# The Trump Administration: A Clusterfuck in the Making **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 7, 2016, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070 "2016-12-07T00:25:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 635
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2017, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/12685 "2017-10-21T17:59:49Z")
[Trump announces intent to release some leftover Kennedy-assassination documents.](http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/21/politics/trump-jfk-documents/index.html) Clever, I have to admit - his base will enjoy revitalizing one of their favorite conspiracy theories (whether Trump actually follows through or not) and hopefully the distraction will outlast the current gold-star embarrassment. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2017, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/12686 "2017-10-21T18:12:03Z")
A lot of people are saying that Crooked Hillary was involved in the assassination. Maybe she was, maybe she wasn’t. I don’t know, it’s something I’ve heard. You tell me. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2017, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/12687 "2017-10-21T18:21:10Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > [Trump announces intent to release some leftover Kennedy-assassination documents.](http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/21/politics/trump-jfk-documents/index.html) > > Clever, I have to admit - his base will enjoy revitalizing one of their favorite conspiracy theories (whether Trump actually follows through or not) and hopefully the distraction will outlast the current gold-star embarrassment. It was a scheduled thing, pre-Trump. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2017, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/12688 "2017-10-21T18:36:11Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > It was a scheduled thing, pre-Trump. Yet another “I will take the whole credit” for something he was not involved with. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2017, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/12689 "2017-10-21T19:02:24Z")
Now. Universe, I know I haven’t been a very good pantheist. But if you could just work things out so that Trump’s daddy is suspiciously prominent in those files, I will…ah…be a _much_ better person! Soon as the giggling fits pass. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2017, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/12690 "2017-10-21T19:28:46Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Now. Universe, I know I haven’t been a very good pantheist. But if you could just work things out so that Trump’s daddy is suspiciously prominent in those files, I will…ah…be a _much_ better person! Soon as the giggling fits pass. Or maybe both Cruz and Trump’s dads were working together. Some people (ok, just me) are Jes’ Axin’ Questions… ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2017, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/12691 "2017-10-21T19:30:59Z")
> [@digs](#): > > Or maybe both Cruz and Trump’s dads were working together. > > Some people (ok, just me) are Jes’ Axin’ Questions… I bet trump offered Cruz $25,000 to stand on the grass knoll for a bit. I hear the check is in the mail. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2017, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/12692 "2017-10-21T19:34:43Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > [Trump announces intent to release some leftover Kennedy-assassination documents.](http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/21/politics/trump-jfk-documents/index.html) > > Clever, I have to admit - his base will enjoy revitalizing one of their favorite conspiracy theories (whether Trump actually follows through or not) and hopefully the distraction will outlast the current gold-star embarrassment. > [@VinylTurnip](#): > > A lot of people are saying that Crooked Hillary was involved in the assassination. Maybe she was, maybe she wasn’t. I don’t know, it’s something I’ve heard. You tell me. > [@digs](#): > > Or maybe both Cruz and Trump’s dads were working together. > > Some people (ok, just me) are Jes’ Axin’ Questions… Nah. **Vinyl Turnip** has it right: it will be Hillary’s fault, and Obama’s. Even though Obama was only two years old, he was a bright toddler, and he had to have something to do with it. Hillary was in high school, so she DEFINITELY was involved. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2017, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/12693 "2017-10-21T19:48:38Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Nah. **Vinyl Turnip** has it right: it will be Hillary’s fault, and Obama’s. Even though Obama was only two years old, he was a bright toddler, and he had to have something to do with it. Hillary was in high school, so she DEFINITELY was involved. She was a Goldwater Girl, after all. ---
**Author:** ![SaneBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e68b1a/32.png) [@SaneBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SaneBill)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2017, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/12694 "2017-10-21T20:01:24Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > She was a Goldwater Girl, after all. Wait, weren’t goldwater girls Russian ? ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2017, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/12695 "2017-10-21T20:19:09Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > This is what he fantasizes and laments. When minorities and women knew their place in American society and white conservative men ran things. It doesn’t matter that he has no personal experience with that generation. What matters is that he can sell the idea of the ‘good old days’ to other bigots, many of whom are even younger than he is. But they consistently gloss over one distinguishing feature of the 50’s and 60’s , the 91% top marginal income tax rate. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2017, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/12696 "2017-10-21T21:15:18Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > By flat out lying about the Congresswoman, Gen. Kelly showed he’s no better than Trump. Yes. We all hoped that Kelly was a man of integrity. Now we know that he is not. > [@Aspenglow](#): > > … I am also uncomfortable with military men acting in roles at the highest level of government. We’re supposed to _avoid_ that in this country. These are civilian posts. Coupled with the new edict from on high that it is “inappropriate” to question the veracity of a four star general, I am even more unnerved with these men in their stations. Feels more like a Putin style government every day. We know that about a quarter of Americans would welcome the end of democracy and the rule of law, so great is their craving for the Wise Father who will keep them safe from the ‘other.’ But would the rest of us be able to resist successfully? At some point, these people without conscience will believe they can get away with a power grab. If they believe that the National Guard and local law enforcement will fall into line–given the pretext of “a massive terrorist attack”–then they will go for it. I’m worried about tonight. Five Presidents in one place; the video Trump made, that was supposed to be played tonight, was instead played this afternoon. Is that because the White House knew that something would happen tonight to disrupt the schedule, and Trump really wanted his video to be seen? Yes, this is paranoid, but it’s also a fact that those in a position to shut down the Internet and the free press, and jail opponents who might have the means to oppose a power grab, are without scruple. > [@Merneith](#): > > And you all know how I feel about Donald Trump, but in truth, I would have assumed that it was the Chief of Staff’s responsibility to organize things like getting the President to sign letters of condolence. The CoS should have had a draft that Trump could sign the very next day. I would assume even with eloquent writers like Obama, that organizing correspondence is still the staff officer’s job. > > I wouldn’t have expected the President - any President - to personally write all the letters, because if shit goes pear shaped, it’s too big a job. But getting the Communications office to write the letters and then getting the letters in front of the President is the kind of coordinating that a CoS is responsible for. Reporting by Roll Call reveals that the Trump White House didn’t even have a list of those service members killed during Trump’s tenure: > [@](#): > > … In the hours after President Donald Trump said on an Oct. 17 radio broadcast that he had contacted nearly every family that had lost a military servicemember this year, the White House was hustling to learn from the Pentagon the identities and contact information for those families, according to an internal Defense Department email. > > The email exchange, which has not been previously reported, shows that senior White House aides were aware on the day the president made the statement that it was not accurate — but that they should try to make it accurate as soon as possible, given the gathering controversy. > > Not only had the president not contacted virtually all the families of military personnel killed this year, the White House did not even have an up-to-date list of those who had been killed. … [https://www.rollcall.com/news/after-trump-claim-white-house-still-lacked-casualty-list](https://www.rollcall.com/news/after-trump-claim-white-house-still-lacked-casualty-list) ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2017, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/12697 "2017-10-21T22:07:00Z")
> [@D\_Odds](#): > > I share your discomfort. However, this nation has a long, often good, history with the highest levels of military men moving into the highest levels of government. > > Kelly and Mattis have shit sandwiches of a job, and Kelly thought peeing on it might make it taste better. I really don’t know if he’s trying to steer the Titanic away from the iceberg even as the Captain keeps steering back towards it, or if he’s just along for the ride and making sure he’s got a place on the lifeboat. But I won’t disqualify anyone who has a lifetime of serving their country from continuing to serve in the highest levels of government. To this independent veteran, it sounds similarly (though not as intensely) shrill as the right’s bitchings and moanings about President Obama’s policies and picks. The problem isn’t that we have former military generals in high levels of the executive branch – the office itself was basically a general’s job. The real problem is the lack of confidence in institutions that are designed to check the powers of the executive branch, and the relentless attack on these institutions by this Executive and others who frankly seem to have an authoritarian worldview. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2017, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/12698 "2017-10-21T22:08:18Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > We know that about a quarter of Americans would welcome the end of democracy and the rule of law, so great is their craving for the Wise Father who will keep them safe from the ‘other.’ But would the rest of us be able to resist successfully? > > At some point, these people without conscience will believe they can get away with a power grab. If they believe that the National Guard and local law enforcement will fall into line–given the pretext of “a massive terrorist attack”–then they will go for it. > > I’m worried about tonight. Five Presidents in one place; the video Trump made, that was supposed to be played tonight, was instead played this afternoon. Is that because the White House knew that something would happen tonight to disrupt the schedule, and Trump really wanted his video to be seen? > > Yes, this is paranoid, but it’s also a fact that those in a position to shut down the Internet and the free press, and jail opponents who might have the means to oppose a power grab, are without scruple. I’ll join you in that paranoid boat. It does make me wonder where [this](https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2017/10/20/presidential-executive-order-amending-executive-order-13223) fits into that scenario. Partial text of Presidential Executive Order Amending Executive Order 13223: > [@](#): > > By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, including the National Emergencies Act (50 U.S.C. 1601 et seq.), and in furtherance of the objectives of Proclamation 7463 of September 14, 2001 (Declaration of National Emergency by Reason of Certain Terrorist Attacks), which declared a national emergency by reason of the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001, in New York and Pennsylvania and against the Pentagon, and the continuing and immediate threat of further attacks on the United States, and in order to provide the Secretary of Defense additional authority to manage personnel requirements in a manner consistent with the authorization provided in Executive Order 13223 of September 14, 2001 (Ordering the Ready Reserve of the Armed Forces to Active Duty and Delegating Certain Authorities to the Secretary of Defense and the Secretary of Transportation), it is hereby ordered as follows: > > Section 1. Amendment to Executive Order 13223. Section 1 of Executive Order 13223 is amended by adding at the end: **“The authorities available for use during a national emergency under sections 688 and 690 of title 10, United States Code, are also invoked and made available, according to their terms, to the Secretary concerned, subject in the case of the Secretaries of the Army, Navy, and Air Force, to the direction of the Secretary of Defense.”** What this actually means is explained [here](https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/10/21/1708645/-Forget-the-war-of-words-the-EO-Trump-signed-Friday-night-anticipates-a-war-with-massive-casualties). But I’m not sure the author’s interpretation of what it means is the correct one. Could also mean retired forces can be pressed into service to control a “national emergency” on our own soil. The lack of fanfare in the signing of this order is… ominous, in this administration. I hate even thinking this way, but I have zero trust in Trump and his henchmen to do anything but follow their authoritarian inclinations. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2017, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/12699 "2017-10-21T22:13:29Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > Washington did a good job as president guiding a new nation with its new civil rights. Grant did a good job as president guiding the nation into recognizing new Black rights (and your country still has one hell of a long way to go on that issue). Ike did a good job as president advancing the nation’s civil rights. All of them had been senior generals, and all of them were exemplary presidents. > > That being said, have a look at totalitarian countries. Very often the key used by a wanna-be strongman is to have strong ties with military leaders who then support the wanna be into power and/or once in power then extend the rule indefinitely. > > Presidents per se are not the problem. Generals per se are not the problem. The problem only arises when a wanna-be strongman has ties with military leaders. Trump is a wanna-be strongman and he now has a tie with a military leader who has chosen to bolster Trump. That is not a good thing, for Trump is a bad king. Perfectly said, and far better than I said it. > [@D\_Odds](#): > > I share your discomfort. However, this nation has a long, often good, history with the highest levels of military men moving into the highest levels of government. > > Kelly and Mattis have shit sandwiches of a job, and Kelly thought peeing on it might make it taste better. I really don’t know if he’s trying to steer the Titanic away from the iceberg even as the Captain keeps steering back towards it, or if he’s just along for the ride and making sure he’s got a place on the lifeboat. But I won’t disqualify anyone who has a lifetime of serving their country from continuing to serve in the highest levels of government. To this independent veteran, it sounds similarly (though not as intensely) shrill as the right’s bitchings and moanings about President Obama’s policies and picks. I’m not for disqualifying people who have a lifetime of serving their country from continuing to serve in the highest levels of government, either. But as **Muffin** stated so well, a bad king who wants to enlist them into his service as a means of carrying out his own nefarious intentions to impose his authoritarian rule worries me a lot. I honestly don’t think we’re far apart in our views at all. It’s _ **this** _ president with _ **this** _ administration that makes me so nervous. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2017, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/12700 "2017-10-21T22:30:58Z")
I had missed the fact of that amendment. Yikes. If T-admin people connive at the death of five presidents and hundreds or thousands of others, and through their position of power are able to quash all investigations into the matter—and through this Executive Order and other powers of the Executive office are able to silence all dissent and physically restrain (or worse) all those in the military or law enforcement who question the situation and could otherwise oppose the power grab… …in that situation, given that about 25% of the US population would welcome a police state and another 25% would consider it their lot in life to adjust to one without demur… …given all that, could the fascists be stopped? All our dependence would be on Canada and other armed democracy-loving nations, I suspect. And they’d have reason to oppose a fully-totalitarian USA, beyond political philosophy: a fully-totalitarian USA would be a belligerent, empire-craving USA. China’s government, as authoritarian as it is itself is, would certainly exert itself if the alternative were American territorial aggression. …well, this is getting wildly speculative. But in some ways it doesn’t feel all that wild, because we know that Trump and his closest advisers are authoritarians at heart, and not overly burdened with anything in the way of principles or honor. Here’s hoping the security at the concert, tonight, is ample, extremely alert, and good at their jobs. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2017, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/12701 "2017-10-21T22:47:01Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > It was a scheduled thing, pre-Trump. Very true, but Donnie Two-Scoops could choose to defer the release. Is this the first time these papers are approaching release, and did previous President’s defer? (Honest question, I don’t know) ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2017, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/12702 "2017-10-21T23:53:56Z")
Is Seb Gorka trying to start a war with China? He went on Fox Business and claimed that North Korea is a puppet of China. > ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2017, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/12703 "2017-10-22T00:16:08Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Is Seb Gorka trying to start a war with China? He went on Fox Business and claimed that North Korea is a puppet of China. > [x.com](https://twitter.com/FoxBusiness/status/921440925095571456) Doesn’t Gorka work for Putin (if indirectly)? Putin might believe he’d benefit if the US and China were engaged in hostilities, assuming those hostilities remained at the non-nuclear-weapons level–both conventional military, and cyberwar. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2017, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/12704 "2017-10-22T04:51:35Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > All our dependence would be on Canada and other armed democracy-loving nations, I suspect. For what it’s worth, I’d welcome Canada brain-draining the U.S. and accepting all your now-unwelcome college graduates. Just leave your guns at the border, please. Heck, to save on moving expenses, just redraw the border so Vermont and Washington/Oregon are on our side, and we’ll gradually negotiate future transfers of territory as the need arises. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=634) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=636)