# The Trump Administration: A Clusterfuck in the Making **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 7, 2016, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070 "2016-12-07T00:25:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2204
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2020, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/44067 "2020-06-02T13:37:57Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > I hope you’re right about them catching on. > > I argued this on Twitter today. I got a lot of flack from followers I believe to be genuine American resisters, about ‘not giving in’ and similar expressions of defiance—as if protesting after dark were necessary to the cause of justice. > > I didn’t encounter any arguments to that effect that I found convincing. The right to peacefully assemble and redress your grievances to the government does not end when the sun goes down. That said, what you have a right to do, and what is wise to do, are not always the same thing. > [@asahi](#): > > IIRC, rioting in DC is a federal crime. This statute was applied during the inauguration protests. No doubt will be used again, sweeping up people who thought they would check out a peaceful protest on a Monday night and find themselves facing federal felony charges the next morning by being in the wrong place at the wrong time. > > Sure, they might get acquitted, but they might go bankrupt paying attorneys to get the charges dropped. Or they may beaten, broken, or even killed by zealous law enforcement. They may lose their jobs, even their families, over a federal indictment, even if it was dropped before ever going to trial. > [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > I thought Trump was against American carnage? > > Now, I get it that this administration does not much care for limits and such. Still, are there not limits on what police/soldiers can do to protesters? The insurrection act kind of evokes an insurrection. Peaceful protesters ain’t that, so how is it kosher to gas them and fire rubber bullets as if it is a riot? If you fire tear gas and rubber bullets, then it becomes a riot, which justifies firing tear gas and rubber bullets. Only a temporal linerealist would insist on relating cause and effect. > [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > How many times has he gone to church (or pretended to go to church) since he took office? How many times did he go to church in the prior decades (aside from his weddings)? Are you counting golf? > [@galen\_ubal](#): > > I’m kinda wondering if that may not be a coincidence. I mean, the fire started in the basement, and it seems kind of odd that someone would break into a church, go down to the basement, and start the fire there. I don’t think the standard vandals would go to that much trouble. Many buildings have basement windows at the ground level. Easier to break one of those windows and toss in some fire and accelerant than the first floor. > [@Spoons](#): > > “In my photo-op in front of the church, I wanna hold up a Bible. Do we have a Bible?” > > "No, Mr. President. We do have _The Poky Little Puppy_, _Green Eggs and Ham_, _The Happy Hooker_ by Xaviera Hollander, and _The Idiot’s Guide to the U.S. Constitution_. Would any of those do? > > “No, they’re not a Bible. And they’re not thick enough. Find something thick that we can wrap in black paper, dammit!” > > “How about this, Mr. President? It’s a copy of _The Stand_ by Stephen King. It’s the edited version, but it does come in hardback, and is thick enough, and we could wrap it in black paper. I think that Mr. Obama left it behind when he left the White House” > > “Good enough. Do it. Make the wrapping tight, so I don’t have to touch any part that that Kenyan Muslim did.” > > “Umm … Mr. President, doesn’t it strike you as ironic that even if it’s wrapped in black paper to make it look like a Bible, you’ll be holding up a book that is about the apocalypse as predicted in the Bible’s Book of Revelations, in front of a Christian church?” > > “Makes it more like a Bible, then. Do it and I’ll use it!” > > I made all this up, but it seems perfectly plausible. Sadly. No, not plausible at all. You had Trump speaking in coherent and complete sentences. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2020, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/44068 "2020-06-02T14:42:42Z")
We know Trump screams “TREASON!!!” about anyone who criticizes him. That’s old news. We know that many people who aren’t Trump call “TREASON!!!” over a lot of things that Trump has done. That’s old news. Many of us know that “treason” is the only actual criminal crime defined in the Constitution, where it is defined very specifically and very narrowly.(\*) > [@Article III](#): > > Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. Okay, now to the point: Trump is threatening to invoke the Insurrection Act to send troops to the states. The Act, as mentioned in the news, requires that governors request the president to do so before troops may be sent. If Trump sends the military into the states against the wishes of the governors, is he in fact “levying War against them”? **If Trump sends the military into the states to quell the protests against the wishes of the governors, is he in fact committing literal treason?** (\*) Technicality: [Wikipedia points out that the definition of treason is not that simple: The Constitution doesn’t actually make treason a crime.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treason#United_States) Rather, it limits and restricts the definition of the crime that Congress may legislate if they choose. Congress has in fact legislated the crime of Treason accordingly. [We saw it with our own eyes: Trump wants to go to war against America](https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/06/01/we-saw-it-with-our-own-eyes-trump-wants-go-war-against-america/), Jennifer Rubin, _Washington Post_, June 1, 2020. > [@Jennifer Rubin](#): > > … any attempt to use the military against civilians in this fashion would almost certainly be illegal and unconstitutional. Even under the Insurrection Act, federal troops would have to be invited into the states to suppress an actual rebellion. For Trump, the threat of force, however unrealistic, is his go-to move when his manliness is called into question — as it was when he fled to the bunker at the White House over the weekend. > > If anyone in America had any doubt as to his intentions — to foment violence, to increase racial animosity, to glorify himself at the expense of the national good — Tuesday’s events should silence them. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2020, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/44069 "2020-06-02T14:50:19Z")
> [@solost](#): > > … I think teargassing a crowd of peaceful protesters to make way for a walk to the church to set up a phony, hollow photo-op while displaying a bible upside-down is the perfect symbol of his presidency. Apparently, the genius behind this brainstorm was Hope Hicks. It’s been roundly denounced in the media\*, and by the bishop in charge of the church. What are the chances Hope gets fired? Given her age, gender and cup size I’d say: practically zero. \*Anybody want to take one for the team and see how Fox is spinning the whole bible/photo op debacle? ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2020, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/44070 "2020-06-02T15:03:17Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > What are the chances Hope gets fired? Given her age, gender and cup size I’d say: practically zero. Don’t forget willing to [steam his pants](https://www.newsweek.com/trump-made-hope-hicks-steam-his-pants-while-he-was-wearing-them-729711) (not a euphemism) while he wears them. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2020, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/44071 "2020-06-02T15:33:08Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > Apparently, the genius behind this brainstorm was Hope Hicks. It’s been roundly denounced in the media\*, and by the bishop in charge of the church. What are the chances Hope gets fired? Given her age, gender and cup size I’d say: practically zero. > > \*Anybody want to take one for the team and see how Fox is spinning the whole bible/photo op debacle? This is the gist of the story they are running: “But on Tuesday morning, Park Police sources told WTOP that this was not the case, arguing that the protesters were not all peaceful, that tear gas was not used, and that officers did not know of Trump’s visit to the house of worship” ---
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2020, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/44072 "2020-06-02T15:40:55Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > \*Anybody want to take one for the team and see how Fox is spinning the whole bible/photo op debacle? I checked [foxnews.com](http://foxnews.com) a couple hours ago just out of curiosity to see how they’d spin it. The title of an article at the time spun it in terms of Rubio defending Trump’s action, but the content of the article was surprisingly balanced, for Fox News anyway: _**[Rubio defends Trump after criticism over St. John’s ‘photo op’](https://www.foxnews.com/politics/rubio-defends-trump-after-criticism-over-st-johns-photo-op)**_ However, now there’s an article with a much more Fox-like spin, claiming the park police did what they did because there was crowd violence, not at Trump’s command. And they didn’t even use any nasty old tear gas, it was just smoke canisters without irritants: _**[Park Police say DC protesters cleared because they attacked cops, not because of Trump church visit: report](https://www.foxnews.com/politics/dc-protesters-trump-church-visit)**_ ---
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2020, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/44073 "2020-06-02T15:48:34Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > This is the gist of the story they are running: > > “But on Tuesday morning, Park Police sources told WTOP that this was not the case, arguing that the protesters were not all peaceful, that tear gas was not used, and that officers did not know of Trump’s visit to the house of worship” Ninja’d by manson1972 🙂 Anyway, what an amazing coincidence that park police had to quell the violent uprising just before Trump and his henchmen took their little photo op walk. I’m sure if the protesters hadn’t been conveniently cleared, Trump and co. would have just shoved through the crowd to get to the church :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2020, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/44074 "2020-06-02T16:00:55Z")
> [@solost](#): > > Ninja’d by manson1972 🙂 > > Anyway, what an amazing coincidence that park police had to quell the violent uprising just before Trump and his henchmen took their little photo op walk. I’m sure if the protesters hadn’t been conveniently cleared, Trump and co. would have just shoved through the crowd to get to the church :rolleyes: This “coincidence” is such a transparent pathetic lie that I’m sure that nobody with an ounce of intelligence or common sense would ever… Sorry what? Fox News? Never mind. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2020, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/44075 "2020-06-02T16:32:09Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > This “coincidence” is such a transparent pathetic lie that I’m sure that nobody with an ounce of intelligence or common sense would ever… > > Sorry what? Fox News? That’s cute. You think they actually bought it? They’ve sufficient intelligent and sense not to fall for it. And that goes for a depressing proportion of their viewers. Principles, moral rectitude, and basic decency, on the other hand… ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2020, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/44076 "2020-06-02T16:35:17Z")
The Christian Nationalists certainly loved it. They want a Strong Man with the Sword of Vengeance to restore the white race to their rightful place of superiority. They absolutely LOVED to see Trump waving a bible in front of a church. They simply don’t care if he reads the bible, or ever goes in a church. These things are not important to the Christian Nationalists. Wielding power over the inferiors is the point for them. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2020, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/44077 "2020-06-02T16:37:22Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Trump opposes hurting his supporters, who are the only people he views as actually American. > > Anyone who is NOT 100% supporting him and kissing his ass are not American and/or traitors committing treason and fair game. I can’t help thinking that the Syrian civil war started after Assad’s forces machine-gunned a crowd of protesters. Look at them now. Does it matter what side anyone was on when it all started? The whole place is in ruins, though Assad continues to live in luxury. Great fucking outcome. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2020, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/44078 "2020-06-02T16:38:15Z")
> [@solost](#): > > I checked [foxnews.com](http://foxnews.com) a couple hours ago just out of curiosity to see how they’d spin it. The title of an article at the time spun it in terms of Rubio defending Trump’s action, but the content of the article was surprisingly balanced, for Fox News anyway: > _**[Rubio defends Trump after criticism over St. John’s ‘photo op’](https://www.foxnews.com/politics/rubio-defends-trump-after-criticism-over-st-johns-photo-op)**_ > > However, now there’s an article with a much more Fox-like spin, claiming the park police did what they did because there was crowd violence, not at Trump’s command. And they didn’t even use any nasty old tear gas, it was just smoke canisters without irritants: > _**[Park Police say DC protesters cleared because they attacked cops, not because of Trump church visit: report](https://www.foxnews.com/politics/dc-protesters-trump-church-visit)**_ Which is all complete bullshit, of course. Anyone watching CNN could see that the relatively small crowd in the park was completely non-threatening. Police moved in without any provocation at all. A more conspiracy minded person might think that the police charge was suspiciously timed, coming as it did just minutes before Trump’s little law and order speech. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2020, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/44079 "2020-06-02T16:41:25Z")
The President has acted boldly and forcefully. All the members of Antifas Central Committee have been arrested. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2020, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/44080 "2020-06-02T16:41:55Z")
It was absolutely timed. Trump wanted the sounds of war behind his speech, so his supporters could jizz in their pants. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2020, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/44081 "2020-06-02T16:43:01Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > The President has acted boldly and forcefully. All the members of Antifas Central Committee have been arrested. That would be Biden and Pelosi, correct? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2020, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/44082 "2020-06-02T16:54:48Z")
A matter of note: several of the most virulent leaders of Antifas have been discovered to have membership on white supremacist message boards, as part of their campaign of disinformation and extremist agitation. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2020, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/44083 "2020-06-02T16:57:22Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > The Christian Nationalists certainly loved it. They want a Strong Man with the Sword of Vengeance to restore the white race to their rightful place of superiority. > > They absolutely LOVED to see Trump waving a bible in front of a church. They simply don’t care if he reads the bible, or ever goes in a church. These things are not important to the Christian Nationalists. Wielding power over the inferiors is the point for them. But he wasn’t waving it in front of the church. He was just holding it up and showing it to people as if it was something he was trying to hock on an infomercial. Believers when they hold the bible tend to hold it close to their body, or maybe, if they’re a preacher, gesture with it to emphasize their message. With Trump it was clear that he had no idea what it was and what to do with it. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2020, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/44084 "2020-06-02T17:03:29Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > But he wasn’t waving it in front of the church. He was just holding it up and showing it to people as if it was something he was trying to hock on an infomercial. Believers when they hold the bible tend to hold it close to their body, or maybe, if they’re a preacher, gesture with it to emphasize their message. **With Trump it was clear that he had no idea what it was and what to do with it**. I loved how two or three times he actually looked at it with a “what the hell is this?” look on his face. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2020, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/44085 "2020-06-02T17:08:19Z")
> [@solost](#): > > Reporter: “Is that your bible?” > > Trump: “It’s ‘a’ bible.” > > \ I agree with your whole post, but I just can’t stop wondering: Why was _this_ the first time in his life he decided not to lie? ---
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2020, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/44086 "2020-06-02T17:13:38Z")
[Washington Post article](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/inside-the-push-to-tear-gas-protesters-ahead-of-a-trump-photo-op/2020/06/01/4b0f7b50-a46c-11ea-bb20-ebf0921f3bbd_story.html) about the decision to do the church “photo-op”. You know, I’m again struck by the idea that maybe a good strategy to counter the Trump administration is to laugh at him. I posted a thread on this a while back. While I realize there’s nothing funny about what’s happening right now, it’s clear from the article (and countless other examples) that Trump only cares about how things look, and superficially at that. He doesn’t care about actually doing anything, only the optics. Hence, stupidly conceived stunts like this. So what do you do with someone who only cares about his image, is hopelessly vain, and whose support derives from a desperately curated image? I say again - we should laugh at him. Thousands of people - in person and online - pointing and laughing. Over a hundred thousand people dead from Covid-19, police effectively lynching people, and Trump has people forcibly moved so he can wave a Bible at a church? If it wasn’t so sad it would be hilarious. So I say treat it with the derision it merits. Laugh at him. Trump is a buffoon. He may even deserve our pity. I point and laugh at the weak, sad man. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=2203) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=2205)