# The Trump Administration: A Clusterfuck in the Making **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 7, 2016, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070 "2016-12-07T00:25:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2162
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2020, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/43227 "2020-05-07T18:51:59Z")
DOJ just dropped all charges against Mike Flynn. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2020, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/43228 "2020-05-07T19:02:41Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > DOJ just dropped all charges against Mike Flynn. Oh, great. So now they’ll reverse Barry Bonds’ conviction for lying to the FBI, too, right? Right?! ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2020, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/43229 "2020-05-07T19:06:16Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > DOJ just dropped all charges against Mike Flynn. I don’t think that’s possible. He’s already pleaded to the charges. Absent a court’s judgment setting aside the plea for some actual reason, he is convicted. All that’s left is sentencing. I don’t see Judge Emmet Sullivan ignoring that. Remember, he actually asked the prosecutors at the previous time of sentencing if they had considered charges for treason. (He walked it back later, but he did inquire.) My understanding is that a motion to withdraw Flynn’s plea is pending but I don’t see a date yet set for hearing it. I see where Reuters is reporting that [lead prosecutor, Brandon Van Grack, has withdrawn from the case without explanation](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia-flynn/prosecutor-abruptly-quits-handling-case-against-ex-trump-adviser-michael-flynn-idUSKBN22J317) (though one could make some educated guesses)… but that’s not the same thing as a judge setting aside or allowing withdrawal of a plea. (IANAL.) ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2020, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/43230 "2020-05-07T19:24:48Z")
Just read in another thread where Flynn was granted his motion to withdraw. Somehow I missed that, and I’m stunned it was permitted by Sullivan. But… there ya go. Speculation on how long before Trump rehires Flynn? And I wonder if the [DOJ dropped any pending charges against Flynn and his son for conspiracy to kidnap and rendition a legal resident](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/nov/10/michael-flynn-trump-turkish-dissident-cleric-plot) of the USA? (The Guardian) > [@](#): > > Donald Trump’s former national security adviser, Michael Flynn, is under investigation for involvement in an alleged plot to kidnap a Turkish dissident cleric living in the US and fly him to an island prison in Turkey in return for $15m, it was reported on Friday. (Note: This is an old article.) If I were Gülen, I’d be making my plans to move to Mozambique. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2020, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/43231 "2020-05-07T19:35:30Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > I don’t think that’s possible. He’s already pleaded to the charges. Absent a court’s judgment setting aside the plea for some actual reason, he is convicted. > > All that’s left is sentencing. I don’t see Judge Emmet Sullivan ignoring that. Remember, he actually asked the prosecutors at the previous time of sentencing if they had considered charges for treason. (He walked it back later, but he did inquire.) My understanding is that a motion to withdraw Flynn’s plea is pending but I don’t see a date yet set for hearing it. > > I see where Reuters is reporting that [lead prosecutor, Brandon Van Grack, has withdrawn from the case without explanation](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia-flynn/prosecutor-abruptly-quits-handling-case-against-ex-trump-adviser-michael-flynn-idUSKBN22J317) (though one could make some educated guesses)… but that’s not the same thing as a judge setting aside or allowing withdrawal of a plea. (IANAL.) The prosecution has dropped the case, and there was never a sentencing. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2020, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/43232 "2020-05-07T19:38:01Z")
Meanwhile, in case it was missed, Trump just hired a megadonor to become the acting postmaster general. > **[Trump donor named next postmaster general](https://www.politico.com/news/2020/05/06/trump-donor-postmaster-general-241381)** > > Louis DeJoy, a North Carolina businessman, will take over after repeated complaints from the president that the U.S. Postal Service is hemorrhaging money. I mean, what could possibly go wrong with mail-in voting? ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2020, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/43233 "2020-05-07T19:41:33Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > The prosecution has dropped the case, and there was never a sentencing. That’s not how it works. The conviction occurs at the time the plea is accepted, just as a guilty verdict is rendered by a jury even if sentencing has not yet taken place. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2020, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/43234 "2020-05-07T19:57:16Z")
Let’s do some dot connecting: John Ratcliffe, Trump loyalist and QAnon follower, is now the director of national intelligence. > **[Opinion | Trump's DNI nominee follows QAnon Twitter. Here's why that's...](https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/john-ratcliffe-trump-s-dni-nominee-follows-qanon-twitter-s-ncna1200726)** > > Our nation needs an honest broker in the intelligence role, not a highly partisan conspiracy monger who would preside over the further dismantling of our intelligence community. Bill Barr has essentially turned the Department of Justice into a political arm of the Trump White House, exonerating loyalists and threatening critics. And speaking of intelligence: > **[Trump Gives Attorney General Sweeping Power in Review of 2016 Campaign...](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/23/us/politics/trump-barr-intelligence.html)** > > In a directive, the president ordered the intelligence agencies to cooperate with the review and gave the attorney general the authority to unilaterally declassify their documents. > [@](#): > > Trump Gives Attorney General Sweeping Power in Review of 2016 Campaign Inquiry He is turning the federal workforce into a bureaucracy based on fealty to the president rather than public service: > **[Trump’s original pick to lead OPM is now a senior agency adviser](https://federalnewsnetwork.com/people/2020/04/trumps-original-pick-to-lead-opm-is-now-a-senior-agency-adviser/)** > > George Nesterczuk, the president's first pick to lead the Office of Personnel Management, is returning to the agency as an adviser to the acting director. Nesterczuk withdrew his nomination from Senate consideration nearly three years ago. > **[Forget Competence, Trump Wants Loyalty - The Bulwark](https://www.thebulwark.com/forget-competence-trump-wants-loyalty/)** > > The president’s cronies want to hunt out anyone in government who won’t kowtow to him. > [@](#): > > McEntee has initiated a Never Trump witch hunt. According to Politico, he held a meeting on February 20 “with White House liaisons of Cabinet departments where he asked officials to find Trump appointees who may be anti-Trump, according to an administration official familiar with the meeting.” He also reportedly “told them that PPO was going to take a look at all appointees at some point and re-vet them to see if they’ve been disloyal in any way.” While dramatic changes are “likely to be delayed until after November,” McEntee reportedly warned the agencies “to stop moving around officials who are viewed as anti-Trump to other agencies.” And of course this: [https://www.axios.com/trump-donor-usps-postmaster-general-d51c2de2-ac31-44be-8929-b1d9d4853c81.html](https://www.axios.com/trump-donor-usps-postmaster-general-d51c2de2-ac31-44be-8929-b1d9d4853c81.html) > [@](#): > > Between the lines, per the Post: “DeJoy will be the first postmaster general in two decades who did not rise through the agency’s ranks. He would have to navigate a financially fraught agency while also working with its powerful labor unions, among the last public sector unions left with significant clout in contract negotiations with the government.” In other words, hire the guy who knows absolutely nothing about the post office, but who probably knows how to cut staff. Think COVID-19 response: the post office version. Just in time to fuck up mail-in voting. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2020, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/43235 "2020-05-07T20:11:01Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > DOJ just dropped all charges against Mike Flynn. I’m not a legal scholar, by any means, but is the DOJ basically saying here that they can’t prove a case against a man who admitted to the crime in court? ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2020, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/43236 "2020-05-07T20:19:38Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > I’m not a legal scholar, by any means, but is the DOJ basically saying here that they can’t prove a case against a man who admitted to the crime in court? You’ve got it right. Truly, this is just nuts. The DOJ can’t drop charges that were already adjudicated. I’ll bet Judge Sullivan is blowing a gasket about now. Barr can move to drop the case, but I see no compelling reason for Judge Sullivan to grant that motion. DOJ is pretending that agents misleading suspects during interviews/interrogations is a novel thing. It’s perfectly legal, done all the time. It’s law enforcement in action. Any cop/lawyer/judge knows this. Presumably someone qualified to be the National Security Advisor knows it, too. The best way to avoid being charged with lying to the FBI? Don’t fucking lie to the FBI. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2020, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/43237 "2020-05-07T20:41:01Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > That’s not how it works. The conviction occurs at the time the plea is accepted, just as a guilty verdict is rendered by a jury even if sentencing has not yet taken place. IANAL, but I thought it wasn’t actually in the books as conviction until the initial sentencing phase is finished. I recall that Ken Lay, of Enron fame, was initially convicted but died before sentencing and thus died with a clean record - or was the rag that I read at the time bullshitting me? ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2020, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/43238 "2020-05-07T20:57:02Z")
Without reviewing the particulars of what happened in the Lay case, I can’t say procedurally what happened there. But procedure was my bailiwick in my courtroom years. Prosecutors can drop charges up to the time that a judge accepts a plea or a jury renders a verdict. At that point, the defendant is lawfully convicted, even though sentencing is commonly delayed to allow the probation department to submit a sentencing recommendation, as well as the prosecutors and defense attorneys. If you’ve ever watched a judge take a plea, you’ll appreciate the litany of questions they ask to ensure the plea was made freely, voluntarily, not under the influence of drugs/alcohol, not under duress and yada yada yada. In high profile cases, judges take even more care to safeguard the conviction. There’s probably a transcript of Sullivan taking Flynn’s plea and you can see how involved the process is. In another thread I posted this story which clarifies the status of things: [DOJ moves to drop the case against Flynn](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia-flynn/u-s-justice-department-moves-to-drop-case-against-trump-ex-adviser-flynn-idUSKBN22J317). (Reuters) Note that DOJ is _moving the court_ to drop the charges. DOJ no longer has jurisdiction to do this unilaterally. Because a plea was entered and accepted. Even though sentencing has not yet occurred. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2020, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/43239 "2020-05-07T21:17:54Z")
Missed the edit window: If the judge had allowed Flynn to withdraw his plea, then yes – the DOJ would again have the authority to drop the charges, and that’s what I thought had happened. So I did a search to see when the motion was heard, because I wasn’t aware it had been. Seemed like it would be big news if Judge Sullivan had permitted a plea withdrawal after the comments he made at the prior sentencing hearing that got continued in December. There are now 3 pending motions before Judge Sullivan: 1) Flynn’s motion to withdraw his plea; 2) Van Grack’s motion to withdraw as counsel for the DOJ in the Flynn case; and 3) DOJ’s motion to drop the charges. I don’t believe a date has been set for hearing these motions, but I’ll bet there will be soon – and they’ll all be heard on the same day. Barr better send someone besides Van Grack to argue the DOJ’s motion. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2020, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/43240 "2020-05-07T23:15:37Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > [A White House valet tests positive.](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trump-valet-tests-positive-coronavirus_n_5eb423c7c5b6526942a350cb) I wish the valet the best. I hope he passed it on to only one person, and that individual one self doses on hydroxychloroquine. I would never say I wish ill to anyone, but I dearly hope that valet licks all the food before he serves it. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2020, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/43241 "2020-05-07T23:39:10Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > [A White House valet tests positive.](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trump-valet-tests-positive-coronavirus_n_5eb423c7c5b6526942a350cb) I wish the valet the best. I hope he passed it on to only one person, and that individual one self doses on hydroxychloroquine. I hope he passes it to _two_ persons. Best-case scenario for the country: Chump and Pence both catch and die from Covid-19, then Pelosi becomes president. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2020, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/43242 "2020-05-07T23:52:22Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > Without reviewing the particulars of what happened in the Lay case, I can’t say procedurally what happened there. But procedure was my bailiwick in my courtroom years. > > Prosecutors can drop charges up to the time that a judge accepts a plea or a jury renders a verdict. At that point, the defendant is lawfully convicted, even though sentencing is commonly delayed to allow the probation department to submit a sentencing recommendation, as well as the prosecutors and defense attorneys. > > If you’ve ever watched a judge take a plea, you’ll appreciate the litany of questions they ask to ensure the plea was made freely, voluntarily, not under the influence of drugs/alcohol, not under duress and yada yada yada. In high profile cases, judges take even more care to safeguard the conviction. There’s probably a transcript of Sullivan taking Flynn’s plea and you can see how involved the process is. > > In another thread I posted this story which clarifies the status of things: [DOJ moves to drop the case against Flynn](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia-flynn/u-s-justice-department-moves-to-drop-case-against-trump-ex-adviser-flynn-idUSKBN22J317). (Reuters) > > Note that DOJ is _moving the court_ to drop the charges. DOJ no longer has jurisdiction to do this unilaterally. Because a plea was entered and accepted. Even though sentencing has not yet occurred. Thanks for the insights! ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2020, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/43243 "2020-05-08T00:17:01Z")
> [@MindsEye\_Watering](#): > > [Trump’s personal valet tests positive for Covid-19.](https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/07/politics/trump-valet-tests-positive-covid-19/index.html) > > **Heh.** Everything I know about valets I learned from Downton Abbey where the guy helps His Lordship dress, shaves him, combs his hair, ties his tie, and other personal (ewww!) tasks. What are the duties of the poor bastard assigned to be trump’s personal valet? ---
**Author:** ![MindsEye\_Watering](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mindseye_watering/32/3619_2.png) [@MindsEye\_Watering](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MindsEye_Watering)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2020, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/43244 "2020-05-08T00:20:31Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2020, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/43245 "2020-05-08T00:32:19Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Everything I know about valets I learned from Downton Abbey where the guy helps His Lordship dress, shaves him, combs his hair, ties his tie, and other personal (ewww!) tasks. What are the duties of the poor bastard assigned to be trump’s personal valet? Fake tan, trowel. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2020, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/43246 "2020-05-08T00:45:19Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Everything I know about valets I learned from Downton Abbey where the guy helps His Lordship dress, shaves him, combs his hair, ties his tie, and other personal (ewww!) tasks. What are the duties of the poor bastard assigned to be trump’s personal valet? Where would a Navy SEAL have learned how to deal with that dead rodent Trump wears on his head? How could he not say “Sir, please purchase a suit that FITS. And may I shorten your necktie?” Also, extensive reading of Wodehouse and Sayers taught me that the proper term for a valet is “gentleman’s gentleman.” God knows no one has EVER called Trump a “gentleman.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=2161) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=2163)