# The Trump Administration: A Clusterfuck in the Making **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 7, 2016, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070 "2016-12-07T00:25:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 497
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/9924 "2017-08-15T21:52:19Z")
Thanks, all. I’m starting to miss the ACA defense work that kept me off the board. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/9925 "2017-08-15T21:52:34Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > I guess you missed the “club wielding” and “beating” parts, did you? Do you see anything wrong with that? > > In any case, this was in response to the righteous indignation to Trump’s “You had a group on one side and you had a group on the other, and they came at each other with clubs and it was vicious and it was horrible, and it was a horrible thing to watch.” > > So - when Trump says this, he’s a racist. But when a NY Times reporter says this, is she racist? [Club-wielding and beating](http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/deandre-harris-viciously-beaten-poles-white-supremacists-article-1.3410063). > [@](#): > > Deandre Harris, 20, was attacked in a parking lot by a group of white supremacists who kicked him, punched him and pummeled him with metal poles. > > Video posted on Twitter shows the aspiring hip-hop artist desperately trying to escape his attackers as they repeatedly strike him with poles and other objects. The images provide disturbing insight into the level of hate behind the actions of some of the white nationalists. We know what kind of filth you stand with. ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/9926 "2017-08-15T21:56:36Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > I guess you missed the “club wielding” and “beating” parts, did you? Do you see anything wrong with that? Oh, the guys in white shirts beating up the black kid in the parking lot? Yeah, I saw something wrong with that. As far as anyone hitting a guy wearing a Hitler t-shirt under his fake camos while sporting a hunting rifle? No, I saw nothing wrong with that. The Nazi-wannabes WANTED to incite violence. That was the point of this gathering, not a peaceful protest. ETA: Hey, **Coach!** We cross posted! ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/9927 "2017-08-15T21:56:42Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > [Club-wielding and beating](http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/deandre-harris-viciously-beaten-poles-white-supremacists-article-1.3410063). Your point proves mine. Yes, there were club-wielding violent thugs on both sides. Your article shows one side’s club-wielding hate-filled violent thugs. The tweet I posted from the NYT reporters shows the other side’s club-wielding hate-filled violent thugs. Which is what Trump was saying. ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/9928 "2017-08-15T22:01:20Z")
Got it. So thugs are the ones who attack VA Nazis. At least they’re thugs with a conscience. Where can I buy a Go Thugs t-shirt? Trump make those too? ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/9929 "2017-08-15T22:04:17Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Your point proves mine. Yes, there were club-wielding violent thugs on both sides. Your article shows one side’s club-wielding hate-filled violent thugs. The tweet I posted from the NYT reporters shows the other side’s club-wielding hate-filled violent thugs. Which is what Trump was saying. I think we can both agree that beating someone with a club is bad. Person A: Beats someone with a club because the victim is black. Person B: Beats someone with a club because the victim chooses to espouse an inherently violent ideology that celebrates the subjugation of millions of black people (or the mass extermination of millions of Jews, take your pick.) Do you think those are equivalent actions? Ethically speaking. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/9930 "2017-08-15T22:05:49Z")
> [@Locrian](#): > > Got it. So thugs are the ones who attack VA Nazis. Yes, I consider anyone who starts beating someone else with a club a violent thug. You apparently don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/9931 "2017-08-15T22:11:42Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > I think we can both agree that beating someone with a club is bad. > > Person A: Beats someone with a club because the victim is black. > > Person B: Beats someone with a club because the victim chooses to espouse an inherently violent ideology that celebrates the subjugation of millions of black people (or the mass extermination of millions of Jews, take your pick.) > > Do you think those are equivalent actions? Ethically speaking. Never mind, I take that back. I’m uncomfortable with any sort of defense of violent behavior, even if the victim is a Nazi piece of shit. See my post in the other Pit thread for my real argument. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/9932 "2017-08-15T22:12:43Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > I think we can both agree that beating someone with a club is bad. > > Person A: Beats someone with a club because the victim is black. > > Person B: Beats someone with a club because the victim chooses to espouse an inherently violent ideology that celebrates the subjugation of millions of black people (or the mass extermination of millions of Jews, take your pick.) > > Do you think those are equivalent actions? Ethically speaking. Depends on your ethics. For me, beating someone who is not attacking you is beating someone who is not attacking you. As I said before, I am Jewish. More than a dozen of my relatives were killed in the Holocaust. I still would call someone who beats that Nazi who is demonstrating and not violent with a club a violent thug and condemn him. The Nazi espouses an evil ideology. And the one with the club is a violent thug. You seem to want very badly to excuse the violent thug. But a violent thug is a violent thug. In his mind he may have great motivation (both the Nazi and the antifa thug) to be a violent thug. But he is a violent thug nonetheless. And pointing out that there were a lot of leftist violent thugs at that event is not racist and is not apologizing for Nazis. Nazis are evil scum. And “antifa” are violent thugs. The fact that Nazis are evil scum does not excuse antifa being violent thugs, in my eyes. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/9933 "2017-08-15T22:14:14Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > So…for Saturday’s violence, [he’s blaming the Nazis _and_ the people who oppose Nazis.](http://www.politico.com/story/2017/08/15/trump-asks-why-alt-left-not-being-blamed-for-charlottesville-violence-241660) People who oppose fucking Nazis are now “alt-left.” He’s doubled down, ladies and gentlemen. It appears Team Bannon is now in the lead. This is what jumped out at me when I heard the conference. If you oppose the extremist White National or Nazi platform, then you too are an extremist albeit at the other end of the spectrum. IOW, if I demonstrate at a pro-Nazi garden-party, I’m a dangerous extremist. If I DON’T demonstrate, I am tacitly approving of the abhorrent Nazi ethos…is that how this works? Fuck US, what hope is there? ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/9934 "2017-08-15T22:15:49Z")
> [@kambuckta](#): > > This is what jumped out at me when I heard the conference. If you oppose the extremist White National or Nazi platform, then you too are an extremist albeit at the other end of the spectrum. No, if you’re a violent hate-filled thug who is [beating up people with a club](https://twitter.com/SherylNYT/status/896575560650035200), you’re an extremist at the other end of the spectrum. ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/9935 "2017-08-15T22:15:56Z")
I am enjoying the thought of hundreds of pols with “R” next to their name scrambling to decide if this finally the point where they stand up and denounce Trump completely, or continue to weasel that although his opinions are deplorable he is still a “good” man. A few of them may actually have a smidgen of morals poking at their conscience even. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/9936 "2017-08-15T22:16:47Z")
I was once told that it is completely ethical, nay it is a moral imperative, to attack any person who puts you in fear of your life the instant that you feel that fear. Armed white supremacists marching in lock step carrying Nazi imagery and chanting anti-Semitic bullshit would scare the shit out of me. Fuck them. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/9937 "2017-08-15T22:18:10Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > You seem to want very badly to excuse the violent thug. But a violent thug is a violent thug. In his mind he may have great motivation (both the Nazi and the antifa thug) to be a violent thug. But he is a violent thug nonetheless. See my above post retracting that statement. I won’t make that argument. Violence is violence. I’ll repost this: Group A: Nazis Group B: Counter-protesters. Group A is 100% bad. There is not a single redeemable person in Group A. Group A espouses an inherently violent ideology and is ethically bankrupt, completely and totally. Every single person. Group B is mostly good. Most of the people in Group B are there because they don’t like racism. Some people within Group B are assholes and resort to violence, but on the whole Group B is driven by a peaceful ideology predicated on standing up for the oppressed. At this event, someone from the 100% bad Group A murdered a person from the mostly good Group B and wounded 19 more. As a result, Trump is shifting the blame to make Group B, as a whole, look violent. There is no comparison. It is utterly fucking inexcusable. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/9938 "2017-08-15T22:23:34Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > See my above post retracting that statement. I won’t make that argument. Violence is violence. > > I’ll repost this: > > Group A: Nazis > Group B: Counter-protesters. > > Group A is 100% bad. There is not a single redeemable person in Group A. Group A espouses an inherently violent ideology and is ethically bankrupt, completely and totally. Every single person. > > Group B is mostly good. Most of the people in Group B are there because they don’t like racism. Some people within Group B are assholes and resort to violence, but on the whole Group B is driven by a peaceful ideology predicated on standing up for the oppressed. > > At this event, someone from the 100% bad Group A murdered a person from the mostly good Group B and wounded 19 more. > > As a result, Trump is shifting the blame to make Group B, as a whole, look violent. Bull. Trump is not talking about the car-crash murder. That incident is 100% one sided. He is talking about the incident as a whole. And in the incident as a whole there were groups of hate-filled violent thugs, Nazis on one side and “alt-left” (or “antifa” or whatever you want to call them) on the other side - attacking **each other** in the streets. Which is what Trump said. Which is what the NYT reporter said. Apparently it’s only “bad” if Trump says it. If it’s an NYT reporter that **reports** it, that is skipped. 'cuz it’s not Trump. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/9939 "2017-08-15T22:26:57Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > …Team Bannon is now in the lead. > > … Team Bannon has always been in the lead. That asshole is there for a reason. Make America White Again. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/9940 "2017-08-15T22:28:23Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > I haven’t been participating all that much lately. Is this Okrahoma’s schtick? He’s usually even dumber. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/9941 "2017-08-15T22:29:21Z")
Breaking news: armed thugs toss garbage, has garbage tossed back at them. Film at 11. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/9942 "2017-08-15T22:30:36Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > No, if you’re a violent hate-filled thug who is [beating up people with a club](https://twitter.com/SherylNYT/status/896575560650035200), you’re an extremist at the other end of the spectrum. So your position is that if anybody hits a Nazi with a club, then that makes everybody else as bad as Nazis - worse even, because we need to _focus_ on the attack against the Nazis, and utterly ignore which group clearly escalated the situation via imposing and threatening behavior. On a separate point, I absolutely agree we shouldn’t physically attack nazis on national television - not because those shitbags don’t deserve to have their shit and bags beat to a pulp, but because they _want_ to be attacked. It allows them to crow what victims they are. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/9943 "2017-08-15T22:31:03Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > I haven’t been participating all that much lately. Is this Okrahoma’s schtick? > [@bobot](#): > > He’s usually even dumber. [Tossing up any old thing to see what sticks.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=832138) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=496) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=498)