#): > > How long till the pardon? _pulls out stopwatch_ ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2020, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/40728 "2020-02-20T18:57:08Z")
40 months? That’s barely enough time for him to die in prison. ---
**Author:** ![BigAppleBucky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigapplebucky/32/178_2.png) [@BigAppleBucky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigAppleBucky)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2020, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/40729 "2020-02-20T19:05:36Z")
> [@wguy123](#): > > How long till the pardon? How many days 'til November 4, 2020? ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2020, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/40730 "2020-02-20T20:04:24Z")
Based on his behavior the past two weeks, I’m surprised he hasn’t pardoned him already. ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2020, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/40731 "2020-02-20T20:13:34Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > Based on his behavior the past two weeks, I’m surprised he hasn’t pardoned him already. Yeah, not sure why anyone thinks he needs to wait till after the election. King Trump don’t give a fuck and King Trump’s dumbshit followers don’t have a fuck. ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2020, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/40732 "2020-02-20T20:43:15Z")
> [@wguy123](#): > > Yeah, not sure why anyone thinks he needs to wait till after the election. King Trump don’t give a fuck and King Trump’s dumbshit followers don’t have a fuck. I was going to correct my typo but gave up due to all the errors this morning. At this point, I don’t have a 502 Bad Gateway Fuck. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2020, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/40733 "2020-02-20T20:46:13Z")
> [@wguy123](#): > > Yeah, not sure why anyone thinks he needs to wait till after the election. King Trump don’t give a fuck and King Trump’s dumbshit followers don’t have a fuck. And if he doesn’t get re-elected, he won’t give a fuck about Stone either. (unless Stone has more dirt on Trump, which he probably does). ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2020, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/40734 "2020-02-20T21:05:57Z")
Individual 1 just issued an executive order diverting water from the Sacramento River Delta, where it’s protecting endangered fish, to send it to the Central Valley farmers who vote for him. [https://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/483754-trump-order-redirects-california-water-supply-after-reversal-from](https://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/483754-trump-order-redirects-california-water-supply-after-reversal-from)? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2020, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/40735 "2020-02-20T21:18:53Z")
Fish don’t vote. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2020, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/40736 "2020-02-20T21:23:21Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Fish don’t vote. Conservationists do, but they wouldn’t vote for him anyway. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2020, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/40737 "2020-02-20T22:07:56Z")
> [@wguy123](#): > > How long till the pardon? Arpaio was pardoned _before_ he was sentenced, allowing him to petition to have his conviction vacated, which the judge did. Stone already has been sentenced, so his conviction will stand, until it might be upended on an appeal. But a pardon locks the conviction in – essentially, accepting a pardon amounts to an admission of guilt. Why would this matter? Because, as a guilty person, Stone would have no 5A right to evade self-incrimination on the subject of his crime. It would be profoundly dangerous for Individual-ONE to leave a bomb like that lying around. No, I do not think he is able to comprehend that concept. But there are people in his circle who do, who might be able to prevent the stupid. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2020, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/40738 "2020-02-20T22:54:10Z")
The NY Times is reporting that the outgoing Director of National Intelligence briefed lawmakers, that Russia is continuing to work for the re-election of Trump. > [@NY Times](#): > > The day after the Feb. 13 briefing to lawmakers, Mr. Trump berated Joseph Maguire, the outgoing acting director of national intelligence, for allowing it to take place, people familiar with the exchange said. So, Trump is not upset the Russia is working for his benefit. He’s pissed that the DNI talked about it; and he’s pissed that Adam Schiff was allowed to hear it, instead of just limiting it to friendly Republicans. And Maguire was fired the next day and replaced by a know-nothing toady, but I’m sure that’s just a coincidence. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2020, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/40739 "2020-02-20T23:19:29Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Conservationists do, but they wouldn’t vote for him anyway. So from Trumps point of view killing the fish is a win in and of itself. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2020, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/40740 "2020-02-20T23:25:05Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Arpaio was pardoned _before_ he was sentenced, allowing him to petition to have his conviction vacated, which the judge did. Stone already has been sentenced, so his conviction will stand, until it might be upended on an appeal. But a pardon locks the conviction in – essentially, accepting a pardon amounts to an admission of guilt. > > Why would this matter? Because, as a guilty person, Stone would have no 5A right to evade self-incrimination on the subject of his crime. It would be profoundly dangerous for Individual-ONE to leave a bomb like that lying around. > > No, I do not think he is able to comprehend that concept. But there are people in his circle who do, who might be able to prevent the stupid. These _are_ important considerations. But former SDNY prosecutor Elie Honig says: > [@](#): > > …a person who has been pardoned generally could not invoke the Fifth Amendment to remain silent (the rationale being, if a person can’t be convicted, how can he have a right against self-incrimination?). \*\*However, a recipient of a presidential pardon might claim that he has continuing exposure under state laws \*\*-- which generally lie beyond the scope of a presidential pardon – thereby justifying an invocation of the Fifth Amendment. … [https://www.kimt.com/content/national/505057322.html](https://www.kimt.com/content/national/505057322.html) So Donald has even _less_ chance of ever understanding the situation. (my emphasis in quote) ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2020, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/40741 "2020-02-20T23:26:40Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > So from Trumps point of view killing the fish is a win in and of itself. More Filets-‘o’-Fish for Donald! ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2020, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/40742 "2020-02-20T23:27:02Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Arpaio was pardoned _before_ he was sentenced, allowing him to petition to have his conviction vacated, which the judge did. Stone already has been sentenced, so his conviction will stand, until it might be upended on an appeal. But a pardon locks the conviction in – essentially, accepting a pardon amounts to an admission of guilt. > > Why would this matter? Because, as a guilty person, Stone would have no 5A right to evade self-incrimination on the subject of his crime. It would be profoundly dangerous for Individual-ONE to leave a bomb like that lying around. > > No, I do not think he is able to comprehend that concept. But there are people in his circle who do, who might be able to prevent the stupid. I did not know that. Thanks for the edification! ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2020, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/40743 "2020-02-21T00:05:54Z")
> [@Mr.Greenjeans](#): > > Yeah, but do they have an ED-209? They did. It was disappointing. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2020, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/40744 "2020-02-21T00:08:30Z")
> [@wguy123](#): > > I did not know that. Thanks for the edification! The relevant case, a hundred fifteen years ago, was [Burdick v. US](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burdick_v._United_States), in which Prez Woody issued a pardon to the editor of the New York Tribune in order to abrogate his 5A rights, so that he could be forced to reveal a leak source. Burdick refused the pardon, and SCotUS upheld his right to do that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=2036) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=2038)