# The Trump Administration: A Clusterfuck in the Making **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 7, 2016, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070 "2016-12-07T00:25:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 631
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2017, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/12605 "2017-10-20T16:47:44Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > Someone predisposed to think ill of Trump (and in case my posting record isn’t clear, I count myself among them) will interpret his line as something callous and monstrously insensitive. > > Someone predisposed favorably would interpret it in the sense that Kelly intended: the deceased was a hero who willingly gave his all in service to his country. A sensitive person would have mentioned the name of the deceased. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2017, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/12606 "2017-10-20T16:54:22Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > Someone predisposed to think ill of Trump (and in case my posting record isn’t clear, I count myself among them) will interpret his line as something callous and monstrously insensitive. > > Someone predisposed favorably would interpret it in the sense that Kelly intended: the deceased was a hero who willingly gave his all in service to his country. > > The fact that the statement could be interpreted either way, is what makes it a stretch. Seriously, so much garbage comes out of Trump’s mouth that is beyond ambiguity, we don’t need to cherry-pick. Someone who “has a good brain” and “all the best words” wouldn’t make such a horribly blunt statement like that. Mary Catherine Hamm, a while ago on CNN, offered a far better example of how it could have been phrased. (Paraphrased because I didn’t catch the exact wording) “It’s inspiring that we produce remarkable young men who, in the face of giving their lives in defense of their country and comrades, continue to move forward.” ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2017, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/12607 "2017-10-20T16:54:34Z")
> [@Bayard](#): > > even absent a major war, the POTUS is still a busy person Mr. Trump is not a busy person. Given his combination of ignorance, incompetence and intemperance, it is just as well that he ignores his duties. [http://trumpgolfcount.com/](http://trumpgolfcount.com/) > [@](#): > > Days Trump has spent at Mar a Lago: > 25 > Cost of flights to Mar a Lago (7 so far):\* > ~$14,392,000 > Days Trump has spent at Bedminster: > 33 > Cost of flights to Bedminster (11 so far):\* > ~$8,481,000 > Trump has visited his clubs once every this many days since his inauguration: > 4.1 > Projected visits to golf clubs in four years: > 358 > Projected visits in eight years: > 717 > Total times Obama golfed during his eight year Presidency: > 306 ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2017, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/12608 "2017-10-20T17:01:55Z")
We all know Trump is a horrible communicator and he demonstrated that here. But it’s his own fault that this was such a big deal. If he had just quietly made these calls to the families like past presidents have done, it wouldn’t have been newsworthy. He still would have screwed up the calls but people would have said “Okay, that’s just Trump. He’s a poor speaker. What are you gonna do? But he tried, bless his heart.” Instead, Trump set out to make these calls an event. He announced he was going to make these calls. He said he was going to do a better job at making these calls than any past president has ever done. He said “Everyone watch me while I make these calls and admire me for what a great job I will do at it.” And then he screwed up the calls. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2017, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/12609 "2017-10-20T17:11:34Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > Mr. Trump is not a busy person. Given his combination of ignorance, incompetence and intemperance, it is just as well that he ignores his duties. > > [http://trumpgolfcount.com/](http://trumpgolfcount.com/) Point taken. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2017, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/12610 "2017-10-20T17:32:39Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > Someone predisposed to think ill of Trump (and in case my posting record isn’t clear, I count myself among them) will interpret his line as something callous and monstrously insensitive. > > Someone predisposed favorably would interpret it in the sense that Kelly intended: the deceased was a hero who willingly gave his all in service to his country. > > The fact that the statement could be interpreted either way, is what makes it a stretch. Seriously, so much garbage comes out of Trump’s mouth that is beyond ambiguity, we don’t need to cherry-pick. What actually matters is how the grieving family interpreted it, not how you or I did, nor how trump intended it, or how kelly rehearsed it with him. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2017, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/12611 "2017-10-20T18:04:06Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > The only question is whether Kelly formally disgraced himself yesterday, or whether it officially happened when he took the job. The latter. I do sympathize - the job he really took on was the one of defending the country, a job he’s devoted his life to, but this time it amounted to keeping Trump isolated with his finger off the button. I’m sure he knew it would be personally debasing at times. I’m in favor of letting him off the hook for it, knowing the situation can only get much worse if he’s out. Thanks for your continuing service, General. Even if we all feel dirty for it. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2017, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/12612 "2017-10-20T18:04:22Z")
Mr. Trump fancies himself plainspoken, direct, no nonsense. No gloss, no gauzy sentiments. Somebody wrote a “formal” speech for him, and he didn’t use it, preferring his own. The speech probably had something like brave young people stepping up to face danger. As information, that is very much like “knowing what he was getting into.” But the purpose was not to impart information, the bereaved already know he is dead, already know that he volunteered, they are not informed. The purpose is a gesture of comfort and shared sorrow, the formal tone of the remarks should reflect that dignity, not turn it into a “matter of fact” of the bleeding obvious. Brevity is for humor, not for comfort. The formal and sombre words are expected, they matter, they signify, that are not merely an embellishment. He seems to believe that he has an unerring instinct, despite the failures that plop! splat! on the ground like the droppings of flying pigs. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2017, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/12613 "2017-10-20T18:21:27Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Mr. Trump fancies himself plainspoken, direct, no nonsense. No gloss, no gauzy sentiments. Somebody wrote a “formal” speech for him, and he didn’t use it, preferring his own. The speech probably had something like brave young people stepping up to face danger. As information, that is very much like “knowing what he was getting into.” > > But the purpose was not to impart information, the bereaved already know he is dead, already know that he volunteered, they are not informed. The purpose is a gesture of comfort and shared sorrow, the formal tone of the remarks should reflect that dignity, not turn it into a “matter of fact” of the bleeding obvious. Brevity is for humor, not for comfort. The formal and sombre words are expected, they matter, they signify, that are not merely an embellishment. > > He seems to believe that he has an unerring instinct, despite the failures that plop! splat! on the ground like the droppings of flying pigs. I was looking for the story, but could not find it, abut the gold star wife that hit bush when he talked to her, and then he hugged her while she cried. Now, not big fan of bush, but he handled that well. Can you imagine if a gold star family member hit trump? He’d hit back 10 times as hard. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2017, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/12614 "2017-10-20T18:22:31Z")
[Who needs congressional approval?](http://www.politico.com/story/2017/10/20/trump-nominees-working-senate-approval-243972)[Not Donald Trump!](https://news.vice.com/story/trump-nominees-thathavent-been-senate-confirmed-are-working-anyway) > [@](#): > > President Trump has complained the Senate’s taking too long to confirm his nominees for federal agency posts. So it seems, for some of them at least, he’s found a solution: Let them work without going through the standard congressional approval process. > [@](#): > > The nominees in question are:[ul]Susan Bodine, nominated for the head of enforcement position at the Environmental Protection Agency but not yet approved, who’s been acting as an adviser to EPA Administrator Scott Pruitt. (Bodine was a partner at a law firm that represents polluters before her appointment to work at the EPA.)[/ul] > [ul]Michael Dourson, nominated in July to be the head of the EPA’s chemical pollution office, is also currently advising Pruitt on chemical safety. (Dourson, for the last several decades, has advised some of the chemical companies he will be tasked with regulating as part of his role at the EPA.)[/ul] > [ul]Trump appointed Mary Waters in July to serve as the assistant secretary of state for legislative affairs at the State Department. She’s been doing the job she’s hasn’t yet gotten Senate approval for for months already, according to multiple anonymous sources that spoke to Politico. (Waters served in President George W. Bush’s Department of Agriculture.)[/ul] > [ul]Russell Vought is Trump’s nominee for deputy director of the Office of Management and Budget. He hasn’t been approved yet, but he’s already a senior adviser to OMB chief Mick Mulvaney. A White House official even told Politico that Vought is acting as the de facto deputy director of the agency. (Vought took heat from Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders during a confirmation hearing in June for writing an op-ed claiming that Muslims “do not know God because they have rejected Jesus Christ his Son, and they stand condemned.”)[/ul] Or does he? > [@](#): > > But Trump’s flouting of the Senate approval process could be a violation of an obscure 1998 law called the Vacancies Act, passed after President Bill Clinton tried to put a Justice Department official in a post doing work very similar to a post that required Senate approval, after the Senate had already rejected him for that post. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2017, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/12615 "2017-10-20T18:24:35Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > What actually matters is how the grieving family interpreted it, not how you or I did, nor how trump intended it, or how kelly rehearsed it with him. And of course the political hack that was present during the call didn’t steer the grieving family’s interpretation at all… Right? “It’s amazing,” the Florida Democrat [said with a laugh](https://hotair.com/archives/2017/10/20/congresswomans-response-kelly-ill-tell-kids-im-rockstar-now/) when asked by 7News in Miami for her reaction to John Kelly’s impassioned rebuke yesterday afternoon over her attack on Trump over the call. “I’ll have to tell my kids that **I’m a rockstar now.** ” Ah. Her purpose is achieved. “Rockstar”, laughing, at the expense of the grieving family. But then what would you expect from a Democrat? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2017, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/12616 "2017-10-20T18:28:28Z")
Is \*that \*what Hannity is telling you guys to say now? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2017, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/12617 "2017-10-20T18:37:39Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Ah. Her purpose is achieved. “Rockstar”, laughing, at the expense of the grieving family. But then what would you expect from a Democrat? Spare us the phony sympathy. I’m sure you’re delighted that Trump put the widow in her place. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2017, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/12618 "2017-10-20T18:37:41Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > And of course the political hack that was present during the call didn’t steer the grieving family’s interpretation at all… Right? > > “It’s amazing,” the Florida Democrat [said with a laugh](https://hotair.com/archives/2017/10/20/congresswomans-response-kelly-ill-tell-kids-im-rockstar-now/) when asked by 7News in Miami for her reaction to John Kelly’s impassioned rebuke yesterday afternoon over her attack on Trump over the call. “I’ll have to tell my kids that **I’m a rockstar now.** ” > > Ah. Her purpose is achieved. “Rockstar”, laughing, at the expense of the grieving family. But then what would you expect from a Democrat? Holy fuck; did you think this made sense when you posted it? :smack: Oh wait; I forgot it was you for a second. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2017, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/12619 "2017-10-20T18:42:48Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > And of course the political hack that was present during the call didn’t steer the grieving family’s interpretation at all… Right? I didn’t think that John Kelly had anything to do with it. > [@](#): > > “It’s amazing,” the Florida Democrat [said with a laugh](https://hotair.com/archives/2017/10/20/congresswomans-response-kelly-ill-tell-kids-im-rockstar-now/) when asked by 7News in Miami for her reaction to John Kelly’s impassioned rebuke yesterday afternoon over her attack on Trump over the call. “I’ll have to tell my kids that **I’m a rockstar now.** ” > > Ah. Her purpose is achieved. “Rockstar”, laughing, at the expense of the grieving family. But then what would you expect from a Democrat? That’s as stupid now as it was the first 80 times you trumpeted it out. You do realize that she is reacting to the absurdity of trump and his lies, right? He was the one using grieving families for political purposes, even before he called them, with his news conference bragging about how much he liked to make the call. He was the one politicised it when he lied to brag that other presidents didn’t call. He’s the one who threw Kelly and what his experience of losing a child was like into the political arena. He’s the one who got Kelly to turn around and lie about Wilson’s speech at the FBI building dedication. And you eat it all up straight out of their ass like it’s soft serve ice cream. At least wipe off your fucking face after you’ve had your fill. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2017, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/12620 "2017-10-20T18:54:47Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Fuck John Kelly. He goes on stage and defends the indefensible. How DARE that congresswoman listen in on the same phone conversation that he himself listened in on! Fuck you, hypocrite. Donald “bravely” made the calls? You mean after nearly two weeks of not even acknowledging their deaths? You were “stunned” that this same congresswoman made a speech at an FBI building dedication and took some credit and getting funding for it? You fucking whine about THAT on the same day your pinhead boss was giving himself a perfect grade for his pitiful handling of the Puerto Rico hurricane? You’re fucking outraged at a personal friend of a Gold Star family calling out your sexual predator boss for his hamfisted condolence call, yet you had no outrage for your draft-dodging boss attacking the Khan family last year? You want us to suck your dick because of your military service but you serve under a guy who dodged the draft using bone spurs in his heels as an excuse? Then you take questions from the press, but only those who know Gold Star families? If the Khans had been there, would you have taken their question about why your psychopathic boss savagely attacked them last year? Fuck you a thousand times over and I hope you enjoy wiping the ass of your toddler boss. Subscribe. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2017, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/12621 "2017-10-20T18:57:38Z")
Last night, Richard Spencer made a speech at the University of Florida. Three supporters leaving the speech got into an altercation with protesters, culminating in one of the supporters shooting at the protesters. No one was harmed. The three Spencer supporters were arrested. [http://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/william-colton-fears-tyler-tenbrink-arrested-after-white-nationalist-richard-spencer-speech](http://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/william-colton-fears-tyler-tenbrink-arrested-after-white-nationalist-richard-spencer-speech) I’m putting this here because I can’t be bothered to start an Omnibus White Supremacist Rants thread, and because there’s essentially no daylight between white supremacists and the Trump administration. Can someone get Trump to comment on the incident? I want him to tell us that the white supremacists are “very fine people” again. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2017, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/12622 "2017-10-20T19:06:33Z")
> [@Bayard](#): > > Last night, Richard Spencer made a speech at the University of Florida. Three supporters leaving the speech got into an altercation with protesters, culminating in one of the supporters shooting at the protesters. No one was harmed. The three Spencer supporters were arrested. > > [3 Charged With Attempted Murder After Allegedly Firing On Spencer Protesters - TPM – Talking Points Memo](http://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/william-colton-fears-tyler-tenbrink-arrested-after-white-nationalist-richard-spencer-speech) > > I’m putting this here because I can’t be bothered to start an Omnibus White Supremacist Rants thread, and because there’s essentially no daylight between white supremacists and the Trump administration. Can someone get Trump to comment on the incident? I want him to tell us that the white supremacists are “very fine people” again. The real crime is that Spencer’s free speech rights weren’t respected by the hooligans who were shouting him down. Also, it’s a complete travesty that NFL owner’s aren’t forcing their players to properly respect the flag during the pre-game anthem. Disgraceful! ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2017, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/12623 "2017-10-20T19:17:42Z")
View from The Right. This is how the Other Side sees Der Trumpster and his unprecedented level of brilliant accomplishments: > [@](#): > > …Since he was inaugurated, the economy has added over one million private sector jobs, consumer confidence has risen to the highest level in 13 years, manufacturing hit a 20-year high, and the Dow Jones Industrial Average has hit 45 record highs and topped 23,000 for the first time in history. > > He has enacted more legislation (he has signed more than 50 bills into law) and signed more executive orders to date than any chief executive in half a century. > > He has made good on his vow to protect American workers by renegotiating NAFTA, withdrawing from the job-killing Trans-Pacific Partnership and Paris climate accord, and ordering an investigation into China’s theft of U.S. intellectual property. > > He has restored integrity and accountability to the veterans administration, cutting wait time and expanding support for the men and women who risked their lives to defend our country. > > As promised, the president is restoring national security. He has ended the sequestration of funds for the Defense Department, begun rebuilding our military, and overseen the collapse of ISIS in Syria and Iraq. > > The Trump administration has achieved a massive reduction in illegal immigration, arresting nearly 100,000 criminal illegal aliens and deporting over 52,000, a 30 percent increase over the same period last year. Illegal border crossings are down over 41 percent. > > He has unshackled America’s energy resources, expediting permits and approvals processes for natural gas terminals, pipelines and coal, oil and gas development. > > And those are just some of the accomplishments… [Cite](https://a.msn.com/r/2/AAtKQrq?m=en-us) ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2017, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/12624 "2017-10-20T19:39:50Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > The latter. I do sympathize - the job he really took on was the one of defending the country, a job he’s devoted his life to, but this time it amounted to keeping Trump isolated with his finger off the button. I’m sure he knew it would be personally debasing at times. I’m in favor of letting him off the hook for it, knowing the situation can only get much worse if he’s out. > > Thanks for your continuing service, General. Even if we all feel dirty for it. He knew what he signed up for. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=630) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=632)