# The Trump Administration: A Clusterfuck in the Making **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 7, 2016, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070 "2016-12-07T00:25:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 236
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/4701 "2017-05-16T16:27:03Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > That’s a lie. Can you cite any post of mine that claimed that he “didn’t disclose any information”? > > My claim (still valid) is that WaPo story is fake. WaPo story is about Trump improperly disclosing classified information. Go complain to your Russian handlers, you treasonous little shit. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/4702 "2017-05-16T16:28:15Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > That’s a lie. Can you cite any post of mine that claimed that he “didn’t disclose any information”? > > My claim (still valid) is that WaPo story is fake. WaPo story is about Trump improperly disclosing classified information. You’re conflating improperly and illegally. The disclosure went through none of the proper channels, and it wasn’t Trump’s to give. He’s put an intelligence asset at risk, for no reason other than braggadocio. Nothing Trump has tweeted has contradicted the WaPo/NYT/Reuters/ **RT** /etc. story, unless you’re trying to put weasel words in Trump’s tiny little fingers. Fucking rodent… ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c57346/32.png) [@Little\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Pig)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/4703 "2017-05-16T16:31:14Z")
On a lighter note, you can [Pay Trump Bribes Here](http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/arts/miranda/la-et-cam-robin-bell-projections-20170516-story.html). ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/4704 "2017-05-16T16:36:30Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > How about the fact that McMaster just had a presser where he verified that the WaPo story was real, it was just the “premise” that was incorrect? 17 minutes and not one denial. > > Otoh, he did let us know: > > Trump did it on the spur of the moment. > Trump likely did not know source of info. > > Could, would not deny: > > Trump gave them classified info > Trump named the city where the intel came from McMaster: "In the context of that discussion, what the President discussed with the Foreign Minister was wholly appropriate to that conversation and is consistent with the routine sharing of information between the President and any leaders with whom he’s engaged… That conversation was wholly appropriate with what the expectations are of our intelligence partners. … I was in the room. The Secretary of State was in the room, as you know. Dina Powell was in the room. And none of us felt that this conversation was inappropriate." ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/4705 "2017-05-16T16:41:54Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > That conversation was wholly appropriate with what the expectations are of our intelligence partners. Cite for that line of bullshit? Everything I’ve read of intelligence sharing agreements states information isn’t to be shared with third parties without the originator’s permission. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/4706 "2017-05-16T16:44:04Z")
He also said, “I would characterize the Washington Post story as false.” ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/4707 "2017-05-16T16:44:52Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > Cite for that line of bullshit? Everything I’ve read of intelligence sharing agreements states information isn’t to be shared with third parties without the originator’s permission. What I posted was a direct quote from McMaster’s press conference today. As well as: “I want to make clear to everyone that the President in no way compromised any sources or methods in the course of this conversation.” ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/4708 "2017-05-16T16:46:20Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > He also said, “I would characterize the Washington Post story as false.” And that _makes_ it false? I would characterize Trump as a truly fine person. Doesn’t change the truth about him. ---
**Author:** ![cuauhtemoc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecb155/32.png) [@cuauhtemoc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cuauhtemoc)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/4709 "2017-05-16T17:00:44Z")
Wouldn’t McMaster pretty much _have_ to say that? When a president messes up real bad, what does the NSA judge to be in the best interest of national security? I’d think he has to deny it no matter what, right? What is he supposed to say? “Yes, the president has compromised us pretty badly here, but he’s very sorry and promises not to do it again.” McMaster’s job isn’t necessarily to tell the truth. Using him as a cite that nothing improper happened is pretty dubious, in my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/4710 "2017-05-16T17:00:54Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Go complain to your Russian handlers, you treasonous little shit. Hey, if he gets to sleep with Keri Russell, more power to him. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/4711 "2017-05-16T17:02:06Z")
The take from Eliot A. Cohen, American political scientist. Former counselor in the United States Department of State under Condoleezza Rice. Republican. > **[The Terrible Cost of Trump's Disclosures to the Russians](https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/05/the-terrible-cost-of-trumps-disclosures/526818/)** > > The consequences of the president’s reported divulgence of top-secret codeword information to the Russians are only beginning. > [@](#): > > In the wake of the Post story, the White House—hoping, presumably, to avoid another Comey-firing publicity debacle—trotted out three reasonably sane, responsible, experienced adults to vouch for the President’s story. Secretary of State Rex Tillerson, Deputy National Security Adviser Dina Powell, and National Security Adviser Lieutenant General H. R. McMaster made public statements calling the story false, giving different variants of this argument: The President did not disclose sources and methods for intelligence gathering, or future military operations. > > Well, of course not. That is not what the Post said in its story: It said that he divulged intelligence. And since it seems likely that the Russians captured all of the conversation—they were allowed to bring their electronics into the room, including the only video cameras, the American press having been excluded—they undoubtedly got all of it. And you bet that their analysts are even now chuckling as they figure out what the sources were. > > But that is not the half of it. Tillerson casually said of Trump in an interview on Meet the Press on Sunday “I have to earn his confidence every day.” One does not earn Donald Trump’s confidence by calmly conveying to him some unpleasant but essential truths. Rather, one earns his confidence by truckling to him, and by lying to everyone else. Now, what Tillerson, Powell, and McMaster said are not quite lies, but they are the kind of parsed half truths that are as bad, and in some cases worse. This is how one’s reputation for veracity is infected by the virulent moral bacteria that cover Donald Trump. Friends will watch, pained and incredulous, as they realize that one simply cannot assume that anything these senior subordinates of the president say is the truth. And having stretched, manipulated, or artfully misrepresented the truth once, these officials will do it again and again. They will be particularly surprised when they learn that most people assume that as trusted subordinates of the president, they lie not as colorfully as he does, but just as routinely. Perhaps the worst will be the moment when these high officials can no longer recognize their own characters for what they once were. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/4712 "2017-05-16T17:07:38Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > What I posted was a direct quote from McMaster’s press conference today. As well as: > > “I want to make clear to everyone that the President in no way compromised any sources or methods in the course of this conversation.” So, McMaster is claiming that they got permission from the foreign government that the intel originally came from before sharing it? ---
**Author:** ![Paranoid\_Randroid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/paranoid_randroid/32/18_2.png) [@Paranoid\_Randroid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paranoid_Randroid)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/4713 "2017-05-16T17:09:07Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > What I posted was a direct quote from McMaster’s press conference today. As well as: > > “I want to make clear to everyone that the President in no way compromised any sources or methods in the course of this conversation.” Which is amusing, because no one was accusing Trump of leaking sources or methods. Honestly, nothing in McMaster’s statements contradicts the substance of the allegations – of course he would say nothing was inappropriate; that’s a matter of opinion, after all. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/4714 "2017-05-16T17:12:14Z")
> [@Paranoid\_Randroid](#): > > Which is amusing, because no one was accusing Trump of leaking sources or methods. Honestly, nothing in McMaster’s statements contradicts the substance of the allegations – of course he would say nothing was inappropriate; that’s a matter of opinion, after all. I see. So “anonymous sources” say it was inappropriate. The National Security Advisor, Secretary of State and the Deputy National Security advisor who were present say it was appropriate. You go with “anonymous sources”. Of course. ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/4715 "2017-05-16T17:12:23Z")
> [@Little\_Pig](#): > > On a lighter note, you can [Pay Trump Bribes Here](http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/arts/miranda/la-et-cam-robin-bell-projections-20170516-story.html). From a practical standpoint, I really like this. She’s not physically blocking anyone’s way nor is she “getting in someone’s face.” She’s not causing any property damage. It’s a very smart way to put your message out there. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/4716 "2017-05-16T17:14:07Z")
> [@Paranoid\_Randroid](#): > > Which is amusing, because no one was accusing Trump of leaking sources or methods. Other than giving the Russians enough information to suss out the sources themselves. Say, didn’t comrade **Okra** have a big problem with Condoleezza Rice supposedly giving out enough details that could lead to confidential information being sussed out? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c57346/32.png) [@Little\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Pig)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/4717 "2017-05-16T17:16:56Z")
In lighter news, [Oregon man carries mother’s severed head](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/05/16/oregon-man-carries-mothers-severed-head-into-a-grocery-then-stabs-a-clerk-police-say/?utm_term=.d10790ab7c1f) into grocery, stabs clerk. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/4718 "2017-05-16T17:18:19Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > I see. So “anonymous sources” say it was inappropriate. The National Security Advisor, Secretary of State and the Deputy National Security advisor who were present say it was appropriate. > > You go with “anonymous sources”. Of course. You might as well give it up. Kayleigh McEnany will not sleep with you, give you a blowjob or lift the restraining order no matter how much you love Trump. Do you seriously believe any of those people will contradict anything The Walking Yam says? Trump contradicts staff, not the other way around. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/4719 "2017-05-16T17:18:41Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > What I posted was a direct quote from McMaster’s press conference today. As well as: > > “I want to make clear to everyone that the President in no way compromised any sources or methods in the course of this conversation.” Pardon me for not swallowing everything coming out of this administration. Do they let you shower before you leave, or do you just take the money from the nightstand on your way out the door? ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/4720 "2017-05-16T17:19:22Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Trump contradicts staff, not the other way around. Except in Soviet Russia. 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=235) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=237)