# The Trump Administration: A Clusterfuck in the Making **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 7, 2016, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070 "2016-12-07T00:25:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 336
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2017, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/6702 "2017-06-15T16:17:50Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > And yet, NYT, claiming “anonymous sources” published several whoppers/lies, according to Comey’s testimony. I wonder, did the “anonymous sources” lie, or did NYT just make the “anonymous sources” up? Whether or not a particular story happens to be accurate has little to with whether the original source is anonymous. If the reporter follows accepted journalistic practices, he/she will have the story independently verified by at least one additional, known source before running it. I was going to add more, but I see you have come up with a few specifics. Still, that some elements of a given story turn out not to be accurate does not means the entire story is a “lie”. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2017, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/6703 "2017-06-15T16:19:55Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > Whether or not a particular story happens to be accurate has little to with whether the original source is anonymous. In fact it has everything to do with it. If a source is named, and is telling a lie, that’s a public lie and is on him. If the source is “anonymous”, there are no consequences. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2017, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/6704 "2017-06-15T16:23:32Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > In fact it has everything to do with it. If a source is named, and is telling a lie, that’s a public lie and is on him. If the source is “anonymous”, there are no consequences. There are consequences for the journalist’s reputation, and the reputation of the publisher. That’s how journalism works. That’s why, even still, we give more credence to The New York Times’ anonymous sources than Breitbart’s. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2017, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/6705 "2017-06-15T16:24:29Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > The “anonymous sources” that NYT reported breathlessly told it Comey is going to testify that he never told Trump three times that he was not under investigation. Link? I don’t remember that one. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2017, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/6706 "2017-06-15T16:26:01Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > And yet, NYT, claiming “anonymous sources” published several whoppers/lies, according to Comey’s testimony. I wonder, did the “anonymous sources” lie, or did NYT just make the “anonymous sources” up? They were not made up, and they could had made mistakes, but on the whole the NYT stands by the early report because evidence has come later showing that the Russians did not had just plain spies attempting to gain access to the campaign and its emerging policies. [https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/08/us/politics/james-comey-new-york-times-article-russia.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/08/us/politics/james-comey-new-york-times-article-russia.html) > [@](#): > > Mr. Comey did not say exactly what he believed was incorrect about the article, which was based on information from four current and former American officials, all of whom spoke on the condition of anonymity because the information was classified. The original sources could not immediately be reached after Mr. Comey’s remarks, but in the months since the article was published, they have indicated that they believed the account was solid. > > One possible area of dispute is the description of the Russians involved. Some law enforcement officials took issue with the Times account in the days after it was published, saying that the intelligence was still murky, and that the Russians who were in contact with Mr. Trump’s advisers did not meet the F.B.I.’s black-and-white standard of who can be considered an “intelligence officer.” > > But several former American intelligence and law enforcement officials have said that other American agencies have a broader definition, especially when it comes to Russia. They said that President Vladimir V. Putin uses an extensive network of government officials and private citizens with deep links to Russian spy services who supplement the intelligence apparatus and report back to the Kremlin. At least some of the contacts, they said, involved Russians who fit into this category. > > In testimony last month before the House Intelligence Committee, John O. Brennan, the former C.I.A. director, said he became concerned last year about direct attempts by the Russian government to recruit members of Mr. Trump’s campaign. ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2017, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/6707 "2017-06-15T16:29:38Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > In other news, [a money laundering investigation, possibly involving Manafort and Kushner, has also started.](http://www.mediaite.com/online/special-counsel-mueller-investigating-possible-money-laundering-by-trump-associates/) That’s what I have been waiting for also, and I’m pretty sure was the target all along. All that Russian and Middle eastern money that’s been propping up Trump’s failing business for decades. Let’s really check the paperwork and see exactly who it came from. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2017, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/6708 "2017-06-15T16:30:06Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > Whether or not a particular story happens to be accurate has little to with whether the original source is anonymous. If the reporter follows accepted journalistic practices, he/she will have the story independently verified by at least one additional, known source before running it. > > I was going to add more, but I see you have come up with a few specifics. Still, that some elements of a given story turn out not to be accurate does not means the entire story is a “lie”. Woodward & Bernstein made a wrong step once in their Watergate coverage. That doesn’t mean Nixon was innocent. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2017, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/6709 "2017-06-15T16:31:36Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > Link? I don’t remember that one. I misremembered, it was CNN (and ABC) > **[Opinion | CNN succumbs to its own Comey hype](https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik-wemple/wp/2017/06/08/cnn-succumbs-to-its-own-comey-hype/?utm_term=.f7e07ed4fceb)** > > It valued a story predicting testimony that it was hyping. "Speaking on CNN air on Tuesday night, analyst Gloria Borger said, “Comey is going to dispute the president on this point if he’s asked about it by senators, and we have to assume that he will be. He will say he never assured Donald Trump that he was not under investigation, that that would have been improper for him to do so.” And ABC published: “Comey has told associates he will not corroborate Trump’s claim that on three separate occasions Comey told the president he was not under investigation as part of the probe into Russian meddling in the U.S. election, a source familiar the former director’s thinking told ABC News,” Here’s the question. Do you think Comey told that to associates? Did the “anonymous sources” lie to ABC or did ABC just make it up? ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2017, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/6710 "2017-06-15T16:31:56Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > In fact it has everything to do with it. If a source is named, and is telling a lie, that’s a public lie and is on him. If the source is “anonymous”, there are no consequences. Repeated just in case you somehow missed **steronz** ’ post. > [@steronz](#): > > There are consequences for the journalist’s reputation, and the reputation of the publisher. That’s how journalism works. That’s why, even still, we give more credence to The New York Times’ anonymous sources than Breitbart’s. I understand that you have appointed yourself Chief Board Propagandist for Trump, and I actually don’t have a problem with that, as you are so very transparent that I doubt anyone here takes anything you have to say very seriously. As a matter of form, however, I take offense when people prattle on and on regarding subjects on which they are inexpert, and you have made it abundantly clear that you are completely clueless as to how legitimate journalism is supposed to work. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2017, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/6711 "2017-06-15T16:33:04Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > In fact it has everything to do with it. If a source is named, and is telling a lie, that’s a public lie and is on him. If the source is “anonymous”, there are no consequences. That is, of course, unless he’s part of the current administration, then he can lie like a rug while calling it alternate news and claiming anything to the contrary is false, fake, terrible news. Worst thing that will happen is that the WH press corps will laugh at the answer like they did when Spicer explained covfefe as a secret word known only to a few. Yep. Honesty in government. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2017, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/6712 "2017-06-15T16:34:06Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > Link? I don’t remember that one. It was [ABC apparently](http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/exclusive-comey-stop-short-trump-obstructed-justice-flynn/story?id=47865739), not NYT. Scandalous. Of course anonymous sources aren’t ideal, and there is a certain baseline level of skepticism that’s always appropriate. But it wasn’t that long ago that the “Comey Memo” was just an “anonymous source” reading over the phone to a NYT journalist, and Trump supporters readily dismissed that as “fake news” and “MSM lies.” Of course, it turns out that the Comey Memo was real, and the journalists were right to trust their sources and stake their reputation on them. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2017, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/6713 "2017-06-15T16:38:08Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > Repeated just in case you somehow missed **steronz** ’ post. > > > [@](#): > > > > There are consequences for the journalist’s reputation, and the reputation of the publisher. That’s how journalism works. Great. Please tell me what “consequences” ABC and the journalists involved suffered for their lies about the upcoming Comey testimony? ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2017, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/6714 "2017-06-15T16:43:23Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Great. Please tell me what “consequences” ABC and the journalists involved suffered for their lies about the upcoming Comey testimony? Nope, I’m done here. Prattle away to your heart’s content; you have the floor. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2017, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/6715 "2017-06-15T16:53:24Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > Nope, I’m done here. Prattle away to your heart’s content; you have the floor. Actually, in case anyone thinks I believe that journalists can do no wrong, I went off to read me some news and immediately stumbled across this headline: [Trump Hopes Shooting of Scalise Helps Bring ‘Unity to Our Long Divided Country’](http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/trump-hopes-shooting-scalise-helps-bring-unity-our-long-divided-n772781) I don’t know about anyone else, but IMO NBC maybe should have given that one a bit more thought. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2017, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/6716 "2017-06-15T16:54:50Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Based on “anonymous sources” yet again. Hope springs eternal. > > Really, you guys don’t learn. His lawyer isn’t denying it, just saying it was illegally leaked. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2017, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/6717 "2017-06-15T16:58:46Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > I misremembered, it was CNN (and ABC) > > [https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik-wemple/wp/2017/06/08/cnn-succumbs-to-its-own-comey-hype/?utm\_term=.f7e07ed4fceb](https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik-wemple/wp/2017/06/08/cnn-succumbs-to-its-own-comey-hype/?utm_term=.f7e07ed4fceb) > > "Speaking on CNN air on Tuesday night, analyst Gloria Borger said, “Comey is going to dispute the president on this point if he’s asked about it by senators, and we have to assume that he will be. He will say he never assured Donald Trump that he was not under investigation, that that would have been improper for him to do so.” That’s just an “analyst” stating her prediction which turned out to be wrong. Not a lie, just a wrong prediction. > [@](#): > > And ABC published: “Comey has told associates he will not corroborate Trump’s claim that on three separate occasions Comey told the president he was not under investigation as part of the probe into Russian meddling in the U.S. election, a source familiar the former director’s thinking told ABC News,” > > Here’s the question. Do you think Comey told that to associates? Did the “anonymous sources” lie to ABC or did ABC just make it up? Since ABC confirmed it through multiple sources, the most likely explanation is that Comey did say that to several people. He may have changed his mind later, or purposefully misled those people for some reason. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2017, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/6718 "2017-06-15T16:59:35Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > Since ABC confirmed it through multiple sources, the most likely explanation is that Comey did say that to several people. He may have changed his mind later, or purposefully misled those people for some reason. … or ABC just made it up. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2017, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/6719 "2017-06-15T17:00:11Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Great. Please tell me what “consequences” ABC and the journalists involved suffered for their lies about the upcoming Comey testimony? The consequence is that you, and people like you, get to criticize them as an unreliable source. ---
**Author:** ![SaneBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e68b1a/32.png) [@SaneBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SaneBill)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2017, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/6720 "2017-06-15T17:00:30Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > I misremembered, No, you actually gave us FAKE NEWS, that is you lied. And if not been called for it, you would have never corrected it. How can we ever believe what you will say after this ? Well obviously we can’t. You are now a self-confessed liar. Sad. You should never distort facts. > [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Born: June 14, 1946, 10:54 AM > In: Jamaica So Donald Trump was born in Jamaica. Isn’t that like West-Kenya or something ? ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2017, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/6721 "2017-06-15T17:02:27Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > That’s just an “analyst” stating her prediction which turned out to be wrong. Not a lie, just a wrong prediction. Gloria Borger is not an “analyst”. She is a CNN journalist. And it was not a “prediction”. It was the result of work of four CNN journalists - Gloria Borger, Eric Lichtblau, Jake Tapper and Brian Rokus and they supposedly had “sources”. Or maybe they just made it up. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=335) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=337)