# The Trump Administration: A Clusterfuck in the Making **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 7, 2016, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070 "2016-12-07T00:25:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 253
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2017, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/5041 "2017-05-18T23:49:57Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > I cannot understand why the left wants to get rid of Trump. Well, then, allow me to strike a blow in the never-ending battle against ignorance ([article](https://www.wsj.com/articles/israeli-source-seen-as-key-to-countering-islamic-state-threat-1495068912) paywalled, but the opening sentence ought to suffice): > [@](#): > > The classified information that President Donald Trump shared with Russian officials last week came from _an Israeli source described by multiple U.S. officials as the most valuable source of information on external plotting by Islamic State_… ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2017, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/5042 "2017-05-18T23:54:59Z")
(Another thing to fully expect : Trump firing off a tweet his first day in Israel vouching that “Nobody knew this Israel/Palestine thing was so complicated. Apparently they tremendously don’t agree on some things.”) ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2017, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/5043 "2017-05-19T00:03:04Z")
If Trump pulls off this visit without actually causing a war, or shitting in his own pants, this will be touted as a MAJOR TRIUMPH. The bar is set pretty darn low at the moment. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2017, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/5044 "2017-05-19T00:03:30Z")
Just wait until he suggests that one side should pay rent to the other. I give no odds on which side would be which. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2017, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/5045 "2017-05-19T00:05:51Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Fair enough. I too was schooled by the replies to Sam. I’ve been saying I’m more afraid of “Evil and Competent” than “Evil But Luckily Incompetent”. I’m afraid I was underestimating the damage that can do, and yes, I do need to put America[del] First [/del] Foremost. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2017, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/5046 "2017-05-19T00:43:03Z")
In D&D terms, Pence is lawful evil, which is very bad, whereas Trump is chaotic evil, which is far, far worse. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2017, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/5047 "2017-05-19T00:46:02Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > But after a few weeks of the continuing shit-show I changed my mind. As others has said, Trump is doing severe damage to my country, to its institutions, to its reputation, and to its standing in the world. The longer he stays, the worse it will get. I care enough about my country that I would find Pence more tolerable even if he was worse politically. This. Even more importantly, the longer this shitshow stays in office, the more normalized a shitshow presidency becomes. If we give Trump a pass on flagrant violations of the public’s trust, we open the door for the next guy (or woman) to do the same or worse. Republicans might not care about Trump’s ass-showing, but I seriously doubt they’d be so nonchalant if a liberal was doing the same thing. If we ever get a liberal shitshow president, Republicans will be eager to tell Democrats “Hey, when our guy was showing his ass, we kicked him out. Where’s your integrity?” The game the Republicans are playing now almost guarantees the Dems will play even dirtier when they are back in control. I’m very liberal, but even I don’t want to see what that kind of gameplay would look like. It’s a race to the bottom if we don’t do anything. We need to maintain some basic standard for the WH. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2017, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/5048 "2017-05-19T00:47:09Z")
Investigation, impeachment and trial take time, and Trump has too big an ego to resign, so by pushing hard now for impeachment, there is a good chance that there will be a shit-show through to the mid-terms, at which time the democrats should be able to make some gains and then carry the vote on the impeachment trial, and block the republicans and their Pence on their more extreme attacks against the people. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2017, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/5049 "2017-05-19T01:14:07Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Speaking for myself, it’s because I put country before party. Trump is a disaster for the party and the country, and he is supremely dangerously incompetent, and will drag the party down with him. But, I want him out of there ASAP for the sake of the country. > > That shouldn’t be hard to understand for anyone. This. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2017, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/5050 "2017-05-19T02:45:10Z")
> [@](#): > > President Trump denied any contacts between Russia and his campaign, though he added, “I can only speak for myself.” Actually, he literally said, “I can only speak for myself _ **and Russia** _". He said that. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2017, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/5051 "2017-05-19T02:58:21Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > I cannot understand why the left wants to get rid of Trump. If you are going to have a Republican in the White House, wouldn’t you rather have.a bumbling ex-democrat social moderate who can be manipulated with flattery and who has his two Democrat-voting children advising him, rather than a competent social conservative true believer? > > Impeaching Trump means president Pence. In what world is that an improvement from the left’s perspective? If anything, Pence will be even more conservative than Trump, but he’s also much more skilled at working the Congress and the media. Hence, he will likely be more effective at advancing a conservative agenda. And if Pence doesn’t take the job, or somehow goes down with Trump, you get President Ryan, whose main goals are reforming entitlements, flattening taxes, and lowering regulations > > From the left’s perspective, an idiot like Trump is the best card in a very bad hand, isn’t he? …Trump fundamentally doesn’t understand how government works. Look at the State Department, as just one [example](http://edition.cnn.com/2017/04/27/politics/rex-tillerson-vacancies-state-department-white-house/). A third of ambassadorships are still unfilled. Nearly all the under-secretary and assistant secretary positions unfilled (as of April). There is simply no way that things aren’t “slipping through the cracks.” And as things go on, more and more things will keep on not getting done. Now imagine what is happening, right now, all over the Federal Government. In a big, lumbering, chaotic complex system of interactions like the Federal Government you need strong, anticipatory governance to keep the “machine” running. But Trump hasn’t just taken the eye off the ball: he doesn’t know the ball exists. The government is running on fumes. Decision making is entirely reactionary. The more complex and chaotic the system, the more control you need to hold it together. But there is no control. No filter. No idea. Bit by bit things are going to “break.” And the longer the Trump administration continues, the harder it will be to fix. I don’t like Rick Perry. I think he’s a disaster. But I’m glad he is part of the Trump administration because at the very least he has a understanding of “how things work” Trump will leave him alone, and things will still get done, even if some of those things are things I would disagree with. But Perry is one of the few “normal” Trump picks. Which is why fundamentally people can “live” with Pence, but want Trump gone. Pence will make decisions I disagree with, that can be “corrected” if and when the opposition get back in power. Trump is just breaking things. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2017, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/5052 "2017-05-19T03:24:58Z")
Related to breaking things, it is amusing to note (an not in a happy way) that the old expression “Like a bull in a china shop” is in places like Russia and Israel said as: “Like an _ **Elephant** _ in a china shop” ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2017, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/5053 "2017-05-19T04:42:17Z")
Glad to see [this](http://m.motherjones.com/politics/2017/05/amash-trump-impeachment) cleared up: > [@](#): > > _Correction:_ This article previously stated that Amash was the first Republican to suggest that Trump’s alleged actions could be grounds for impeachment. Following publication, a spokeswoman for Curbelo contacted _Mother Jones_ to point out that “Congressman Curbelo was actually the first Republican to mention impeachment.” ---
**Author:** ![ganthet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de0a6/32.png) [@ganthet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ganthet)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2017, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/5054 "2017-05-19T04:53:24Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …Trump fundamentally doesn’t understand how government works. > > Look at the State Department, as just one [example](http://edition.cnn.com/2017/04/27/politics/rex-tillerson-vacancies-state-department-white-house/). A third of ambassadorships are still unfilled. Nearly all the under-secretary and assistant secretary positions unfilled (as of April). There is simply no way that things aren’t “slipping through the cracks.” And as things go on, more and more things will keep on not getting done. Or to look at another example, Trump ordered all U.S. Attorneys to hand in their resignations with no apparent plan to submit nominations to replace them to the Senate. This included Preet Bhahara, the U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of New York, who has won bipartisan praise and has said that Trump asked him to stay on a few months before the abrupt resignation demand. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2017, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/5055 "2017-05-19T07:17:05Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Real question : why would he sweat ? > I mean, I know precious little about Israel’s domestic politics, but can’t he just say what everybody knows ? “He’s obviously a muppet, don’t worry, we’ll wait until they get someone remotely sane up there before signing anything with them” ? It’s not like Bibi or his goons are going to be responsible for Trump shoving his foot so far in his mouth he’ll be shitting shoe polish for a week. Don’t we all expect it at this point ? I don’t think you appreciate how important a good relationship with the U.S. is to Israel. They’re not just our biggest ally - they’re our patron. And one of Netanyahu’s strongest electoral selling points is his popularity in the Republican party. He could get away with insulting a Democratic administration, like he did with Obama, because to the GOP, he’s a rock star, and everyone here knows that. So he can’t criticize Trump, because if he does so, he might lose the Republicans, and if that happens he’s politically dead in the water, especially considering the multiple scandals and criminal investigations he’s currently facing. On the other hand, if Trump says something insensitive or antisemitic or just really stupid, the left, center and far-right will be all over Bibi, calling for him to demand an apology. If he doesn’t, he’ll come across as the spineless coward he is. In short, it’s a lose-lose situation the moment Trump opens his mouth. Bibi’s hitched his wagon to a tumbling piece of space trash, and it’s starting to burn. ---
**Author:** ![Grim\_Render](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@Grim\_Render](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grim_Render)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2017, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/5056 "2017-05-19T08:25:31Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > I cannot understand why the left wants to get rid of Trump. If you are going to have a Republican in the White House, wouldn’t you rather have.a bumbling ex-democrat social moderate who can be manipulated with flattery and who has his two Democrat-voting children advising him, rather than a competent social conservative true believer? Sometimes I am suddenly reminded of how dysfunctional and polarized American politics are. the above is a perfect example. Policies from the political side you disagree with is not actually the worst thing that can happen to a country. There are **far worse things**. Having the other side in power occasionally and enacting its policies is actually an essential part of a democracy. The damage potential of Trumps personal incompetence far, far exceeds the damage potential of poor or disagreeable but normal policies. ---
**Author:** ![AnalogSignal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/analogsignal/32/1085_2.png) [@AnalogSignal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnalogSignal)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2017, 9:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/5057 "2017-05-19T09:38:49Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > I must say I am looking forward to Trump’s foreign trip. With stops in Saudi Arabia, Israel, the West Bank, and the Vatican, the opportunities for gaffes and fuckups are mind-boggling. Here is what I expect Trump to say when he goes off script speaking in Israel: “The Western Wall is a big, beautiful wall. I am very, very, very impressed by it. I haven’t seen a single Mexican in Israel! Walls work. Believe me.” ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2017, 9:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/5058 "2017-05-19T09:54:17Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > I don’t think you appreciate how important a good relationship with the U.S. is to Israel. They’re not just our biggest ally - they’re our patron. And one of Netanyahu’s strongest electoral selling points is his popularity in the Republican party. He could get away with insulting a Democratic administration, like he did with Obama, because to the GOP, he’s a rock star, and everyone here knows that. So he can’t criticize Trump, because if he does so, he might lose the Republicans, and if that happens he’s politically dead in the water, especially considering the multiple scandals and criminal investigations he’s currently facing. > > On the other hand, if Trump says something insensitive or antisemitic or just really stupid, the left, center and far-right will be all over Bibi, calling for him to demand an apology. If he doesn’t, he’ll come across as the spineless coward he is. In short, it’s a lose-lose situation the moment Trump opens his mouth. Bibi’s hitched his wagon to a tumbling piece of space trash, and it’s starting to burn. I see. Thanks for breaking it down for me, mate. ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2017, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/5059 "2017-05-19T09:56:50Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > I see. Thanks for breaking it down for me, mate. Boy. What are the odds of Trump saying something really really stupid? ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2017, 10:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/5060 "2017-05-19T10:01:34Z")
> [@AnalogSignal](#): > > Here is what I expect Trump to say when he goes off script speaking in Israel: > > “The Western Wall is a big, beautiful wall. I am very, very, very impressed by it. I haven’t seen a single Mexican in Israel! Walls work. Believe me.” “Bad wall. No wonder they’re wailing about it. Terrible wall, shoddy workmanship, cracks everywhere filled with paper (PAPER !), not high enough. Does not stop Palestinians. Shameful.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=252) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=254)