# The Trump Administration: A Clusterfuck in the Making **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 7, 2016, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070 "2016-12-07T00:25:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 600
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2017, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/11984 "2017-10-07T12:39:44Z")
Can we only hope for the Spanish Inquisition showing up for crimes against the language? ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2017, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/11985 "2017-10-07T13:02:43Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > “Sir, before you go out and address the room, here’s the correct pronunciation of Puerto Rico. Might be a nice gesture for Hispanic Herit–” > “Oh, you’re gonna tell me, Hector? You’re name’s Hector, right? Am I pronouncing that? Hec-TOR? Or is it a Hake-TAR?” > “My name’s Tom.” > “Hake-TAR, I don’t know if you’re aware of this, but I spent some time down there with the Spaniards recently. I can pronounce it just fine. Pu-_hay_-to Reek-O! Pu-_hay_-to Reek-O! The Spaniards love me. This crowd should get a kick out of this.” “Um…sir… they’re _Hispanics_, not _Spaniards_, and in fact, they’re **American citizens** , ya know?” ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2017, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/11986 "2017-10-07T13:24:02Z")
Did El Pendejo Grande wave his arm spastically while doing his Speedy Gonzalez impersonation? ---
**Author:** ![Catamount](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/catamount/32/2840_2.png) [@Catamount](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Catamount)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2017, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/11987 "2017-10-07T14:02:26Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > Can we only hope for the Spanish Inquisition showing up for crimes against the language? I don’t expect it to happen. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2017, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/11988 "2017-10-07T15:46:39Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Did El Pendejo Grande wave his arm spastically while doing his Speedy Gonzalez impersonation? [José Jimenez] I hope not. [/jj] ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2017, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/11989 "2017-10-07T16:28:55Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > Why in the world would this need to be investigated?? > > We don’t know if they profited or not. If the debts are actually forgiven and the debts wiped clean, the bond holders very well may end up getting nothing. > They’re taking the extra risk (higher yield) because they think the risk/reward profile is worth it. > > You do realize that’s why the yields jumped, right? > > Ditto the shares. I don’t specifically know the companies in question, but I’m guessing they insure the bonds in question. > They’d take losses if the debts were wiped out. > > Now, if this was a report of someone shorting the shares early, or selling the bonds early before prices fell, as possible evidence of front-running or something, you might have a ghost of a point. > > But investors pricing in new information is exactly what investors are supposed to do. And by investors, I mean the guys running your mutual funds, your 401(k) etc. > > Saying this ‘needs to be investigated’ is beyond stupid. Puerto Rican bonds have been in trouble for years, PR hasn’t been making the payments, PR is legally prohibited from declaring bankruptcy, hedge funds have sued, courts have ordered PR to hold to a fiscal austerity plan, PR has refused to comply. The storm is but the latest wrinkle in a long saga, Trump was even tweeting about it back in the spring. John Oliver did a great piece on it it’s easy to find on You Tube, I have previously posted this link. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/Tt-mpuR_QHQ/maxresdefault.jpg "Puerto Rico: Last Week Tonight with John Oliver (HBO)") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tt-mpuR_QHQ) My real concern is that Trump will manage to wipe out Puerto Rico’s debt - by using taxpayer money to pay it off to the investment companies that own it. And the mainstream investment funds, for the most part, sold off their positions in PR bonds a few years ago and a lot of this instruments are held by predatory funds that are sort of the collection agencies of investment funds, they buy distressed assets then use heavy handed techniques including lots of lawsuits to try and collect. A fund like this that owned a lot of Argentinian debt went to court, got a judgment and seized a freaking warship once. They don’t screw around, I would not be surprised if they tried to seize disaster relief money, ---
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2017, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/11990 "2017-10-07T20:25:09Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > Puerto Rican bonds have been in trouble for years, PR hasn’t been making the payments, PR is legally prohibited from declaring bankruptcy, hedge funds have sued, courts have ordered PR to hold to a fiscal austerity plan, PR has refused to comply. Yep. Which is why they were already yielding 8% as it is. Last time I checked (it’s been a couple of months) yields were lower for sovereign debt from Mexico, Indonesia, Peru and Columbia. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2017, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/11991 "2017-10-07T20:45:45Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > Why in the world would this need to be investigated?? > … I assumed it would be obvious to even the most intelligence-challenged, that what I was suggesting was that Trump may have deliberately manipulated the market, permitting advance trades by himself or his associates using that insider knowledge–in this case, that a President was about to make a remark that would affect that market. But “never assume that a basic intelligence standard is met by _all_ readers” remains the most sensible strategy for posting here. : rolleyes : ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2017, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/11992 "2017-10-07T20:56:22Z")
One could just as easily assume that Il Douche just shoots his mouth off without any concern for consequences, for good or ill. Also, it would be hard to know, since if PR bonds turn to moldy shit, someone makes money. If they soar to the AAA level, someone else makes money. So, its not easy to know who will make money, but you can make a real good guess as to who is going to get fucked. Fluency in Spanish, for instance. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2017, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/11993 "2017-10-07T21:06:18Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > One could just as easily assume that Il Douche just shoots his mouth off without any concern for consequences, for good or ill. Absolutely, which is why it would have been smart of someone in Trump’s circle to suggest that he ‘offhandedly’ talk about wiping out the debt. Who would question the notion that a moron said something moronic?? No one! > [@](#): > > Also, it would be hard to know, since if PR bonds turn to moldy shit, someone makes money. If they soar to the AAA level, someone else makes money. So, its not easy to know who will make money, … As with any insider-trading investigation, it would be important to look at what was going on _in advance_ of the Presidential remark. Did someone in Trump’s circle take actions that resulted in large profits, due to the suddenly-falling price of the P.R. bonds–almost as if they knew ahead of time what the President would say? That sort of thing. In any case, I’d be surprised if the Mueller team didn’t include someone who’ll be taking a look at the situation. ---
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2017, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/11994 "2017-10-07T23:58:42Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > I assumed it would be obvious to even the most intelligence-challenged, that what I was suggesting was that Trump may have deliberately manipulated the market, permitting advance trades by himself or his associates using that insider knowledge–in this case, that a President was about to make a remark that would affect that market. > > But “never assume that a basic intelligence standard is met by _all_ readers” remains the most sensible strategy for posting here. : rolleyes : Your snark would be a lot funnier if you weren’t so full of shit. Here’s what you said: > [@](#): > > This needs to be examined. Who bought up bonds at the much-lowered price? Who traded in shares of the affected bond insurers? You wanted to know who had bought the bonds _after_ the comment. You clearly had no understanding that what would have been more important would be any activity _before_ the comment. And normally that would be investigated as a matter of course anyway - any unusual volatility in the market, regulators will look at activity in those and related securities well before and after the volatility started. Markets move all the time, sometime dramatically, when they interpret some comment from politicians. I’m as anti-Trump as you can possibly get, but saying this particular comment is evidence of some insider trading deal to get people rich is silly. It’d be investigated in any event - something you think a businessman like Trump would know, even if he’s a fucking moron - and there are far less obvious ways to try and manipulate the market (less successful than you might think unless it’s a very small, illiquid market). > [@](#): > > Did someone in Trump’s circle take actions that resulted in large profits, due to the suddenly-falling price of the P.R. bonds- Well, the comments sure wouldn’t be aimed at helping out the people currently holding the bonds, would it. And as **Ann Hedonia** noted, the bonds in question were already in rough shape - the market priced them as riskier than bonds issued by Mexico, even though PR is a US territory, and that was before the mother of all hurricanes wiped out the island. The country has effectively filed for bankruptcy earlier this year, there’s a very good chance bond holders will end up being forced to take major haircuts, or the debt could be forgiven completely - there’s a reason the bonds fell sharply on the Orange One’s comments. ‘I’d really love to get into this PR bonds position if the price was just cheaper’ said nobody ever. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2017, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/11995 "2017-10-08T00:04:12Z")
To add on to what **DragonAsh** said, bonds can be shorted, but it isn’t as easy as shorting equities, and very, very difficult on distressed debt. If someone did that leading into statements, it would stand out readily. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2017, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/11996 "2017-10-08T15:53:32Z")
Well, this ruined my morning. Sadly, I believe it. Trump is on track to win reelection > **[Opinion | Trump is on track to win reelection](https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/trump-is-on-track-to-win-reelection/2017/10/06/91cd2af0-aa15-11e7-850e-2bdd1236be5d_story.html)** > > Don’t be fooled by his approval ratings. > [@](#): > > …Trump’s support has largely remained durable with a core group of supporters. These are the voters Trump was referring to when he said that he could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot someone and he wouldn’t lose votes. There is another group of Trump followers whose support isn’t unequivocal, but they have stayed with him because they still believe he will blow up the system and bring about real change. > > In order to maintain and nurture his base, Trump will continue to embrace conflict, which will probably solidify his historically low approval ratings. Trump cannot win a two-person race this way. But he can prevail in a field with strong independent candidates on the ballot. > > So for Democrats and others who want to beat Trump, unifying behind one candidate will be essential. … Emphasis added. The Democrats have to identify a candidate and get behind him. [I don’t believe it can be a woman.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=834250) ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2017, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/11997 "2017-10-08T16:23:46Z")
Another outbreak of brutal honesty: > [@Sen. Bob Corker](#): > > It’s a shame the White House has become an adult day care center. Someone obviously missed their shift this morning. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2017, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/11998 "2017-10-08T16:40:03Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Well, this ruined my morning. Sadly, I believe it. > > Trump is on track to win reelection > [http://wapo.st/2y1AReW](http://wapo.st/2y1AReW) > > Emphasis added. The Democrats have to identify a candidate and get behind him. [I don’t believe it can be a woman.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=834250) I wouldn’t lose too much sleep over this. In terms of astute political insight, “unite behind a single candidate” is second only to “get more votes than your opponent.” ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2017, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/11999 "2017-10-08T17:03:55Z")
So, next time we get _six_ million illegal aliens to vote Dem? ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2017, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/12000 "2017-10-08T17:31:19Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > So, next time we get _six_ million illegal aliens to vote Dem? Just picture enough _legal_ Puerto Rican immigrants flooding Florida, and voting Democratic, to flip the state blue. The irony would be delicious. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2017, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/12001 "2017-10-08T18:31:14Z")
Mike Pence went to the San Francisco 49er/Indianapolis Colts game today and left when players knelt during the Anthem. Trump tweeted that it was planned ahead of time that Pence would leave if any of the players knelt. If Trump would shut up about it, it would probably eventually stop. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2017, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/12002 "2017-10-08T18:34:41Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > I wouldn’t lose too much sleep over this. In terms of astute political insight, “unite behind a single candidate” is second only to “get more votes than your opponent.” I don’t know what you mean. What _I_ mean is we don’t need another Bernie Sanders or other unlikely wannabe to run in order to make an ideological point and divide the Democratic vote. ---
**Author:** ![JackieLikesVariety](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackielikesvariety/32/296_2.png) [@JackieLikesVariety](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JackieLikesVariety)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2017, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/12003 "2017-10-08T18:40:59Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > I don’t know what you mean. What _I_ mean is we don’t need another Bernie Sanders or other unlikely wannabe to run in order to make an ideological point and divide the Democratic vote. Bernie was not only viable, he was the best candidate and I not only would but I did vote for a woman [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=599) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=601)