# The Trump Administration: A Clusterfuck in the Making **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 7, 2016, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070 "2016-12-07T00:25:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 349
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2017, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/6962 "2017-06-18T22:33:17Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > The presidency is getting closer and closer to a point of self-inflicted unrecoverable dysfunction. > [@asahi](#): > > And let’s be clear: if economic conditions deteriorate between now and 2020, it’s all on the GOP – 100%. Sure, despite none of that probably registering at all with his 39% scumbag base. > [@Mighty\_Girl](#): > > I wouldn’t trust a pet hamster to him. Wouldn’t put anything past that [felcher](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3qj-R5oWYU) either. > [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > So, Trump tweets that he’s under investigation, and his lawyer tells Chris Wallace, “No, he’s not.” > [Trump Attorney: The President Is Not Under Investigation](http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/trump-attorney-president-not-under-investigation-n773751) > [@](#): > > [legal beagle]Sekulow claimed the president is not spending a lot of time composing the tweets, but defended them as a means of speaking directly to voters, saying “he’s responding to what he’s seeing in the media in a way in which he thinks is appropriate **to talk to those people that put him in office**.” aw that’s so…generous. My bold - showing that the rest of us traitorous heathens aren’t really worthy of even reading his pearls of jizz-dom from on high. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2017, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/6963 "2017-06-18T23:07:44Z")
> [@Mighty\_Girl](#): > > I don’t understand it, what possible reason does anyone have to believe Donald has their back? The guy is a habitual backstabber. > > I wouldn’t trust a pet hamster to him. To be fair, he does have their back…as a target. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2017, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/6964 "2017-06-18T23:15:17Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > These are truly some of the great mysteries of the 21st century: how could any voter have seriously thought that Trump would bestir himself to help anyone but himself? How could GOP congress people possibly believe that Trump is a genuine Republican who would help their party or their party’s image? They knew what he is but didn’t care because he promised to ban Muslims. That’s all they cared about. Why do they support his dismantling of everything Obama did? Because they believe Obama’s Muslim! Anything bdo does, then, obviously, must be great because he’s sticking it to Muslims, especially to his Muslim predecesser. His BS about other minority groups is bad, too, of course, but not as bad as the anti-Muslim crap he rode into the White House. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2017, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/6965 "2017-06-19T00:01:16Z")
> [@Mighty\_Girl](#): > > I wouldn’t trust a pet hamster to him. I’d offer to let him pet-sit my colony of brown recluse spiders, but he is so vile that I doubt even they would bite him. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2017, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/6966 "2017-06-19T00:15:15Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > It looks as though the lawyer hit most of the Sunday shows with that attempt at doublethink. > > Trump’s Friday tweet was: His interview on Foxnews with Chris Wallace is a thing of beauty. He claims that Trump is not under investigation, but chastises the Justice department for investigating Trump. Leading to the following [exchange](http://www.businessinsider.com/trump-lawyer-jay-sekulow-interview-russia-investigation-fox-news-2017-6): - “You’ve now said that he’s being investigated,” Wallace said. “No, Chris. Let me be crystal clear so you completely understand: We have not received nor are we aware of any investigation of the president of the United States,” Sekulow replied. “Sir, you’ve just said two times that he’s being investigated,” Wallace said. “I just gave you the legal theory of how the constitution works,” Sekulow said. “If in fact it’s correct that the president is being investigated, he’s being investigated for taking an action that an agency told him to take. That is protected under the constitution.” \* So, basically, he’s not being investigated, but the investigation is wrong. Your honor, I did not kill that man, but if I did, it was self defense. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2017, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/6967 "2017-06-19T00:57:34Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Trump must be an attorney’s nightmare. I guess that’s why Trump’s lawyer recently hired himself a lawyer. One should not forget that although Mr. Richard Nixon did not spend a day in jail, plenty of people around him certainly did. Including some high-ranking folks, and lawyers; John N. Mitchell – fAttorney General and director of Nixon’s election campaigns; served 19 months. H. R. Haldeman – White House chief of staff,received an 18-month prison sentence. John Ehrlichman – assistant to Nixon served 18 months in prison. Charles Colson – White House counsel, served seven months. Gordon C. Strachan – White House aide conviction was overturned on appeal. Kenneth Parkinson – counsel for the Committee to Re-elect the President;faced 10 years in prison, but acquitted at trial. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2017, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/6968 "2017-06-19T01:00:49Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Trump must be an attorney’s nightmare. Trump must be a nightmare to anyone he is boss of. The best example to me would be his Press Spokesman. You get informed of the talking points, go and discuss these talking points in a press briefing and then get totally undercut and contradicted by your boss (usually via Twitter). ---
**Author:** ![The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_King_of_Soup)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2017, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/6969 "2017-06-19T01:13:38Z")
I must be thick, because I’m not getting the desperate argument over whether or when the president\* was the principal target of an investigation. It has little to do with whether evidence has been/will be found of wrongdoing on his part, and particularly nothing whatever to do with whether he obstructed justice (correct me if I’m wrong, lawyers, but it is possible to obstruct justice by interfering in an investigation that doesn’t involve you, isn’t it?) or not. So why is this point the Maypole everyone’s dancing around? ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2017, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/6970 "2017-06-19T01:27:22Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > You know you have problems when Sheriff Many Medals won’t even work for you. I always have to chuckle when the Chief of Police of some burg, even very small ones, appears on TV wearing MacArthur’s uniform. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2017, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/6971 "2017-06-19T01:58:47Z")
> [@The\_King\_of\_Soup](#): > > I must be thick, because I’m not getting the desperate argument over whether or when the president\* was the principal target of an investigation. It has little to do with whether evidence has been/will be found of wrongdoing on his part, and particularly nothing whatever to do with whether he obstructed justice (correct me if I’m wrong, lawyers, but it is possible to obstruct justice by interfering in an investigation that doesn’t involve you, isn’t it?) or not. So why is this point the Maypole everyone’s dancing around? Just my WAG, if he’s the target of an investigation that indicates something is actually being done about his alleged obstruction of justice. That would the desirable outcome for those who believe he is guilty. ---
**Author:** ![The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_King_of_Soup)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2017, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/6972 "2017-06-19T01:59:20Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > I always have to chuckle when the Chief of Police of some burg, even very small ones, appears on TV wearing MacArthur’s uniform. In my mind I always call him Cowboy Patton. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2017, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/6973 "2017-06-19T03:30:29Z")
> [@The\_King\_of\_Soup](#): > > I must be thick, because I’m not getting the desperate argument over whether or when the president\* was the principal target of an investigation. It has little to do with whether evidence has been/will be found of wrongdoing on his part, and particularly nothing whatever to do with whether he obstructed justice (correct me if I’m wrong, lawyers, but it is possible to obstruct justice by interfering in an investigation that doesn’t involve you, isn’t it?) or not. So why is this point the Maypole everyone’s dancing around? Predisent Turmp himself started it with his obsession over that specific point. If he couldn’t just make the whole thing go away, he wanted himself not just cleared, but so anointed sinless he’s not even being considered. Two reasons. First is it gives him a stupid version of plausible deniability if all his underlings were in Russia’s pocket behind his back. Second it lets him sleep at night knowing his own guilt is still undiscovered and nobody is going to ask to look in his closet door skeletons. (Also probably why he wanted Flynn let go, IMHO Flynn wasn’t discussing sanction relief by his own accord.) Also, a criminal case against the president directly is significantly more complicated, difficult, and perilous than anyone else that works for it. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2017, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/6974 "2017-06-19T03:32:10Z")
[Remind you of anybody](http://www.slate.com/articles/life/low_concept/2015/10/every_conversation_between_a_parent_and_a_child_in_four_conversations.html)? > [@Sean Williams in Slate Magazine](#): > > Child: Can I have this? > > Me: No. > > Child: Ah, perhaps I’ve miscommunicated. I’m asking for it because I want it. > > Me: I understood that, actually. > > Child: I think maybe you’re not hearing me. I’d like it because I want it. > > Me: I’ve heard you quite well, I’m saying that’s not actually an argument. > > Child: PERHAPS IF I SAID IT LOUDER. > > Me: There’s no problem with my hearing. The problem is that your argument is, as the Romans would say, _circulus in probando._ > > Child: Well then, let me offer this new information: I want it. > > Me: That’s the same information. That’s what you just said, and it’s also the information I assumed when we started. > > Child: Well, can I watch YouTube? > > Me: You also can’t watch YouTube. > > Child: If I can’t watch YouTube, then can I have it? > > Me: No! Sorry. No. Why would you think you can have it now? > > Child: What if I ask more politely? > > Me: I support your decision to behave more politely, and it might increase your chances of getting the next thing you want, but it won’t affect your access to this thing now. > > Child: Can I have part of it? > > Me: No. No, the having of it is what I’m saying no to. Having part of it is the same as having it. > > Child: So can I have all of it? > > Me: No! I’m answering the same question. The answer is no. > > Child: Why not? > > Me: BECAUSE I—Look. No. > > Child: But, OK, look, here is some new information. > > Me: Yes. What is it? > > Child: I _need_ it. ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2017, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/6975 "2017-06-19T04:16:20Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > Trump’s legislative agenda (and I use the term loosely) is much how Tolkien described how the orcs and trolls came into being. Melkor/Trump cannot create; they can only mock and destroy. Look, I just bumped into Sauron down at the Pak’n’Save, and I know you didn’t mean anything by it, but he says Melkor’s been holed up in Angband, crying and eating a tub of double-fudge ice cream, ever since you compared him to Trump. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2017, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/6976 "2017-06-19T13:48:07Z")
> [@garygnu](#): > > Predisent Turmp himself started it with his obsession over that specific point. If he couldn’t just make the whole thing go away, he wanted himself not just cleared, but so anointed sinless he’s not even being considered. > Two reasons. First is it gives him a stupid version of plausible deniability if all his underlings were in Russia’s pocket behind his back. Second it lets him sleep at night knowing his own guilt is still undiscovered and nobody is going to ask to look in his closet door skeletons. (Also probably why he wanted Flynn let go, IMHO Flynn wasn’t discussing sanction relief by his own accord.) You’re missing the most obvious point of Trump’s obsession with “I am not / was not under investigation,” which is that it plays well to Trumpists. Of course it doesn’t really mean anything. MOST criminals are, at least for a time, not personally under investigation while the crime is being investigated. If I go rob some banks the police will not, at first, be personally investigating me; they will be investigating bank robberies and trying to identify who the masked robber was. Indeed, it is quite likely the great majority of the investigation will proceed without the suspect being identified. This isn’t a perfect analogy - in the bank robbery scenario the fact specific crimes were committed is a matter not in dispute, whereas in the case of the Russia scandal that’s a matter yet to be determined - but the point is generally valid. But “I Am Not Under Investigation,” while legally meaningless, is VERY emotionally meaningful to Trumpists. Tens of millions of them are typing it on Facebook or repeating it, because Trump and his media allies told them to. To them, it means something; Trump said so, so it must mean it exonerates him. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2017, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/6977 "2017-06-19T14:28:08Z")
I’ve got someone on another site that is endlessly repeating that “since Trump’s lawyer says he is not being investigated, this means that Trump is completely exhonorated, and this whole thing is now finished. Winning! And the libtards must be crying now, which is terrific.” He seriously thinks that if your lawyer declares you innocent, then the investigation must stop. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2017, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/6978 "2017-06-19T15:08:04Z")
I wonder if there’s an element of…i dunno… sunk cost, or the emotional equivalent. "I supported him so hard, and if he turns out so crooked, so fast, what does that say about me? " I doubt that most Trumpettes are really thinking that, but i wonder if some part of their brains are just refusing to believe that they were taken in by such am obvious con. ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2017, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/6979 "2017-06-19T15:25:25Z")
Very likely. Cognitive Dissonance meets the Sunk Cost Fallacy. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2017, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/6980 "2017-06-19T15:31:08Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > I wonder if there’s an element of…i dunno… sunk cost, or the emotional equivalent. "I supported him so hard, and if he turns out so crooked, so fast, what does that say about me? " > I doubt that most Trumpettes are really thinking that, but i wonder if some part of their brains are just refusing to believe that they were taken in by such am obvious con. Actually, that fits a theory I have about right wing views of environmental issues. Why are right wingers deny climate change? The science is valid. Don’t they care about the world their kids will inherit? They deny it because they have F350s and ginormous Silverados and Rams, and if humans can affect the climate, them maybe they themselves are part of the problem. But, they like their trucks. So, better to believe that climate change is a hoax, and then they can keep their truck with a clear conscience. Same with trump. If he’s really not the pathetic trumpster fire that people say he is, then they didn’t make a mistake voting for him. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2017, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/6981 "2017-06-19T15:38:59Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > Why are right wingers deny climate change? The science is valid. Don’t they care about the world their kids will inherit? Their foresight is generally limited to a four year span. Besides, caring about the world is for those damned hippies. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=348) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=350)