# The Trump Administration: A Clusterfuck in the Making **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 7, 2016, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070 "2016-12-07T00:25:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 515
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2017, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/10284 "2017-08-18T13:53:16Z")
I think you’re right that there is no way to reach them. It is sad and disturbing. I’m trying to figure out what we do now. Outvote them? That means reaching more moderates, right? How do we do that? ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2017, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/10285 "2017-08-18T14:04:14Z")
I don’t think anyone is unreachable. I do think that they may not be reachable en masse given the resources that we are likely to have available. Here’s an example of someone who would have looked unreachable but who has changed: [http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/08/18/former-neo-nazi-charlottesville-terrifies-me-215502](http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/08/18/former-neo-nazi-charlottesville-terrifies-me-215502) A quote that echoes why I am not okay with just saying “Oh, give them a platform and we’ll out-argue them!” > [@](#): > > On social media, it’s easy to find like minds halfway across the country who can affirm your worldview with likes and retweets. We had only our pamphlets and shoe leather, which made it harder to build a national following. > > You don’t have to look much further than last weekend to understand what this more diffuse, more tech-savvy network of extremists has done to magnify and better organize the same hate that I once espoused. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2017, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/10286 "2017-08-18T14:09:48Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > I don’t think anyone is unreachable. I do think that they may not be reachable en masse given the resources that we are likely to have available. > > Here’s an example of someone who would have looked unreachable but who has changed: [http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/08/18/former-neo-nazi-charlottesville-terrifies-me-215502](http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/08/18/former-neo-nazi-charlottesville-terrifies-me-215502) > > A quote that echoes why I am not okay with just saying “Oh, give them a platform and we’ll out-argue them!” So, what do we do? I’m seriously about to give up. I do not want this country to erupt in violence, but it’s clear the Nazis want violence, and it’s clear some on the left do, too. And the only way I can think of to stop it, since the Nazis are beyond reach, is appealing to my fellow leftists to take it down a notch. I don’t know what else might work, but I afraid we’re on the precipice of something bloody and ugly. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2017, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/10287 "2017-08-18T14:17:37Z")
I do give up. I can’t fix this. I don’t even understand what’s happening. This is the kind of shit that makes you question who you are. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2017, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/10288 "2017-08-18T14:29:13Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > So, what do we do? > > I’m seriously about to give up. I do not want this country to erupt in violence, but it’s clear the Nazis want violence, and it’s clear some on the left do, too. And the only way I can think of to stop it, since the Nazis are beyond reach, is appealing to my fellow leftists to take it down a notch. I don’t know what else might work, but I afraid we’re on the precipice of something bloody and ugly. I think we have to batten down the hatches, keep up the public pressure, and hang on. We shouldn’t seek out physical confrontations. We should be aware that physical confrontations may happen. We should stop acting like racism, anti-Semitism, and sexism are a thing of the past. We should stop acting like it’s no big deal as long as someone isn’t actually being lynched in that exact moment. Frankly, I think a lot of us really want the country to be better than it is, so we reject things that reveal the ugly stuff. I love this article for getting at why white supremacy is our underpinning, and it’s only through really coming to grips with that instead of hiding from it that we can start to make sense of it all: [The one thing Donald Trump gets right about race in the US - Vox](https://www.vox.com/identities/2017/8/18/16145476/charlottesville-protest-white-supremacy) ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2017, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/10289 "2017-08-18T14:29:18Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > I think you’re right that there is no way to reach them. It is sad and disturbing. I’m trying to figure out what we do now. Outvote them? That means reaching more moderates, right? How do we do that? There’s a lot of room to increase liberal votes cast by increasing turnout of people who are already liberal. Possibly as much room there as there is in turning moderates. I’m not sure it’s much easier to get those people to the polls than it is to change minds, but it is another avenue. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2017, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/10290 "2017-08-18T14:30:20Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > I do give up. I can’t fix this. I don’t even understand what’s happening. This is the kind of shit that makes you question who you are. See the poll I posted in another thread. It shows People “mostly agreeing” with: white supremacists: 4% white nationalists: 4% “antifa”: 5% KKK: 2% Tiny percentages, so they are not a problem by themselves. A fringe of a fringe. They are a problem if there is a public gathering and they insinuate into them and try to start something. The police should be able to handle these, if they try to. In Charlottsville they failed. Lessons should be learned and applied. Separate the sides, always. Do not allow demonstrators and counter-demonstrators to be close to each other. Enforce that, rigidly. These 4-5% on either side thrive on conflict. Prevent the conflict, and they will lose their motivation. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2017, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/10291 "2017-08-18T14:37:59Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > See the poll I posted in another thread. It shows > > People “mostly agreeing” with: > > white supremacists: 4% > white nationalists: 4% > “antifa”: 5% > KKK: 2% > > Tiny percentages, so they are not a problem by themselves. A fringe of a fringe. > > They are a problem if there is a public gathering and they insinuate into them and try to start something. The police should be able to handle these, if they try to. In Charlottsville they failed. Lessons should be learned and applied. Separate the sides, always. Do not allow demonstrators and counter-demonstrators to be close to each other. Enforce that, rigidly. > > These 4-5% on either side thrive on conflict. Prevent the conflict, and they will lose their motivation. People always underreport on self report surveys. So double that number, at least. That’s millions of people who advocate genocide. Then consider that not everyone who is racist agrees with genocide, but they are still damaging to the country. And a lot of people are racist. A lot. I’d estimate that half the people in my state are racist, not that they’d ever admit it on a survey. I live in Michigan. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2017, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/10292 "2017-08-18T14:37:59Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > \*\*See the poll I posted in another thread. It shows > \*\* > People “mostly agreeing” with: > > white supremacists: 4% > white nationalists: 4% > “antifa”: 5% > KKK: 2% > > Tiny percentages, so they are not a problem by themselves. A fringe of a fringe. > > They are a problem if there is a public gathering and they insinuate into them and try to start something. The police should be able to handle these, if they try to. In Charlottsville they failed. Lessons should be learned and applied. Separate the sides, always. Do not allow demonstrators and counter-demonstrators to be close to each other. Enforce that, rigidly. > > These 4-5% on either side thrive on conflict. Prevent the conflict, and they will lose their motivation. Nice job linking, you lazy fuck. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2017, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/10293 "2017-08-18T14:43:07Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > So, what do we do? > > I’m seriously about to give up. I do not want this country to erupt in violence, but it’s clear the Nazis want violence, and it’s clear some on the left do, too. Get more people into office who are against racism and hate. Put pressure on people who are already in office to denounce hatred and violence. Put pressure on companies and organizations to sever ties with those who condone hatred - all ties, including CEOs sitting on the President’s Business Council (hey, mission accomplished already!) to advertising on alt-right web sites. (Advertisers don’t specify which sites their ads appear on, but they _can_ - so if enough people complain about their ads supporting hate group sites, they would pull those ads.) ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2017, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/10294 "2017-08-18T14:45:20Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > So, what do we do? > > I’m seriously about to give up. I do not want this country to erupt in violence, but it’s clear the Nazis want violence, and it’s clear some on the left do, too. And the only way I can think of to stop it, since the Nazis are beyond reach, is appealing to my fellow leftists to take it down a notch. I don’t know what else might work, but I afraid we’re on the precipice of something bloody and ugly. One of the big problems, rhetoric aside, is that Trump espouses a philosophy of escalation. His guiding philosophy-which he has said before- is " if someone hits you, hit them back 10 times harder". And “never forgive”. There are something like 10 alt-right rallies scheduled for the weekend. I guess there’s a chance that they will all be peaceful and respectful and that Trump will respond appropriately.:eek: Just kidding, you know there’s no chance of that happening. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2017, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/10295 "2017-08-18T14:48:12Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > Get more people into office who are against racism and hate. Put pressure on people who are already in office to denounce hatred and violence. Put pressure on companies and organizations to sever ties with those who condone hatred - all ties, including CEOs sitting on the President’s Business Council (hey, mission accomplished already!) to advertising on alt-right web sites. (Advertisers don’t specify which sites their ads appear on, but they _can_ - so if enough people complain about their ads supporting hate group sites, they would pull those ads.) Yep. We’ve had the practice of trying to shut down terror groups’ access to funds overseas but winked at it here. That doesn’t have to continue. I wish I were in favor of no fly lists and the suggested no gun lists, but I’m not. I can’t support secret lists that prevent people from living their lives and that there is no recourse for. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2017, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/10296 "2017-08-18T14:57:02Z")
In the _Star Trek_ episode [‘Day of the Dove’](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Day_of_the_Dove), they got rid of the evil entity by laughing at it. I wonder if the Good Guys can chase away the Bad Guys not by yelling insults at them, but by laughing at them, recording them, and spreading the videos to show how ridiculous the fascists are. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2017, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/10297 "2017-08-18T15:08:39Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Yep. We’ve had the practice of trying to shut down terror groups’ access to funds overseas but winked at it here. That doesn’t have to continue. > > I wish I were in favor of no fly lists and the suggested no gun lists, but I’m not. I can’t support secret lists that prevent people from living their lives and that there is no recourse for. Totally not in favor of secret lists. Seems so blatantly unconstitutional on the face of it. But so does Civil Forfeiture. If you’re on any kind of list like this, the government should have to explain why and create an easy avenue of appealing it. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2017, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/10298 "2017-08-18T15:10:35Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > I don’t care for that argument. Racism runs in my family. I had two grandfathers who were in the KKK, one of which most probably murdered black people. > > Let Trump’s own racism speak for itself. Fair enough. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2017, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/10299 "2017-08-18T15:12:33Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Yes, in context there are zero alternative interpretations of that line. Doesn’t matter, the Nazi liars and their lackies will twist it around and the “faithful” will eat it up. ---
**Author:** ![MindsEye\_Watering](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mindseye_watering/32/3619_2.png) [@MindsEye\_Watering](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MindsEye_Watering)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2017, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/10300 "2017-08-18T15:13:09Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > In the _Star Trek_ episode [‘Day of the Dove’](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Day_of_the_Dove), they got rid of the evil entity by laughing at it. > > I wonder if the Good Guys can chase away the Bad Guys not by yelling insults at them, but by laughing at them, recording them, and spreading the videos to show how ridiculous the fascists are. Point and Laugh is waaaay better than violence of any sort. I think “laughing at them, recording them, and spreading the videos to show how ridiculous the fascists are” is the best policy. I’ll bet it will be effective as hell, too. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2017, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/10301 "2017-08-18T15:15:09Z")
> [@MindsEye\_Watering](#): > > Point and Laugh is waaaay better than violence of any sort. I think “laughing at them, recording them, and spreading the videos to show how ridiculous the fascists are” is the best policy. I’ll bet it will be effective as hell, too. I wanted to add: When someone is hatefully ridiculous, then they should be ridiculed. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2017, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/10302 "2017-08-18T15:20:14Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > While we’re on Biblical issues, it’s interesting to note that, while corporate CEOs are abandoning Trump in droves, his Evangelical advisors seem happy to hang around and bask in the glow of his white supremacism. It shows what phony hypocritical lying bastards they always were. Since tney like to throw cheery picked verses around, here are two for them… “Woe to you, [self-righteous] scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which look beautiful on the outside, but inside are full of dead men’s bones and everything unclean. This is a word of divine judgment, of abject misery that portends a final, miserable end. “You serpents, you brood of vipers, how are you to escape being sentenced to hell?” ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2017, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/10303 "2017-08-18T15:22:17Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > The only circumstances where I would actively wish for an assassination of an American President are, as I’ve said before, if this person attempted to declare Martial Law to extend their rule, stop elections, impeachments or other measures against them. In which case I would hope and pray that the Secret Service members on the scene would look at each other and put a bullet in his/her brain. > > I don’t even want Trump to die in office. That would be the easy way out. I want him to suffer the humiliation of impeachment and imprisonment for his many crimes. This. I want him to die in prison. No pardon, no “step down to avoid blah blah blah”, federal prison until he dies in there. Too bad they don’t do bread and water and hard labor anymore (or DO they). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=514) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=516)