# The Trump Administration: A Clusterfuck in the Making **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 7, 2016, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070 "2016-12-07T00:25:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 269
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2017, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/5361 "2017-05-22T18:53:08Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross thinks it’s a great sign that there were no anti-Trump protesters in Saudi Arabia. The dumbassery runs deep in this administration. > [Wilbur Ross heartened by lack of protesters in Saudi Arabia - MarketWatch](http://www.marketwatch.com/story/wilbur-ross-heartened-by-lack-of-protestors-in-saudi-arabia-2017-05-22) What kind of a deal would it take to keep him there? ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2017, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/5362 "2017-05-22T18:53:57Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > Oooh, Okra, can you explain now why it’s hideously corrupt for Clinton to take Saudi money for her foundation but not for Ivanka to do the same? Grasshopper, it isn’t the action itself that makes it right or wrong, or even the outcome. No, the only thing that matters is whether or not the actor is a librul. ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2017, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/5363 "2017-05-22T18:55:15Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > [A sinkhole has just formed in front of Mar-a-Lago.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/05/22/sinkhole-forms-in-front-of-mar-a-lago-metaphors-pour-in/?utm_term=.e710a376c580) > > Interpret its significance per your own liking. An opening to Mordor after Trump out his hands on that glowing orb thingy. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2017, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/5364 "2017-05-22T19:00:52Z")
Mike Flynn is invoking the Fifth Amendment and is refusing to turn documents over to the Senate investigative committee. [Michael Flynn Invokes 5th Amendment, Refusing To Give Documents To Senate Intelligence Committee : The Two-Way : NPR](http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/05/22/529498045/flynn-to-take-the-5th-refuses-to-turn-over-documents-to-senate-panel)? ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2017, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/5365 "2017-05-22T19:14:49Z")
I like it that trump said “I didnt tell the russians it was Israel!” Thus confirming where the intelligence came from. > **[Donald Trump denies a Russia allegation that no one made | CNN Politics](https://www.cnn.com/2017/05/22/politics/trump-israel-russia/index.html)** > > After an appearance alongside Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu Monday, President Donald Trump paused to push back against reports that he had disclosed highly classified information to the Russians. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2017, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/5366 "2017-05-22T19:32:06Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Mike Flynn is invoking the Fifth Amendment and is refusing to turn documents over to the Senate investigative committee. > [Michael Flynn Invokes 5th Amendment, Refusing To Give Documents To Senate Intelligence Committee : The Two-Way : NPR](http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/05/22/529498045/flynn-to-take-the-5th-refuses-to-turn-over-documents-to-senate-panel)? I’ve never heard of the Fifth being invoked in response to a subpoena…I thought it only involved self-incriminating testimony. But NPR didn’t mention that in the linked story, so I’ll assume that I’m wrong. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2017, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/5367 "2017-05-22T19:36:49Z")
If he carries on at this rate, by the time he hits Italy I’m expecting him to announce world peace. Terrific world peace. Everyone will love it. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2017, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/5368 "2017-05-22T19:37:45Z")
> [@simster](#): > > I like it that trump said > > “I didnt tell the russians it was Israel!” > > Thus confirming where the intelligence came from. > > [http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/22/politics/trump-israel-russia/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/22/politics/trump-israel-russia/index.html) Well, according to the Trump apologists, nobody ever told him it came from Israel, so of course he never said that’s where it came from. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2017, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/5369 "2017-05-22T19:38:28Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Mike Flynn is invoking the Fifth Amendment and is refusing to turn documents over to the Senate investigative committee. > [Michael Flynn Invokes 5th Amendment, Refusing To Give Documents To Senate Intelligence Committee : The Two-Way : NPR](http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/05/22/529498045/flynn-to-take-the-5th-refuses-to-turn-over-documents-to-senate-panel)? > [@](#): > > “We will be responding to the Senate Intelligence Committee today,” a source close to Flynn (said). “We expect to say the general will not providing the requested documents. He is **entitled to decline under the Fifth Amendment**.” Yeah, no, he is not. You cannot keep that bloody knife away from the police because it might incriminate you. Same deal. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2017, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/5370 "2017-05-22T19:49:24Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Mike Flynn is invoking the Fifth Amendment and is refusing to turn documents over to the Senate investigative committee. > [Michael Flynn Invokes 5th Amendment, Refusing To Give Documents To Senate Intelligence Committee : The Two-Way : NPR](http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/05/22/529498045/flynn-to-take-the-5th-refuses-to-turn-over-documents-to-senate-panel)? > [@](#): > > Originally said by The Donald: > The mob takes the Fifth Amendment. If you’re innocent, why are you taking the Fifth Amendment? Oh wait… that was about a Democrat. It’s OK to Plead the Fifth if You Are A Republican. And especially if you conspired with the Russians to throw the election to Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2017, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/5371 "2017-05-22T19:50:48Z")
So I’ve had MST3K on the mind lately, because of the new series, and I think [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_zrBgzuNjs) would be a good song for the current administration. (Come to think of it, that was from the same episode with the line, “Trumpy can do stupid things!”) ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2017, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/5372 "2017-05-22T19:50:48Z")
I am hopeful that Flynn will merely be the very first of the Trump-Russia gang to spend time in jail. He should be sent there forthwith for contempt of congress. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2017, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/5373 "2017-05-22T20:19:05Z")
Short video highlight of Flynn’s testimony. (52 seconds) [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/ERm_WNxGs1U/hqdefault.jpg "I plead the Fifth Amendment! - Dave Chappelle") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERm_WNxGs1U) ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2017, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/5374 "2017-05-22T20:19:26Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Mike Flynn is invoking the Fifth Amendment and is refusing to turn documents over to the Senate investigative committee. > [Michael Flynn Invokes 5th Amendment, Refusing To Give Documents To Senate Intelligence Committee : The Two-Way : NPR](http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/05/22/529498045/flynn-to-take-the-5th-refuses-to-turn-over-documents-to-senate-panel)? Wait, what ? I know the 5th can be invoked to keep mum about things that could be incriminating\* but turning over supboena’d shit ? That’s a new one on me. \*\*Bricker \*\*or another of you [del]hellbound scum[/del] lawyerly types, straight dope on this please ? \*(which in practice is everything you can say, [don’t talk to the police](https://www.google.fr/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjEqqihqYTUAhWPDRoKHW5sB88QyCkIKTAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Dd-7o9xYp7eE&usg=AFQjCNEtcNWUwhnPbzOQ8mqXiA5xLsgKrA&sig2=EKx0RCRNViDWimuplbyvbQ), people) ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2017, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/5375 "2017-05-22T20:35:46Z")
Would they have to issue a warrant for those documents if they really want them? I imagine there’s still some sort of penalty he’ll have to suffer for not handing them over? I mean, that’s what “subpoena” _means._ ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2017, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/5376 "2017-05-22T20:59:14Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Wait, what ? I know the 5th can be invoked to keep mum about things that could be incriminating\* but turning over supboena’d shit ? That’s a new one on me. \*\*Bricker \*\*or another of you [del]hellbound scum[/del] lawyerly types, straight dope on this please ? > > \*(which in practice is everything you can say, [don’t talk to the police](https://www.google.fr/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjEqqihqYTUAhWPDRoKHW5sB88QyCkIKTAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Dd-7o9xYp7eE&usg=AFQjCNEtcNWUwhnPbzOQ8mqXiA5xLsgKrA&sig2=EKx0RCRNViDWimuplbyvbQ), people) IANAL, but I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night 😃 and I saw a lawyer talking on MSNBC while I was there. I don’t fully understand it but this seems to be the relevant case: > **[United States v. Hubbell](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Hubbell)** > > United States v. Hubbell, 530 U.S. 27 (2000), was a United States Supreme Court case involving Webster Hubbell, who had been indicted on various tax-related charges, and mail and wire fraud charges, based on documents that the government had subpoenaed from him. The Fifth Amendment provides that no person "shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself." The Supreme Court has, since 1976, applied the so-called "act-of-production doctrine". Under this doctrine, a person Apparently you can invoke the 5th if the very act of producing the documents (not the contents of the documents themselves) - is incriminating. So if the document is something that it is not legal for you to possess, you can plead the 5th since producing the document is the same as confessing that you have it. But he can’t plead the 5th on the contents of the documents, that material ceased to be protected when it was documented. . ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2017, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/5377 "2017-05-22T21:17:07Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > Wow! I never imagined that Trump’s efforts to bring peace to the Middle East would bear fruit. “If you stop supporting fundamentalist Islam, you can have seventy-two [peaches](http://www.roadsideamerica.com/attract/images/sc/SCGAFpeachoid_larrylisa1.jpg).” > [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross thinks it’s a great sign that there were no anti-Trump protesters in Saudi Arabia. The dumbassery runs deep in this administration. > [Wilbur Ross heartened by lack of protesters in Saudi Arabia - MarketWatch](http://www.marketwatch.com/story/wilbur-ross-heartened-by-lack-of-protestors-in-saudi-arabia-2017-05-22) “They really know how to do business here!” Between this nonsense, Erdogan’s bodyguards kicking the shit out of protesters in D.C., and Trump’s slobbery love for everything Putin, expect more complaints from Trump about how unfair it is that the Constitution provides protections for political speech and assembly. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2017, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/5378 "2017-05-22T21:36:58Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Low energy Trump is just plain exhausted and has to send in Ivanka to substitute for him to events I always thought “exhaustion” was code for rehab. Wonder if he’s having trouble getting his amphetamine fix now that he’s president. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2017, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/5379 "2017-05-22T21:45:00Z")
> [@simster](#): > > I like it that trump said > “I didnt tell the russians it was Israel!” > Thus confirming where the intelligence came from. > > [http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/22/politics/trump-israel-russia/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/22/politics/trump-israel-russia/index.html) Every time I think I have a handle on how low Trump’s IQ actually is, he does something to bump the estimate lower. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2017, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/5380 "2017-05-22T21:47:13Z")
Don’t forget asking whether he can’t throw reporters in jail for reporting leaks. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=268) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=270)