# The Trump Administration: A Clusterfuck in the Making **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 7, 2016, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070 "2016-12-07T00:25:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 238
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/4741 "2017-05-16T18:25:45Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > After which the leftist talking points immediately changed to “he’s lying”. Because he definitely was NOT lying yesterday. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/4742 "2017-05-16T18:31:01Z")
Actually, it appears MacMaster isn’t actually denying that Trump revealed information that was, until that moment, classified. He’s just saying Trump made the right decision to share that information with the Russians. “In the context of that discussion, what the president discussed with the foreign minister was wholly appropriate to that conversation and is consistent with the routine sharing of information between the president and any leaders with whom he’s engaged, … It is wholly appropriate for the president to share whatever information he thinks is necessary to advance the security of the American people. That’s what he did.” So he’s just saying it was relevant to the conversation, and is the kind of information that is often shared with other countries. And he’s defending Trump’s decision to share the information in this meeting. But this does not contradict the central claim of the Washington Post story, which is that Trump shared intelligence which was, up to that moment, classified. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/4743 "2017-05-16T18:34:13Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > Actually, it appears MacMaster isn’t actually denying that Trump revealed information that was, until that moment, classified. He’s just saying Trump made the right decision to share that information with the Russians. > > “In the context of that discussion, what the president discussed with the foreign minister was wholly appropriate to that conversation and is consistent with the routine sharing of information between the president and any leaders with whom he’s engaged, … It is wholly appropriate for the president to share whatever information he thinks is necessary to advance the security of the American people. That’s what he did.” > > So he’s just saying it was relevant to the conversation, and is the kind of information that is often shared with other countries. And he’s defending Trump’s decision to share the information in this meeting. But this does not contradict the central claim of the Washington Post story, which is that Trump shared intelligence which was, up to that moment, classified. No. The “central claim” of the WaPo story was that such sharing (which is a regular thing that happens when US officials talk to foreign representatives) was in this case inappropriate. Which McMaster, Powell, and Tillerson denied unequivocally. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/4744 "2017-05-16T18:37:12Z")
The take from Leon Panetta: > [@](#): > > “Sure, obviously, presidents can do whatever they want. But what is the damage? The damage is that this country (sharing the intel) may cut off any kind of intelligence provided to the United States on very sensitive issues that relate to the national security of this country.” > [@](#): > > “The President needs to have some grown-ups around him that make very clear what the lines are here (Trump) cannot just do or say or speak whatever the hell he wants. That’s just irresponsible.” I especially agree with him here: > [@](#): > > “If he continues to operate in this way, there are serious questions about the credibility of the office and the trust the American people can have in this presidency.” ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/4745 "2017-05-16T18:39:05Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > NY Times reporting that the source of the intel was Israel. > > [https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/05/16/world/middleeast/israel-trump-classified-intelligence-russia.html](https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/05/16/world/middleeast/israel-trump-classified-intelligence-russia.html) I’m glad, now Bibi can wail and gnash his teeth ruing the day that Obama left office. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/4746 "2017-05-16T18:41:06Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > No. The “central claim” of the WaPo story was that such sharing (which is a regular thing that happens when US officials talk to foreign representatives) was in this case inappropriate. Which McMaster, Powell, and Tillerson denied unequivocally. And how does the foreign government which supplied us with that intel under the condition that we keep it to ourselves feel about it? Do you think that they will feel it is appropriate? Do you think that they will continue to share intel with us? How much damage did trump do to our credibility and information gathering capabilities with his little brag? You keep getting hung up on this “not illegal” thing, which is not what we are saying. We are saying that his actions harmed our country, to which you do not disagree, you just say, “but, he harmed our country legally.” ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/4747 "2017-05-16T18:47:17Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > And how does the foreign government which supplied us with that intel under the condition that we keep it to ourselves feel about it? > > Do you think that they will feel it is appropriate? Do you think that they will continue to share intel with us? Who is more qualified to figure that out. Sec. of State and National Security Advisor or WaPo and its “anonymous sources”? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/4748 "2017-05-16T18:51:39Z")
And what exactly are Trump’s people going to say? “Yes, Trump flapped his lips, and damaged the credibility of our Intel services. Now countries are less likely to share information with us.” No, their job at this point is to contain the damage as much as possible. By lying out of their asses, if necessary. In some ways, I don’t blame them for doing this. They are trying their best to limit the damage that the idiot, loose-lipped, child-man of a president just created. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/4749 "2017-05-16T18:53:15Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Who did he steal it from? The phrase was “Clinton derangement syndrome” and was in reference to how Clinton (Bill) could do no wrong in the eyes of the card-carrying liberals in Eliteville. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/4750 "2017-05-16T19:05:18Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > The take from Leon Panetta: > … > > > [@](#): > > > > "The President needs to have some grown-ups around him … Yeah, good luck with that. He seems to prefer R-sycophants, and the few adult Rs that are in DC get pushed aside. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/4751 "2017-05-16T19:05:21Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Who is more qualified to figure that out. Sec. of State and National Security Advisor or WaPo and its “anonymous sources”? None of the above, actually, that would be the foreign govt (Israel is what I hear) to figure out. The sec of state and the NSA are making excuses for trump’s blunder, even they admit that there was no conversation or analysis beforehand, but that trump just told the russians with no warning to either of them, or to our intelligence agencies, and certainly not to the Israeli agencies that will no longer be supplying us with intel. WaPo just reported on it. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/4752 "2017-05-16T19:06:53Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Who is more qualified to figure that out. Sec. of State and National Security Advisor or WaPo and its “anonymous sources”? The Russian Oil CEO or the guy who replaced the Russian General - is there a third option? Can we just ask Putin what happened? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/4753 "2017-05-16T19:10:03Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Who is more qualified to figure that out. Sec. of State and National Security Advisor or WaPo and its “anonymous sources”? As noted, you are relying in his immediate opinion, not what others involved in intelligence reported. And we should remember that in the Watergate scandal Deep Throat was found later to be the number 2 FBI man Mark Felt. You can try to dismiss the WaPo anonymous sources, but history is not on your side. ---
**Author:** ![Crybaby\_Boobie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crybaby_boobie/32/545_2.png) [@Crybaby\_Boobie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crybaby_Boobie)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/4754 "2017-05-16T19:40:24Z")
[https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/16/us/white-house-staff.html?\_r=0](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/16/us/white-house-staff.html?_r=0) > [@](#): > > In private, three administration officials conceded that they could not publicly articulate their most compelling — and honest — defense of the president: that Mr. Trump, a hasty and indifferent reader of printed briefing materials, **simply did not possess the interest or knowledge of the granular details of intelligence gathering** to leak specific sources and methods of intelligence gathering that would do harm to United States allies. Yeah, that’s not a reassuring defense at all. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/4755 "2017-05-16T19:56:26Z")
> [@Crybaby\_Boobie](#): > > [https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/16/us/white-house-staff.html?\_r=0](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/16/us/white-house-staff.html?_r=0) > > Yeah, that’s not a reassuring defense at all. So they’re saying he’s too stupid to fuck up? Not so sure. I think he’s too stupid to fuck up deliberately and intentionally, but he’s plenty stupid enough to do it unintentionally while \*\*intending \*\*to impress his Russian friends with how important he is. ---
**Author:** ![Crybaby\_Boobie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crybaby_boobie/32/545_2.png) [@Crybaby\_Boobie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crybaby_Boobie)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/4756 "2017-05-16T20:01:44Z")
No, they’re saying he’s too stupid to have remembered anything remotely top secret. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/4757 "2017-05-16T20:04:40Z")
From now forward, Trump’s security briefings should consist of a puppet show, followed by a nice bowl of ice cream (two scoops!) and a nap. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/4758 "2017-05-16T20:20:54Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > No. The “central claim” of the WaPo story was that such sharing (which is a regular thing that happens when US officials talk to foreign representatives) was in this case inappropriate. Which McMaster, Powell, and Tillerson denied unequivocally. Right. That’s why White House counterterrorism personnel called the CIA and NSA right after the meeting to let them know what happened. Because it was fine. Yeah, that makes sense. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/4759 "2017-05-16T20:27:41Z")
> [@Crybaby\_Boobie](#): > > No, they’re saying he’s too stupid to have remembered anything remotely top secret. I can see that. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/4760 "2017-05-16T20:27:45Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > From now forward, Trump’s security briefings should consist of a puppet show, followed by a nice bowl of ice cream (two scoops!) and a nap. A puppet show and Ice Cream!! (Two scoops, even!) Now I wanna be president. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=237) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=239)